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  1. #361  
    is the militia a thing, or a group of individuals?

    either way, you totally missed Groovy's point...
  2. #362  
    Quote Originally Posted by IGNTNUNLMTD View Post
    Well that doesn't scream passive censorship, does it?
    Yes, and in the same way posting it in the first place screamed "off topic" and "irrelevant".
  3. #363  
    this is extremely off of the 'off-topic', but both the right to bear arms and the separation of church and state have been modified/applied by the U.S. Supreme Court in far different ways than our founding fathers intended. With the right to bear arms, its obviously come along way since its origin as a necessity in relation to a well-regulated militia. With the separation of church and state (and freedom of religion), we have also gone far further than what the founders intended. The "founders" only prohibited the "establishment" of religion, ie. an official or at least state sanctioned religion. They were not against religion having a roll in government (as can be seen by the prayers which start all sessions of congress, etc). The current view of complete separation of church and state is relatively modern.
  4. #364  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    In what way are they not allowing it to be rebuilt? Please post links.
    http://indyposted.com/38342/greek-orthodox-church-at-ground-zero-destroyed-on-911-still-not-rebuilt/



    they should rebuild this church before they even consider the muslims.
    Last edited by switchedgear; 08/20/2010 at 03:53 PM.
  5. Micael's Avatar
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    #365  
    Yes, why are we *still* spinning around the legality of this? That was never the issue.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. #366  
    It speaks for itself, dems are making a statement to conservative america with this stance, all along I have been saying yes muslims have this right to build, but if they really are so concerned about being accepted as something other than radical, abusive and barbaric then they should reconsider their view on this subject.

    Mid term elections are coming up and in two years so are the primaries and I hope we do better than we did in the last elections.
  7. #367  
    Quote Originally Posted by switchedgear View Post
    http://indyposted.com/38342/greek-orthodox-church-at-ground-zero-destroyed-on-911-still-not-rebuilt/

    they should rebuild this church before they even consider the muslims.
    Keep in mind that I'm in the camp wishing they wouldn't build a mosque so close...

    But I could never support what you are saying. The "they" are different parties for each building and there is no connection.

    Each church has it's own site, funding, leadership, etc.

    It would be like someone telling you that you couldn't get a new house or car until someone up the street got to replace their crappy ones.

    just sayin.
  8. Micael's Avatar
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    #368  
    dems? Harry Reid and Howard Dean are both against the build.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  9. groovy's Avatar
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    #369  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    dems? Harry Reid and Howard Dean are both against the build.
    Of course, they're not actually being portrayed as bigots themselves. How could they be since they're Democrats? They're just being portrayed as pandering to bigots.
  10. #370  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    dems? Harry Reid and Howard Dean are both against the build.
    watch out for flying pigs now that I realize I'm in agreement with either of those idiots. Thanks for ruining my day!
  11. groovy's Avatar
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    #371  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    watch out for flying pigs now that I realize I'm in agreement with either of those idiots. Thanks for ruining my day!
    Don't feel bad. A person can't be wrong 100% of the time.
  12. #372  
    Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
  13. #373  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Yes, why are we *still* spinning around the legality of this? That was never the issue.
    it's way more than legality, they make it so hard for a church that was destroyed in the attacks to rebuild yet they push this mosque down our throats? What was this country founded on? I bet you think I'm going to say christianity, right? Wrong, it was founded on principles of helping, sharing, and moral obligation. I don't personally think the church has the whole corner on this.

    How about we erect a statue of ****** in NYC also, that way the ****'s can have their beliefs supported. Is that different because only 3000 Americans died as opposed to 6 million Jews?

    Can the old school hardcore KKK go up there and stand on the corner and preach their garbage?

    These people say they do not hold to the same radical beliefs that the others do but their head man is pushing for sharia law in the United States.
    http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/publius-forum/2010/08/why-is-ground-zero-mosque-connection-to-sharia-law-push-being-ignored.html

    So these same people that don't hold to radical beliefs have a man in their corner that believes in degrading women, stonings, public beheadings and murdering children. Sound likes it will go over great here!
  14. #374  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbdoinit View Post
    Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
    Yes, but now that pigs can fly there is going to be a lot of mess to clean up.
  15. #375  
    Quote Originally Posted by switchedgear View Post
    http://indyposted.com/38342/greek-orthodox-church-at-ground-zero-destroyed-on-911-still-not-rebuilt/



    they should rebuild this church before they even consider the muslims.
    Then "they" should propose a deal with which the church is willing to agree. As I've pointed out before, that church deal is a totally different issue, having to do with economic and logistical negotiations, and actually involves the construction around Ground Zero, unlike the Park51 project. {Jonathan}
    Prof. Jonathan I. Ezor
    Writer, PreCentral
    Past Palm Real Reviewer
    @webOSquire on Twitter
  16. #376  
    Quote Originally Posted by switchedgear View Post
    it's way more than legality, they make it so hard for a church that was destroyed in the attacks to rebuild yet they push this mosque down our throats? What was this country founded on? I bet you think I'm going to say christianity, right? Wrong, it was founded on principles of helping, sharing, and moral obligation. I don't personally think the church has the whole corner on this.

    How about we erect a statue of ****** in NYC also, that way the ****'s can have their beliefs supported. Is that different because only 3000 Americans died as opposed to 6 million Jews?

    Can the old school hardcore KKK go up there and stand on the corner and preach their garbage?

    These people say they do not hold to the same radical beliefs that the others do but their head man is pushing for sharia law in the United States.
    Why Is Ground Zero Mosque Connection to Sharia Law Push Being Ignored? - Publius Forum

    So these same people that don't hold to radical beliefs have a man in their corner that believes in degrading women, stonings, public beheadings and murdering children. Sound likes it will go over great here!
    See, this is the problem with this discussion: opponents like "switchedgear" accept accusations, theories and outright misstatements as fact. Case in point: the "pushing for sharia law in the United States."

    The site to which switchedgear points us (or rather, the site on which *it* relies) starts out with some bizarre conspiracy theory about the additional floors planned for Park51 (assuming they're for some nefarious purpose instead of, oh, I don't know, providing outside office rental space to help cover some of the operating costs of the building), then moves onto calling earlier versions of the Cordoba Initiative Web site "hidden" (did you know that even Amazon.com has more than a decade of similarly hidden sites?), then slides into unfounded conclusions about what is essentially a scholarly examination of how existing national laws of different *Islamic* countries correspond to or conflict with traditional Islamic law. Along the way, that site manages to insult our newest U.S. Supreme Court Justice, Elena Kagan (who, being Jewish, isn't likely to be pushing for Sharia law), and indirectly suggest that NewsCorp's (parent of Fox News) second largest shareholder, Alwaleed Bin Talal, is involved in the plot.

    And this is what passes for discourse? Sad. {Jonathan}
    Prof. Jonathan I. Ezor
    Writer, PreCentral
    Past Palm Real Reviewer
    @webOSquire on Twitter
  17. #377  
    I just learned some really interesting things...

    1. the current Miss USA is Muslim
    2. she competed in the swimsuit competition. when did the muslim dress code change?
    3. she has publicly stated that she thinks the mosque should not be built so close to ground zero.

    Folks, you can't make this stuff up!
  18. #378  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan I Ezor View Post
    See, this is the problem with this discussion: opponents like "switchedgear" ........And this is what passes for discourse? Sad. {Jonathan}
    I was always under the impression that "discourse" was achieved without talking down to people.

    I guess not.

    Sad.
  19. #379  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan I Ezor View Post
    Along the way, that site manages to insult our newest U.S. Supreme Court Justice, Elena Kagan (who, being Jewish, isn't likely to be pushing for Sharia law), and indirectly suggest that NewsCorp's (parent of Fox News) second largest shareholder, Alwaleed Bin Talal, is involved in the plot.
    yes, but how many degrees to Kevin Bacon?
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    #380  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    is the militia a thing, or a group of individuals?

    either way, you totally missed Groovy's point...
    A militia is an organized group of individuals... whether each person is considered his own militia is up for debate.

    I guess I did miss Groovy's point. He seemed to be comparing the Constitutional right to build the mosque without government intervention (which everyone agrees on) to the Constitutional right to bear arms, which not everyone agrees on. So I'm failing to see how they are analogous.

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