Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 67
  1.    #1  
    If you want to save money, all you have to do is figure out how to do something about this. This story, from several months ago, was rerun tonight and is an incredibly accurate discussion of the major waste of money in health care. Of course, nobody can really attempt to do anything about it, because they will be accused of rationing care, or having death panels, or some other absurdity. Takes a while to watch, but if you're interested in the real issues in costs and health care, this is important...much more important than insurance being available across state lines, or tort reform, or even fraud. All you have to do is figure out what we should do about it.

    The Cost of Dying - 60 Minutes - CBS News
  2. #2  
    Hey, i was wondering what happened to all the political threads.
  3. #3  
    The only problem with health care is greed, plain and simple.
    Hmmm?.....It's a Palm Pre, here, let me show you something cool...;-)
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbdoinit View Post
    Hey, i was wondering what happened to all the political threads.
    Same.. I'm shocked the health care for 9/11 RESCUE WORKERS didn't come up.. That made me so angry, and i'm a Canadian who didn't loose a single friend on 9/11.


    edit: Watched the video, and wow...
    Last edited by nimer55; 08/08/2010 at 07:01 PM.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by blaircraigon View Post
    The only problem with health care is greed, plain and simple.
    The only problem with healthcare, is theres no healthcare
    http://<font color="Navy">Poll: Requ...r webOS</font>

    Coming soon-Calm Alarm
    Quote Originally Posted by SirataXero View Post
    Palm Pimp.
    Comes with 2 free Pixis.
  6. #6  
    illegal mexicans love our health care!
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by hatchettjack View Post
    illegal mexicans love our health care!
    Illegal Americans loves ours! (Canadian)


    That's right, our tax payer money goes to people who live in first world country, have jobs, make money, pay taxes, but can't afford health care, or lost their jobs for a while.

    Yet, you never see Canadians complaining. Whenever the topic of health care comes up we simply encourage you to get a universal service, not because we're sick and tired of your hypocritical people taking advantage of ours, but because we think every american has the right to health care.
  8. #8  
    I used to work for a canadian company. I saw first hand how hard it is to get a 'green card' to work in canada. Canada knows how to lock their borders and keep foreigners out of their social programs.
  9. groovy's Avatar
    Posts
    941 Posts
    Global Posts
    955 Global Posts
    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    If you want to save money, all you have to do is figure out how to do something about this. This story, from several months ago, was rerun tonight and is an incredibly accurate discussion of the major waste of money in health care. Of course, nobody can really attempt to do anything about it, because they will be accused of rationing care, or having death panels, or some other absurdity. Takes a while to watch, but if you're interested in the real issues in costs and health care, this is important...much more important than insurance being available across state lines, or tort reform, or even fraud. All you have to do is figure out what we should do about it.

    The Cost of Dying - 60 Minutes - CBS News
    I see a rather large disconnect between your post and the video. They already are talking about rationing and one of the points in the video was that rationing wouldn't be necessary if it weren't for the waste. I also see a disconnect in the video itself which was, on the one hand, talking about how waste could be eliminated and, on the other, talking about saving money by "getting over" our own mortality. So, I guess I missed the controversy save the one that was rather blatantly manufactured.
  10. #10  
    most disturbing thread name I can remember.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by toyotast165 View Post
    most disturbing thread name I can remember.

    hahaha..


    I liked it! it was creative!
  12. psm9's Avatar
    Posts
    328 Posts
    Global Posts
    340 Global Posts
    #12  
    rationing already happens, except it's an insurance company bureaucrat that makes the decision, not the government. People always missed that point in the debate. The people who make those decisions have nothing but profit in mind.
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    I see a rather large disconnect between your post and the video. They already are talking about rationing and one of the points in the video was that rationing wouldn't be necessary if it weren't for the waste. I also see a disconnect in the video itself which was, on the one hand, talking about how waste could be eliminated and, on the other, talking about saving money by "getting over" our own mortality. So, I guess I missed the controversy save the one that was rather blatantly manufactured.
    I'm not getting whatever your point is. Whenever anyone brings up the idea of even discussing options of non-aggressive care, which was part of the original health care bill and was demonstrated nicely in the video, they have been accused by the right wing of having death panels, with the only reason being to save money regardless of lives...and you know it. The republicants ended up chasing that very good provision out of the plan. Eliminating waste in this setting requires a cultural paradigm shift, but the right would never allow that to even be mentioned without scaring everyone about government death panels (as the paragon of consciousness-raising Sarah Palin thrust into common parlance) and as Chuck Grassle so eloquently noted, pulling the plug on grandma. Disgusting misinformation from the right that ends up increasing costs and worsening the quality of care.
  14. groovy's Avatar
    Posts
    941 Posts
    Global Posts
    955 Global Posts
    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I'm not getting whatever your point is. Whenever anyone brings up the idea of even discussing options of non-aggressive care, which was part of the original health care bill and was demonstrated nicely in the video, they have been accused by the right wing of having death panels, with the only reason being to save money regardless of lives...and you know it. The republicants ended up chasing that very good provision out of the plan. Eliminating waste in this setting requires a cultural paradigm shift, but the right would never allow that to even be mentioned without scaring everyone about government death panels (as the paragon of consciousness-raising Sarah Palin thrust into common parlance) and as Chuck Grassle so eloquently noted, pulling the plug on grandma. Disgusting misinformation from the right that ends up increasing costs and worsening the quality of care.
    If that was the point, I really don't see how the video demonstrated it. One of their examples went through a barrage of tests despite her wishes as outlined in her living will. It seems she had already made her own aforementioned paradigm shift and it did no good. Another example was sitting in the hospital recovering, at least partly, from a hospital-acquired infection. With such a widespread problem, you'd think they could have opened with some better examples.

    Regarding discussions on end-of-life care, that doctor clearly was not able to keep his own personal beliefs out of the discussion. I would not want someone like him counseling my own family on such matters.
  15. #15  
    Define what you are referring to as waste.
  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    If that was the point, I really don't see how the video demonstrated it. One of their examples went through a barrage of tests despite her wishes as outlined in her living will. It seems she had already made her own aforementioned paradigm shift and it did no good. Another example was sitting in the hospital recovering, at least partly, from a hospital-acquired infection. With such a widespread problem, you'd think they could have opened with some better examples.

    Regarding discussions on end-of-life care, that doctor clearly was not able to keep his own personal beliefs out of the discussion. I would not want someone like him counseling my own family on such matters.
    If you don't want "someone like him" counseling your own family, then you will contribute to the problem. He said, and he meant, that whatever the patient decided they would do, and they did. But he knew the man was not going to survive. There are some things that are indisputable...except for miracles. And if you want to spend billions of dollars in hoping for miracles when they're not going to happen, then you are adding to the problem. As was stated there needs to be an honest open discussion about our cultural addiction to heroic medicine, to attempting to save someone's life in the face of assured death. It doesn't take place in other countries to this extent, and it will bankrupt us most certainly if something isn't done. And you can rail all you want about Obamacare, or national health plans, or a single payor plan...that makes no difference. All these people will be in the hospital,insurance or not, and you will be paying for their terminal care one way or another.
  17.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrminer92 View Post
    Define what you are referring to as waste.
    Did you watch the clip? Expending huge amounts of resources in the face of certain death, with little hope of any improvement in quality of life. It's like he said....people think there's nothing worse than dying. That's not the case. There is living braindead for 10 years and then dying. Of course, there are some people that start early.
  18. #18  
    I'm not sure what Obama's reforms have in mind but I can comment that even in Canadian style public medicine heroic measures and keeping loved ones alive for years on machines still goes on....ultimately this is because everything is still up to the choice of the family members.
    Sprint|Samsung Epic
  19. #19  
    David, that is a hard one, personally, i have a living will, if its bad, ie after an accident, then un-freaking-plug me,, i have no wish to be stuck in a bed for the next ten or twenty years. hell not even one day. That is not living. As to the title of this thread, "unplugging Grandma" do not be selfish, think about what the person laying there would have really wanted, what sort of life they had, dont use your own damn feelings for what is best for Grandma.
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  20. #20  
    I read an article not too long ago about this, from a slightly different agngle. They were talking about the availablility and use of hospice services. Hospice, under normal circumstances is something that is available to patients who are certifiably terminal (generally within 6 months) and is available to people who forego all other life saving measures. There were studies that made hospice (counseling, support, palliative care, etc.) available to patients with a one-year window, instead of 6 months, and they did not have to forego other measures. People who took advantage of the hospice services were able to discuss, with the hospice worker and with the family, issues like how do you want to die, what measures do you want taken, etc. They found that these people tended to use less, not more (usually futile) life extending services, even though they were available, and were more comfortable with their decisions and their situations. By the way, saving money, and not "pulling the plug." There was a one-liner at the end of the story last night that said in the health care bill, funding for hospice services was cut. This is not a death panel. This is not getting grandma out of the way. This is facing death realistically, with dignity and maturity, and not being forced (in some situations) to be plugged in to every orifice against your will.

    I thought the story last night missed out on an important opportunity to reframe the discussion from "let's save money," to "how do I die with grace and dignity." I hope they cover this story again in light of this information.


    I'm not offended by all the dumb blonde jokes because I know I'm not dumb... and I also know that I'm not blonde. Dolly Parton
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions