View Poll Results: It's the

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  • Speed of dark

    2 9.52%
  • Speed of darkness

    4 19.05%
  • something else..

    15 71.43%
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  1. #21  
    Dark is the correct form as it is the absence of light.
    Light/dark can be qualities also. Lightness/darkness are nouns.
    Darkness is more palpable and should be used as a noun, more like, "Darkness fell over the forest." , while you would have to say something more along the lines of, "Light filled the morning sky over the forest." to say the opposite using the word light.

    Main Entry: 1dark
    Pronunciation: 'därk
    Function: adjective
    Etymology: Middle English derk, from Old English deorc; akin to Old High German tarchannen to hide
    Date: before 12th century
    1 a : devoid or partially devoid of light : not receiving, reflecting, transmitting, or radiating light b : transmitting only a portion of light
    2 a : wholly or partially black b of a color : of low or very low lightness
    3 a : arising from or showing evil traits or desires : EVIL b : DISMAL, GLOOMY c : lacking knowledge or culture
    4 : not clear to the understanding
    5 : not fair in complexion : SWARTHY
    6 : SECRET
    7 : possessing depth and richness
    8 : closed to the public
    synonym see OBSCURE
    - dark.ish /'d@r-kish/ adjective
    - dark.ly adverb
    - dark.ness noun

    OR

    Main Entry: 2dark
    Function: noun
    Date: 13th century
    1 a : a place or time of little or no light : NIGHT, NIGHTFALL b : absence of light : DARKNESS
    2 : a dark or deep color
    - in the dark 1 : in secrecy 2 : in ignorance

    OR

    Main Entry: 3dark
    Function: verb
    Date: 14th century
    intransitive senses obsolete : to grow dark
    transitive senses : to make dark
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  2. #22  
    Originally posted by sowens


    But didn't Hawking also prove that particles can escape from a black hole, thus proving black holes weren't actually black?
    Particles don't so much escape from the surface of the black hole but from the material that surrounds the black hole. Obviously since light can't escape from the surface, we can't see an actually black hole but we can see the material that is surrounding the dead star that's about to be sucked up by it. As you get closer to the star, the material more densly backed, causing more and more collisions to occur. We see that in the infrared. We can also see the energy given off when material hits the surface in the form of dipolar X-Ray (maybe Gamma ray, not sure) jets. But the light that normallly would radiate from the surface is unable to escape due to a black holes immense gravity.

    Jason
    Did you just go near a burning hot river of lava or are you just happy to see me?
  3.    #23  
    Originally posted by na2rboy
    The speed of light is a constant
    Not according to recent studies.. apperantly the speed of light is slowing down..
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  4. #24  
    *cough*

    Originally posted by BobbyMike
    Dark is the correct form as it is the absence of light.
    Dr. Bobby-Mike, you just ruined your own argument. to wit:



    1 a : devoid or partially devoid of light : not receiving, reflecting, transmitting, or radiating light b : transmitting only a portion of light


    as dark cannot be transmitted or received, there cannot be a "speed of dark."
    After all, no one ever speaks of "dark energy" (that I know of .. black lights don't count). Dark matter, yes, dark side of the moon, yes, dark side of the force, yes, dark energy, no.
    "Darkness" on the other hand, except probably that which is on the Edge of Town, is defined thusly:
    (all definitions from dictionary.com and attributed as shown)

    darkness
    \Dark"ness\, n. 1. The absence of light; blackness; obscurity; gloom.
    And darkness was upon the face of the deep. --Gen. i. 2.
    2. A state of privacy; secrecy.
    What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light. --Matt. x. 27.
    3. A state of ignorance or error, especially on moral or religious subjects; hence, wickedness; impurity.
    Men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. --John. iii. 19.
    Pursue these sons of darkness: drive them out From all heaven's bounds. --Milton.
    4. Want of clearness or perspicuity; obscurity; as, the darkness of a subject, or of a discussion.
    5. A state of distress or trouble.
    A day of clouds and of thick darkness. --Joel. ii. 2.
    Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

    darkness
    n 1: absence of light or illumination [syn: dark] [ant: light] 2: an unilluminated area; "he moved off into the darkness" [syn: dark, shadow] 3: absence of moral or spiritual values; "the powers of darkness" [syn: iniquity, wickedness, dark] 4: an unenlightened state; "he was in the dark concerning their intentions"; "his lectures dispelled the darkness" [syn: dark] 5: having a dark or somber color [ant: lightness] 6: a swarthy complexion [syn: duskiness, swarthiness]
    Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

    There was also a religious definition, but I think I'll skip that (wanting to keep religion out of science, since science tends to debunk religion and religion tends to say science is a big pile of hokum), and one that got into synonyms.

    Anyway, since "Darkness" is equated with "absence of light" and we've already determined that the opposite of the speed of light would be the absense of light, it must be the speed of darkness, Q.E.D. (well, Q.E.D. until Toby gets into the act.)
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  5. #25  
    Originally posted by ToolkiT

    Not according to recent studies.. apperantly the speed of light is slowing down..
    a source, please .. or I'll consider this heresy and sic the Spanish Inquisition on you.
    And remember ... no one expects the Spanish Inquisition.
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  6. #26  
    Originally posted by Yorick
    [BAnyway, since "Darkness" is equated with "absence of light" and we've already determined that the opposite of the speed of light would be the absense of light, it must be the speed of darkness, Q.E.D. (well, Q.E.D. until Toby gets into the act.) [/B]
    I'd have to agree with Yorick on this one, linguistically (for me anyway) (and science aside) it would be "darkness"..

    "speed of darkness" has all its own creeping trappings about it
    "One of the most important things you learn from the internet is that there is no ‘them’ out there. It’s just an awful lot of ‘us’." -- Douglas Adams
  7.    #27  
    Originally posted by Yorick

    a source, please .. or I'll consider this heresy and sic the Spanish Inquisition on you.
    And remember ... no one expects the Spanish Inquisition.
    ABC news yesterday evening...

    Read something about it in the Sydney morning herald too www.smh.com.au

    found a link but you have to pay to see the whole article
    http://newsstore.com.au/rlprod/rlsea...speed+of+light
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  8. #28  
    Now I bring out the big guns.... What is light?

    Main Entry: 1light
    Pronunciation: 'lIt
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle English, from Old English lEoht; akin to Old High German lioht light, Latin luc-, lux light, lucEre to shine, Greek leukos white
    Date: before 12th century
    1 a : something that makes vision possible b : the sensation aroused by stimulation of the visual receptors c : an electromagnetic radiation in the wavelength range including infrared, visible, ultraviolet, and X rays and traveling in a vacuum with a speed of about 186,281 miles (300,000 kilometers) per second; specifically : the part of this range that is visible to the human eye
    2 a : DAYLIGHT </cgi-bin/mw.cgi?dlookup=DAYLIGHT&dib.x=1> b : DAWN </cgi-bin/mw.cgi?dlookup=DAWN&dib.x=1>
    3 : a source of light: as a : a celestial body b : CANDLE </cgi-bin/mw.cgi?dlookup=CANDLE&dib.x=1> c : an electric light
    4 archaic : SIGHT </cgi-bin/mw.cgi?dlookup=SIGHT&dib.x=1> 4a
    5 a : spiritual illumination b : INNER </cgi-bin/mw.cgi?dlookup=INNER&dib.x=1> LIGHT </cgi-bin/mw.cgi?dlookup=LIGHT&dib.x=1> c : ENLIGHTENMENT </cgi-bin/mw.cgi?dlookup=ENLIGHTENMENT&dib.x=1> d : TRUTH </cgi-bin/mw.cgi?dlookup=TRUTH&dib.x=1>
    6 a : public knowledge b : a particular aspect or appearance presented to view
    7 : a particular illumination
    8 : something that enlightens or informs
    9 : a medium (as a window) through which light is admitted
    10 plural : a set of principles, standards, or opinions
    11 : a noteworthy person in a particular place or field
    12 : a particular expression of the eye
    13 a : LIGHTHOUSE </cgi-bin/mw.cgi?dlookup=LIGHTHOUSE&dib.x=1>, BEACON </cgi-bin/mw.cgi?dlookup=BEACON&dib.x=1> b : TRAFFIC </cgi-bin/mw.cgi?dlookup=TRAFFIC&dib.x=1> LIGHT </cgi-bin/mw.cgi?dlookup=LIGHT&dib.x=1>
    14 : the representation of light in art
    15 : a flame for lighting something
    - in the light of 1 : from the point of view of 2 or in light of : in view of

    Main Entry: 2light
    Function: adjective
    Date: before 12th century
    1 : having light : BRIGHT </cgi-bin/mw.cgi?dlookup=BRIGHT&dib.x=1>
    2 a :not dark , intense, or swarthy in color or coloring : PALE </cgi-bin/mw.cgi?dlookup=PALE&dib.x=1> b of colors : medium in saturation and high in lightness
    3 of coffee : served with extra milk or cream

    Main Entry: 3light
    Function: verb
    Date: before 12th century
    Inflected Form(s): lit /'lit/; or light.ed; light.ing
    intransitive senses
    1 : to become light : BRIGHTEN </cgi-bin/mw.cgi?dlookup=BRIGHTEN&dib.x=1> -- usually used with up
    2 : to take fire
    3 : to ignite something (as a cigarette) -- often used with up
    transitive senses
    1 : to set fire to
    2 a : to conduct with a light : GUIDE </cgi-bin/mw.cgi?dlookup=GUIDE&dib.x=1> b : ILLUMINATE </cgi-bin/mw.cgi?dlookup=ILLUMINATE&dib.x=1> c : ANIMATE </cgi-bin/mw.cgi?dlookup=ANIMATE&dib.x=1>, BRIGHTEN </cgi-bin/mw.cgi?dlookup=BRIGHTEN&dib.x=1>


    Both Light and Dark can be used as nouns, verbs and adjectives. Darkness can only be used as a noun. (Lightness also can only be used as a noun)

    To support Dark as the opposite of light you could cite this instance:

    dark

    adj 1: devoid or partially devoid of light or brightness; shadowed or black or somber-colored; "sitting in a dark corner"; "a dark day"; "dark shadows"; "the theater is dark on Mondays"; or my favorite"dark as the inside of a black cat" [ant: light]

    To support Darkness as the opposite of light you could cite this instance:

    darkness

    \Dark"ness\, n. 1. The absence of light; blackness; obscurity; gloom.

    And darkness was upon the face of the deep. --Gen. i. 2.

    Both definitions list Light as an antonym (A word having a meaning opposite to that of another word), So we could probably argue both points around and around- my belief is that in grammar and writing, like goes with like, ergo Light/Dark and Lightness/Darkness.

    Yorick, as to your statement:

    "as dark cannot be transmitted or received, there cannot be a "speed of dark."
    After all, no one ever speaks of "dark energy" (that I know of .. black lights don't count). Dark matter, yes, dark side of the moon, yes, dark side of the force, yes, dark energy, no. "


    That goes for darkness too. They both (dark and darkness) are described as "an absence of light"

    The problem with trying to exclude either one, is that as nouns they mean virtually the same thing!
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  9.    #29  
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  10. #30  
    wait wait wait

    I think I got this one!

    The speed of dark/darkness is the same as the speed of light.

    Think about it, if light travels 300,000 kilometers in a second from it's source- the end or stoppage of that light will also occur within the same framework. The light stops, but it takes a second for that stoppage of light (dark or darkness) to travel that same 300,000 kilometers.

    Does that meake sense to anyone else?
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  11. #31  
    Originally posted by BobbyMike
    The speed of dark/darkness is the same as the speed of light.

    Think about it, if light travels 300,000 kilometers in a second from it's source- the end or stoppage of that light will also occur within the same framework. The light stops, but it takes a second for that stoppage of light (dark or darkness) to travel that same 300,000 kilometers.

    Does that meake sense to anyone else?
    so, you're saying, that it takes the same length of time for a receptor (exampe, your eyes) to register a flash of light as it would to register an interval of dark?
    i.e. a strobe light of some sort, flashing slowly, with the same length of time for the "on" state as for the "off" state (geez, this sounds like "Star Trek" technobabble), transmits both light and dark at the same speed?

    interesting.
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  12. #32  
    Originally posted by ToolkiT
    found an interesting link...
    http://www2.abc.net.au/science/k2/st...topic1942.shtm
    Thanks toolkit.
    The first poster there makes an egregious error: the assumption that "cold" is really the "absence of heat." Since generating heat merely means to excite molecules to generate energy (which is released as heat) "cold" is a slower molecular motion state, where it it still generating heat but at such a slowed level that one cannot perceive it as such, since we have a "normal" threshold below which we consider things to be cold.

    but now I'm getting off-topic.
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  13. #33  
    Originally posted by EricG
    I'd have to agree with Yorick on this one, linguistically (for me anyway) (and science aside) it would be "darkness"..

    "speed of darkness" has all its own creeping trappings about it
    It doesn't matter. Yes, linguistically, the 'speed of darkness' would probably be more correct, but _humorously_ the 'speed of dark' just comes across as funnier.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  14. #34  
    I gotta agree with Toby on this- 'the speed of dark' is 'punchier', shorter, and instinctively more the opposite of 'light' than 'darkness' is.

    Play the 'free association' game- you know... 'cat/dog', 'warm/cold', etc. When you get to 'light' the reply will almost always be 'dark'.

    For a sig, I think the 'speed of dark' is better, even if perhaps not QUITE as grammatical.

    Of course... since we have already SOLVED that question, perhaps it is time for a new sig altogether?

    Maybe something aloong the lines of "If the speed of 'light' is 2.99792458 x 10 to the 8th meters a second, what is the speed of 'heavy'?"
    Do what you can, with what you have, where you are at!
  15. #35  
    Originally posted by BobbyMike
    wait wait wait

    I think I got this one!

    The speed of dark/darkness is the same as the speed of light.

    Think about it, if light travels 300,000 kilometers in a second from it's source- the end or stoppage of that light will also occur within the same framework. The light stops, but it takes a second for that stoppage of light (dark or darkness) to travel that same 300,000 kilometers.

    Does that meake sense to anyone else?
    Umm, no.

    You're talking about velocity, which would have a direction and, therefore, an opposite. Speed is a magnitude which, I believe, can't have an opposite because it has no direction. However I agree with the concept Yorick had (based on your explanation) that light is actually a "flash" registered on some receptor based on a particle releasing it's energy during decelaration.

    Of course, that begs the question (well, to me anyway) of whether light actually exists if there are no receptors to detect it, but my brain hurts too much now to wrap my head around that one.

    As far as dark or darkness, I've got to agree with Toby: darkness may be correct, but dark is more funny.
    It's gotta be weather balloons. It's always weather balloons. Big, fiery, exploding weather balloons.
    -- ComaVN (from Slashdot)
  16. #36  
    Originally posted by Madkins007
    [...] Maybe something aloong the lines of "If the speed of 'light' is 2.99792458 x 10 to the 8th meters a second, what is the speed of 'heavy'?"
    That one's even better. Nice setup. Great delivery.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  17. #37  
    "You're talking about velocity, which would have a direction and, therefore, an opposite. Speed is a magnitude which, I believe, can't have an opposite because it has no direction."

    speed
    Physics. The rate or a measure of the rate of motion, especially:
    Distance traveled divided by the time of travel.
    The limit of this quotient as the time of travel becomes vanishingly small; the first derivative of distance with respect to time.
    The magnitude of a velocity.
    n. pl. ve·loc·i·ties
    Rapidity or speed of motion; swiftness.
    Physics. A vector quantity whose magnitude is a body's speed and whose direction is the body's direction of motion.
    The rate of speed of action or occurrence.

    The term "Speed of Light" is commonly used to denotate the velocity. You're playing with semantics
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  18. #38  
    Originally posted by BobbyMike

    The term "Speed of Light" is commonly used to denotate the velocity. You're playing with semantics
    As are you, since you have been the one routinely posting the definitions. Unfortunately even the definitions you've chosen don't seem to support your "common definition" of the speed of light.

    This does bring up a good point, however (and one that's a bit more relevant to the original discussion): we English speakers often don't use the language properly, thus making it even more difficult for non-English speakers to learn & understand what's being said. While this might sometimes be desireable in a story or poem to highlight a nuance of language (thus giving insight into the time period of the writing or into the writer's perception), it's not good in general discussions where clarity is more important.
    It's gotta be weather balloons. It's always weather balloons. Big, fiery, exploding weather balloons.
    -- ComaVN (from Slashdot)
  19. #39  
    As are you, since you have been the one routinely posting the definitions. Unfortunately even the definitions you've chosen don't seem to support your "common definition" of the speed of light.

    I don't think I ever even tried to support the term "speed of light" with my definition. If I was going to do that I would just post a page of Google search results of the words "speed of light". (FYI about 2,740,000 results for speed of light vs. about 671,000 results for velocity of light)

    I was just showing how both dark and darkness could be used as a noun opposite light, but dark was more similar becuase of it's uses. If I was playing semantics I would have just included the results that supported my viewpoint, which is what this is all about. I already said dark and darkness were virtually identical. I just think dark is better suited than darkness because the way it sounds.

    I posted the definitions (all of the ones pertaining to light) becasue I had to look them up myself. You're correct in that many people don't "use" words correctly or properly, but language is a fluid thing - that's one of the reasons there are so many new versions of the Bible for the English language.

    BTW I'm sorry if I offended you with my statement about semantics. I really didn't mean it in an adverserial (sic) way. If I didn't offend you, I apoligize for thinking I offended you.
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  20. #40  
    My wife and I have had a wonderful time reading through all the posts. I am a lay person and some of the discussion went way over my head (probably at the speed of light) and have left me in the dark However, even my wife and her scientific mind started to have glazed over eyes by the end.

    Sorry I am not as witty, so getting back to the original question, my wife and I agree the correct grammar is "the speed of darkness" and I don't find it any less humorous than the incorrect "speed of dark".

    As for what is the opposite of the speed of light, I like the black hole explanation the best...even if it is wrong!

    I also give points to the poster who talked about the speed of darkness being the same as the speed of light. Let's use a speed of light we can quantify, it takes ~8 minutes for the sun's rays to reach Earth. If the sun were to be snuffed out, we would have eight minutes of light before darkness fell upon us. Isn't that first particle behind the last ray of light travelling at the same speed as the light rays? And if that particle is not "darkness", what is it?
    No more rhymes...and this time I mean it!
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