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  1. #201  
    and I saw someone speculating that this planned community center and pool would benefit the entire community... Think they will allow women to swim in a bikini? Or in the same pool as the men?

    probably not.
  2. mdavis113's Avatar
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    #202  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    hmmmm interesting
    George Demos For Congress:

    And the link to a US Congressional hopeful on same Facebook page. Hmmmm ...predictable?
  3. #203  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    and I saw someone speculating that this planned community center and pool would benefit the entire community... Think they will allow women to swim in a bikini? Or in the same pool as the men?

    probably not.
    Excellent point.

    The "entire community"?

    or whomever believes (or wants to believe) what they believe.
  4. #204  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    i could give a rats **** about religion one way or the other, I just find it funny that the conservatives here are "suggesting" that this should not happen.. i do apologize for misreading the faux news poll,, i was wrong..
    however,, it is funny that your constitution says freedom of religion, and several here, who have jumped up and down demanding the constitution be honored etc etc.. now are "suggesting" that because of a Majority ( does the phrase, " tyranny of the majority" ring any bells ) of Americans are against this prayer room. just making an obseravation is all.. I will repeat, though from an earlier post, if it was actually at ground zero it is in bad taste. however, it is about 5 blocks away.. sooooo not at ground zero by any stretch..
    Yo X....most sane folks have agreed it is within their right, so please stop saying we need to honor our Constitution, trust me, I am all for this document and I agree with you (yikes) that they should be able to build it under the rights granted under this document. All most of us are saying is that the Muslims should back down. Obama blew his opportunity to say that while it is within their right under the Constitution to build it, they should consider other locations out of respect for those that look at it as being in bad taste. You don't have to feel that way, but apparently the vast majority of those who were affected do. Let's respect those individual's rights how 'bout it? It's funny, those backing that the Muslims should build say we should respect their feelings, and yet no one wants to respect the feelings of those that lost loved ones and friends on 9/11. How quickly some Americans forget (realizing you are Canadian).

    We could go through all kinds of scenarios where people have the "right" to do something, but should it be done? These Christian nuts that show up at military funerals and yell ridiculous things should have the right to do so under freedom of speech....but....should they? I'm sure you could come up with numerous things that people should be able to do, but it doesn't mean it is right, correct?
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  5. groovy's Avatar
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    #205  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan I Ezor View Post
    So, when the Freedom Tower is completed and (undoubtedly) Muslims are among those who work there, would those of you who oppose Park51 also prohibit them from using a room in the building for their daily prayers? {Jonathan}
    Who is talking about prohibiting anyone from doing anything? I have to admit that I'm not following everyone's argument but is anyone saying these people should be prohibited from building the mosque?
  6. #206  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Yo X....most sane folks have agreed it is within their right, so please stop saying we need to honor our Constitution, trust me, I am all for this document and I agree with you (yikes) that they should be able to build it under the rights granted under this document. All most of us are saying is that the Muslims should back down. Obama blew his opportunity to say that while it is within their right under the Constitution to build it, they should consider other locations out of respect for those that look at it as being in bad taste. You don't have to feel that way, but apparently the vast majority of those who were affected do. Let's respect those individual's rights how 'bout it? It's funny, those backing that the Muslims should build say we should respect their feelings, and yet no one wants to respect the feelings of those that lost loved ones and friends on 9/11. How quickly some Americans forget (realizing you are Canadian).

    We could go through all kinds of scenarios where people have the "right" to do something, but should it be done? These Christian nuts that show up at military funerals and yell ridiculous things should have the right to do so under freedom of speech....but....should they? I'm sure you could come up with numerous things that people should be able to do, but it doesn't mean it is right, correct?
    My point Clem, is this, several in here, have raged about the their individual rights, using the constitution, as their flag. Libertarians who spout against the majority, the tyranny of the majority. Frankly, I think its just plain stupid of that mosque, to open a prayer room there. You point to that wack job group of religious zealots protesting at funerals. They are the type that would bomb a centre like that. More would die. If you believe that is a lilttle far fetched Timmy McVeigh (sp) ring any bells? A number of Canadians died in those buildings that day, one of them a friend.
    The biggest thing I am pointing to here is this, dont stand and wave the constitution in the face of the liberals on some topics and then choose to ignore it on other things. My personal feelings on this topic mirror yours. Just pointing out some very real double standards by some folks here.
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    #207  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    Can you take a look at Google Maps and tell us exactly what the boundaries of "Ground Zero" are? Thanks.
    What about using what the organizers consider the boundaries to be? Would it make any difference if they consider this to be Ground Zero, and that it had been their plans for some time to build on that site? Would it make any difference if they wanted to use Ground Zero as a means to promote Islam? Just asking. Actually, anyone is welcome to answer the question.
  8. #208  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Who is talking about prohibiting anyone from doing anything? I have to admit that I'm not following everyone's argument but is anyone saying these people should be prohibited from building the mosque?
    Absolutely that's what's being said. It was what was said to the Landmarks Commission before the vote, and it's what many are still calling for, even those who understand that the government may not do so under the Constitution. {Jonathan}
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  9. #209  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan I Ezor View Post
    Absolutely that's what's being said. It was what was said to the Landmarks Commission before the vote, and it's what many are still calling for, even those who understand that the government may not do so under the Constitution. {Jonathan}
    it might have been said in the zoning meetings, but not in this thread...
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    #210  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan I Ezor View Post
    Absolutely that's what's being said. It was what was said to the Landmarks Commission before the vote, and it's what many are still calling for, even those who understand that the government may not do so under the Constitution. {Jonathan}
    I thought you were talking about people here.
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    #211  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    I just did. See the post I just made with a map attached. I'd argue that the boundaries of that map are a minimum area for "ground zero" and the proposed location is well within that... of course this is just my opinion.

    There is no official "decider" on what is or isn't "ground zero" but civility and good manners tell me that the location doesn't pass the "good neighbor" test.
    In regards to the Memorial and redevelopment area it looks a little more like this.

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    #212  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    an Imam that wants the US to adopt islamic law for the entire country.
    Do you have any evidence to support this, or are these people guilty until proven innocent? If guilty until proven innocent, why won't you give them a chance to prove their intentions?
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    #213  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    and I saw someone speculating that this planned community center and pool would benefit the entire community... Think they will allow women to swim in a bikini? Or in the same pool as the men?

    probably not.
    Are you for real? You are willfully spreading ignorance and bigotry. You have absolutely no basis from which to make any assumptions. If you can't make a real argument without resorting to comments like these, then you should stop posting in this thread while the rest of us try to have a real discussion.
  14. #214  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    What about using what the organizers consider the boundaries to be? Would it make any difference if they consider this to be Ground Zero, and that it had been their plans for some time to build on that site? Would it make any difference if they wanted to use Ground Zero as a means to promote Islam? Just asking. Actually, anyone is welcome to answer the question.
    I would leave that up to the citizens of nyc as they were the direct targets and lost the most people in the attack.
  15. #215  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    Do you have any evidence to support this, or are these people guilty until proven innocent? If guilty until proven innocent, why won't you give them a chance to prove their intentions?
    a. Yes, his views are public knowledge
    b. Every form of islam believes in a theocracy to enforce islamic law. America was the first nation to specifically eschew establishment of a state religion.
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    #216  
    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    Out of your examples, only the abortion clinic bomber is really analagous. the Priest doesn't molest the children in the name of christianity.

    I don't consider myself a bigot (though I imagine most bigots don't consider themselves so). I also, as an American and a lawyer, don't think the government can or should do anything to prevent the group from building their Mosque their. But, as an american, I can voice and support others who choose to do so, their displeasure with the decision. If the group doesn't care what people think, and just wants a place to prey, they should build the Mosque. But if the group really wants to promote harmony between two cultures (Islam and the West), they should probably rethink this decision.
    Typo, or just being clever?
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    #217  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    What about using what the organizers consider the boundaries to be? Would it make any difference if they consider this to be Ground Zero, and that it had been their plans for some time to build on that site? Would it make any difference if they wanted to use Ground Zero as a means to promote Islam? Just asking. Actually, anyone is welcome to answer the question.
    I saw a news clip of one of the organizers stating that it is not at Ground Zero, so we can assume that their definition of Ground Zero is the footprint of the twin towers (or at least something very close to it). If you can prove otherwise, go for it. Until then you are simply stoking a fire that you desperately want to exist, but doesn't.

    And no, it would not make any difference if they planned to build a prayer room right on Ground Zero. You are assuming they want to promote Islam (does your church promote Christianity or is it just a place to congregate?) or that my synagogue promotes Judaism. Stop making blind assumptions based on the fears you have been brainwashed to have. If you can provide a link proving that they want to "promote Islam" then let's have it. The burden of proof is on YOU to support your claims.
  18. #218  
    Quote Originally Posted by mdavis113 View Post
    Typo, or just being clever?
    nice catch. Hopefully a typo...
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    #219  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    a. Yes, his views are public knowledge
    b. Every form of islam believes in a theocracy to enforce islamic law. America was the first nation to specifically eschew establishment of a state religion.
    a. Fair enough. Still, this is just a prayer room for people to use, not a full mosque according to everything I've read.
    b. Are you sure?
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    #220  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    I saw a news clip of one of the organizers stating that it is not at Ground Zero, so we can assume that their definition of Ground Zero is the footprint of the twin towers (or at least something very close to it). If you can prove otherwise, go for it. Until then you are simply stoking a fire that you desperately want to exist, but doesn't.

    And no, it would not make any difference if they planned to build a prayer room right on Ground Zero. You are assuming they want to promote Islam (does your church promote Christianity or is it just a place to congregate?) or that my synagogue promotes Judaism. Stop making blind assumptions based on the fears you have been brainwashed to have. If you can provide a link proving that they want to "promote Islam" then let's have it. The burden of proof is on YOU to support your claims.
    It probably wouldn't make a difference if the main backer wrote a book called "The Call to Prayer from the WTC Rubble: Preaching Islam in the Heart of America Post 9/11"; or if it was published by an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation terror financing investigation and identified as being part of the Muslim Brotherhood; or if in that book he discussed the idea of creating religious sub-courts in the US Judiciary. Far from broad brushing, I don't think this guy represents American Muslims well.

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