Page 15 of 22 FirstFirst ... 51011121314151617181920 ... LastLast
Results 281 to 300 of 423
  1. #281  
    what about the greek orthodox church that stood acrossed the street from the WTC That they will not let rebuild but they will let the muslims build a center nearby? It's all political. Just bad taste.
  2. #282  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    .... and we all know how fair and relevant to reality the Noble prize system is
    Subjective....
  3. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #283  
    Quote Originally Posted by darkzone View Post
    Subjective....
    Exactly!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4. #284  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Great, but we're not talking technically. They *are* in fact associated with 9/11, no mater how hard you'd wish to pretend otherwise. Emotionally, logically, historically, geographically; all connected.

    We'll give you "technically", though.
    So all Christians are "in fact" associated with the Westboro Church? All Catholics are "in fact" associated with pedophilia? All conservatives are "in fact" assosiated with Timothy McVay? I tend to not believe that...
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  5. Speebs's Avatar
    Posts
    297 Posts
    Global Posts
    403 Global Posts
    #285  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbdoinit View Post
    This isn't about our fear.

    This is about their lack of respect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    It's not fear. It's common sense, and an appreciation for other's feelings. Fear has nothing to do with it.

    (there may be more than a bit of anger, however. petty insensitive and flagrant disregard for other's feelings can cause that, imho)
    If fear has nothing to do with it, then why is it disrespectful? It IS about fear, because people find it offensive because theat FEAR that this place is going to breed extremism. If people weren't afraid of Islam, then they wouldn't think this was offensive. I don't see any way to avoid the relationship between fear and offense here.
  6. Speebs's Avatar
    Posts
    297 Posts
    Global Posts
    403 Global Posts
    #286  
    Quote Originally Posted by switchedgear View Post
    what about the greek orthodox church that stood acrossed the street from the WTC That they will not let rebuild but they will let the muslims build a center nearby? It's all political. Just bad taste.
    In what way are they not allowing it to be rebuilt? Please post links.
  7. Speebs's Avatar
    Posts
    297 Posts
    Global Posts
    403 Global Posts
    #287  
    Quote Originally Posted by dianehelen View Post
    Do I beleive there are any good muslems? Im not sure, but I sure have not met any that are not hellbent on destroying all Jews(traced back to a 5000 year old family dispute), and all Americans,
    holy crap... are you serious with this? You really think that EVERY Muslim you have ever met (even if you didn't know they were Muslim) is "hellbent on destroying all Jews and all Americans"?? I have a few Muslim friends. They do not want to destroy me, or you.
  8. Speebs's Avatar
    Posts
    297 Posts
    Global Posts
    403 Global Posts
    #288  
    Quote Originally Posted by darkzone View Post
    Yet:

    Jewish Noble Prize recipients = 185
    Muslim Noble Prize recipients = 9

    The Muslims number 1.4 Billion ... or 117 times the number of Jews(12million) Based upon this 117:1 Muslim-to-Jewish ratio

    sure my knowledge is lacking
    OK... now do black vs. white. And Chinese vs. Mexican. And male vs. female. And musicians vs. non-musicians. There are many factors at play there... what are you trying to show?
  9. #289  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    OK... now do black vs. white. And Chinese vs. Mexican. And male vs. female. And musicians vs. non-musicians. There are many factors at play there... what are you trying to show?
    Read my previous posts....
  10. #290  
    Thank God that all the folks in here and around the country that are fighting for the rights of Muslims to build their mosque will also begin to fight for the crosses in Utah that are being told to come down:

    Appeals court rules against Utah memorial crosses - Yahoo! News

    I realize that the arguement will be that most (not all, mind you) of the crosses are on public property while the mosque is on private property, but, something tells me the atheists fighting against these evil crosses would fight them regardless. In case you don't read the article, the crosses are paid for with private funds and only put up with the permission of the troopers' family. But, I'm sure everyone in here for the rights of Muslims would be willing to fight for these crosses to stay put, right?
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  11. #291  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    What about using what the organizers consider the boundaries to be? Would it make any difference if they consider this to be Ground Zero, and that it had been their plans for some time to build on that site? Would it make any difference if they wanted to use Ground Zero as a means to promote Islam? Just asking. Actually, anyone is welcome to answer the question.
    I would say that what anyone "considers" to be the boundaries of Ground Zero is irrelevant since the city of New York has already set well defined boundaries for Ground Zero. Anyone who chooses to ignore them, does so at the expense of their own credibility.

    More importantly a number of supporters of the mosque, including New York Mayor Michael Blomberg argue that the very nearness of Park 51 to Ground Zero makes it appropriate because it shows the power of the American ideal of religious tolerance and I have to say that I agree with this argument. At some point, we have to ask ourselves if our democracy is strong enough to deal with an issue that tests us and if it is not, then we have to ask ourselves what the point of having a democracy if we cannot live by its ideals.
  12. #292  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Thank God that all the folks in here and around the country that are fighting for the rights of Muslims to build their mosque will also begin to fight for the crosses in Utah that are being told to come down:

    Appeals court rules against Utah memorial crosses - Yahoo! News

    I realize that the arguement will be that most (not all, mind you) of the crosses are on public property while the mosque is on private property, but, something tells me the atheists fighting against these evil crosses would fight them regardless. In case you don't read the article, the crosses are paid for with private funds and only put up with the permission of the troopers' family. But, I'm sure everyone in here for the rights of Muslims would be willing to fight for these crosses to stay put, right?
    I am an atheist and a libertarian.

    I would indeed fight for the rights of both. Both are issues regarding freedom of religious practice, and the cross one is also freedom of speech. So yes, I would defend both of those as rights on constitutional grounds.
  13. #293  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Thank God that all the folks in here and around the country that are fighting for the rights of Muslims to build their mosque will also begin to fight for the crosses in Utah that are being told to come down:

    Appeals court rules against Utah memorial crosses - Yahoo! News

    I realize that the arguement will be that most (not all, mind you) of the crosses are on public property while the mosque is on private property, but, something tells me the atheists fighting against these evil crosses would fight them regardless. In case you don't read the article, the crosses are paid for with private funds and only put up with the permission of the troopers' family. But, I'm sure everyone in here for the rights of Muslims would be willing to fight for these crosses to stay put, right?
    Speaking as an Athiest, no, it has everything to do with them being on public property. Separation of church and state! Now, in my personal opinion, I don't really care, they are in tribute to some fallen heros, leave them up. But what would you be saying if one of those troopers was Muslim and they erected a Cresent Moon on public land in his honor?
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  14. #294  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    But what would you be saying if one of those troopers was Muslim and they erected a Cresent Moon on public land in his honor?
    Nail on the head. I still think that's what this whole issue is about.
  15. #295  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    In what way are they not allowing it to be rebuilt? Please post links.
    It's in post #155 a few pages back
    Run your ad here... reach thousands daily...



    ...Now accepting orders for my upcoming iHandle™.
    Reserve yours today!
  16. #296  
    Quote Originally Posted by switchedgear View Post
    what about the greek orthodox church that stood acrossed the street from the WTC That they will not let rebuild but they will let the muslims build a center nearby? It's all political. Just bad taste.
    This is a misstatement of fact. The issues with that church are logistical and economic, not religious or cultural. From the New York Times story about this last year:

    The tiny St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church is once again at the forefront of the myriad disputes that plague the rebuilding effort at ground zero.

    The fate of the church, a narrow whitewashed building that was crushed in the attack on the World Trade Center, was supposed to have been settled eight months ago, with a tentative agreement in which the church would swap its land for a grander church building on a larger parcel nearby, with a $20 million subsidy from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. This would have allowed work to begin at the south end of the site.

    But the two sides never came to final terms. After months of negotiations, the Port Authority, which is overseeing reconstruction at ground zero, ended its talks with the church on Monday, saying that the church had sought increasingly costly concessions.

    Complaints, of course, abound on both sides.

    The authority now says that St. Nicholas is free to rebuild the church on its own parcel at 155 Cedar Street, just east of West Street. The authority will, in turn, use eminent domain to get control of the land beneath that parcel so it can move ahead with building foundation walls and a bomb-screening center for trucks, buses and cars entering the area.

    “We made an extraordinarily generous offer to resolve this issue and spent eight months trying to finalize that offer, and the church wanted even more on top of that,” said Stephen Sigmund, a spokesman for the Port Authority. “They have now given us no choice but to move on to ensure the site is not delayed. The church continues to have the right to rebuild at their original site, and we will pay fair market value for the underground space beneath that building.”
    Unlike that project, the Park51 center will have no impact on any construction at the Ground Zero site, nor is public land needed or involved. It's a red herring to conflate the two. {Jonathan}
    Prof. Jonathan I. Ezor
    Writer, PreCentral
    Past Palm Real Reviewer
    @webOSquire on Twitter
  17. #297  
    All: please keep in mind that no one is suggesting violating rights or goverment mandates - at least not here. Those opposed are suggesting that the mosque leadership consider the division this is causing, and be open for doing something else. In the article I posted last night, the said it was close to ground zero on purpose (and as a symbol against terrorism). But, since it isn't being taken well by others in the community - they should be open to other ideas. It's not like they own a building and can't consider others. Any maybe they can't. they just need to look for solutions privately amongst the people. - no govt unless NYC wants to swap some property.

    I think we all agree, if they insist on building it is their right to do so even if we don't agree with their decision. So let's stop screaming about the constitution. No one is suggesting that we deviate from it at all. We seem to keep re-hashing that. If you read back through the thread you aren't going to find anyone advocating for the government to stop this... It's a private property issue. These guys are going to spend $100million on this project, so they certainly have plenty of clout to get something built where/when they want to - which is what private property is all about. I wish they would do it somewhere else, but certainly they shouldn't be forced to.

    /rant
    Run your ad here... reach thousands daily...



    ...Now accepting orders for my upcoming iHandle™.
    Reserve yours today!
  18. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #298  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    So all Christians are "in fact" associated with the Westboro Church? All Catholics are "in fact" associated with pedophilia? All conservatives are "in fact" assosiated with Timothy McVay? I tend to not believe that...
    If some jewish group was going to build a synagogue and "community center" a few yards away from a spot they'd recently bombed out in Gaza - killed a bunch of palestines - men, women and children; I think you'd be singing a totally different tune.

    And also, if he takes funds from the Saudi's or Iranians, *this* mosque will be directly associated.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  19. Speebs's Avatar
    Posts
    297 Posts
    Global Posts
    403 Global Posts
    #299  
    Quote Originally Posted by darkzone View Post
    Read my previous posts....
    I did. What is your claim?
  20. Speebs's Avatar
    Posts
    297 Posts
    Global Posts
    403 Global Posts
    #300  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Thank God that all the folks in here and around the country that are fighting for the rights of Muslims to build their mosque will also begin to fight for the crosses in Utah that are being told to come down:

    Appeals court rules against Utah memorial crosses - Yahoo! News

    I realize that the arguement will be that most (not all, mind you) of the crosses are on public property while the mosque is on private property, but, something tells me the atheists fighting against these evil crosses would fight them regardless. In case you don't read the article, the crosses are paid for with private funds and only put up with the permission of the troopers' family. But, I'm sure everyone in here for the rights of Muslims would be willing to fight for these crosses to stay put, right?
    Something tells you wrong. There will always be people opposed to it, but it is a legal matter specifically because it is public land (to my knowledge. I'm not a lawyer). The difference is a big one and religious motivations don't have to play into that scenario.

    EDIT: Sorry, just read the other story about this. It is a legal issue since it's public land, and the court has decided, and so I stand by the legal process. PERSONALLY, I have no problem with the crosses and I actually like the idea. But my personal feelings are irrelevant.
    Last edited by Speebs; 08/19/2010 at 12:06 PM.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions