Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 129
  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    It is better to do something, even if it could turn out to be wrong, than to do nothing at all.
    This sums up progressive governance quite well.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS1 View Post
    This sums up progressive governance quite well.
    I guess it is better to do nothing and let everything happen that is going to happen? Let the free market work out its own problems?

    examples:

    BP gulf leak

    Housing market bubble burst

    Banks failing

    Auto makers failing

    Our current recession

    Savings and loans failing

    The Great Depression...
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    I guess it is better to do nothing and let everything happen that is going to happen? Let the free market work out its own problems?

    examples:

    BP gulf leak

    Housing market bubble burst

    Banks failing

    Auto makers failing

    Our current recession

    Savings and loans failing

    The Great Depression...
    BP seems to be doing a hell of a lot more about the Gulf than the government. Pollution is a problem created by public, not private property. I would not be surprised if claims are given out more slowly and in smaller amounts because of the dictatorial escrow decree.

    You have no evidence that government programs have done anything useful in the disasters you list. There is a very large, overwhelmingly rigorous amount of evidence that in every situation you list, government programs made things worse. Unfortunately there are large absurdly fallacious bodies of evidence, who's existence is devoted to finding justification for the funding of their future existence through government programs, that the government can just print a few bucks, pass a few more regulations that largely help current market players, and no problems will ever arise again.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS1 View Post
    The US was that country for the better part of 200 years and experienced most of our growth out of abject poverty under that system.

    You have never proven that any government program has created jobs. The are far more rigorous arguments that jobs programs have actually destroyed jobs for now and well into the future.
    yeah, right. What we do have evidence of is that the tremendous job losses during the previous administration were stopped in their tracks when Obama took office. Certainly you've seen the bikini graph. Just how do you explain that?

    And Boehner, talking about how the country he grew up in is being destroyed by taxes. Of course, in the fifties, under Eisenhower, tax rates were as high as 90%, and were ridiculously higher than today. I suspect you would be happy if we went back to the 1700's, but somehow I just don't think slaves are in our future. Reactionaries have always wanted to return to the good old days, when no elderly people had any kind of insurance, and the poor died from lack of care. Fortunately, our country is better than that and we do believe that all citizens should be treated with dignity...even those who are unemployed, and paid unemployment insurance all their lives. Of course, now that they need it because of the millions of lost jobs under the previous adminstation, the republicans just say "tough %hit". You're nothing but a bunch of lazy spoiled creeps. Really...your fantasy about how great the country was is incredibly short-sighted, but that's not surprising. Conservatives are exactly that.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    yeah, right. Like Boehner, talking about how the country he grew up in is being destroyed by taxes. Of course, in the fifties, under Eisenhower, tax rates were as high as 90%, and were ridiculously higher than today. I suspect you would be happy if we went back to the 1700's, but somehow I just don't think slaves are in our future. Reactionaries have always wanted to return to the good old days, when no elderly people had any kind of insurance, and the poor died from lack of care. Fortunately, our country is better than that and we do believe that all citizens should be treated with dignity...even those who are unemployed, and paid unemployment insurance all their lives. Of course, now that they need it because of the millions of lost jobs under the previous adminstation, the republicans just say "tough %hit". You're nothing but a bunch of lazy spoiled creeps. Really...your fantasy about how great the country was is incredibly short-sighted, but that's not surprising. Conservatives are exactly that.
    Ohh, I'm a "reactionary" now. Wait, but then I'm a "conservative." Which is it?

    As is typical with people like you, you label, and attempt to circumvent. If you hated Bush so much then why have you said nothing about Obama's continuation of virtually every policy?

    Before the rise of the welfare state, doctors regularly gave care to the elderly for free. People regularly donated 10% of their income to charities. And if those charities failed to do what they promised people went and found another.

    Unfortunately today we are forced into being virtuous and giving to an entity that not only is inefficient, but champions it's inefficiency as "job creation."

    Sometimes I truly wonder if people like you would ever stop expanding government. What size would be right? Is it ever large enough? Would you ever stop thinking you could make society more perfect if only you could raise taxes another 5%?
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS1 View Post
    BP seems to be doing a hell of a lot more about the Gulf than the government....
    It is BP's mess to clean up. So you want the government to stay out of everything, but they are not doing it enough about the spill? You can't have it both ways. When an oil company signs a lease to drill on our land, they take responsibility for any and all leaks and/or spills. BP was supposed to be prepared for such events according to the lease contract.

    You have no evidence that government programs have done anything useful in the disasters you list....
    Actually, after the depression, regulations were put in place to stabilize our economy, and for the most part, they worked well. Before the depression, our economy was in a constant peak and valley state. After the regulations, it was more of a slow steady roll. Reagan got into office and started removing the regulations, the savings and loans failed almost immediately, and all hell has been breaking ever since. We are now back to the peaks (dot com boom, housing boom) and valleys (banks failing, loan industries bubble bursting). How is that for evidence?
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by tcrunner View Post
    Know what's interesting about that limited list? There is a Bush associated with each and every one of them. Oh dear, what that family has cost the United States!
    LOL well not quite. Bush's did not have much to do with the depression. The savings and loans failure was more Reagan's doing...
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    This country, David.... pretty much up until Woodrow Wilson and Progressivism.
    So Teddy Roosevelt, a good republican, provided the impetus for progressivism, busted trusts and wanted to give people a "fair shake". McKinley, who is held up by many conservatives, presided over a tax rate of 50%. This country succeeded because of a combination of government and business, at a time when businesses weren't sending jobs overseas and had a commitment to the population instead of to shareholders. I realize that simplification is the easiest argument for conservatives, but that minimizes the need for the truth.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    It is BP's mess to clean up. So you want the government to stay out of everything, but they are not doing it enough about the spill? You can't have it both ways. When an oil company signs a lease to drill on our land, they take responsibility for any and all leaks and/or spills. BP was supposed to be prepared for such events according to the lease contract.

    Actually, after the depression, regulations were put in place to stabilize our economy, and for the most part, they worked well. Before the depression, our economy was in a constant peak and valley state. After the regulations, it was more of a slow steady roll. Reagan got into office and started removing the regulations, the savings and loans failed almost immediately, and all hell has been breaking ever since. We are now back to the peaks (dot com boom, housing boom) and valleys (banks failing, loan industries bubble bursting). How is that for evidence?
    Actually my point was government rarely if ever completes anything with a modicum of efficiency. I'm glad BP is stepping up to the plate. We certainly couldn't rely on the government to ever deal with this.

    Could you elaborate on those regulations? And also could you elaborate on the cause of the stagflation of the 70's? My guess is you were not alive during this time and choose to ignore it because it disagrees with your world view. This is a typical rewriting of history.

    I suppose Clinton ending all those regulations just happily slipped your mind also?
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    LOL well not quite. Bush's did not have much to do with the depression. The savings and loans failure was more Reagan's doing...
    Do you even know who Reagan's vice president was?
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS1 View Post
    Actually my point was government rarely if ever completes anything with a modicum of efficiency. I'm glad BP is stepping up to the plate. We certainly couldn't rely on the government to ever deal with this.
    So you are happy with the job BP is doing to stop the leak? You do realize it is still leaking right? Have you noticed they have never tried to actually stop it but rather, they have only tried to control it. Gotta keep those profits up...

    Could you elaborate on those regulations? And also could you elaborate on the cause of the stagflation of the 70's? My guess is you were not alive during this time and choose to ignore it because it disagrees with your world view. This is a typical rewriting of history.
    I am a lot older that what you may think, and yes, I was very much alive back then...

    I suppose Clinton ending all those regulations just happily slipped your mind also?
    Where did I say Clinton was the patron saint of all that is good?
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS1 View Post
    Do you even know who Reagan's vice president was?
    not sure -- but was it the fellow from Skull and Bones who put his "manhood" in a trust ???

    Is there a prize I win ???

    (If its a bicycle I want a red one !!)
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    So Teddy Roosevelt, a good republican, provided the impetus for progressivism, busted trusts and wanted to give people a "fair shake". McKinley, who is held up by many conservatives, presided over a tax rate of 50%. This country succeeded because of a combination of government and business, at a time when businesses weren't sending jobs overseas and had a commitment to the population instead of to shareholders. I realize that simplification is the easiest argument for conservatives, but that minimizes the need for the truth.
    Ahh yes, I heard Lincoln was a Republican too. I thought Republicans were racist? So I can't simplify history into a series of D's and R's? Aww, that requires actual understanding.

    How did the government side of that combination contribute? Please, I'm on the edge of my seat.

    Ohh, and now we see the true side of davidra. Sending jobs to those evil foreigners living in poverty! What happened to helping the poor? I guess it's only virtuous when we collect the money at a barrel of a gun siphon 50% for "administration" then **** it out to dictators so they can buy more guns, rather than let companies move in and build infrastructure and improve productivity voluntarily. Can't have the market do anything right!
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS1 View Post
    Ahh yes, I heard Lincoln was a Republican too. I thought Republicans were racist? So I can't simplify history into a series of D's and R's? Aww, that requires actual understanding.

    How did the government side of that combination contribute? Please, I'm on the edge of my seat.

    Ohh, and now we see the true side of davidra. Sending jobs to those evil foreigners living in poverty! What happened to helping the poor? I guess it's only virtuous when we collect the money at a barrel of a gun siphon 50% for "administration" then **** it out to dictators so they can buy more guns, rather than let companies move in and build infrastructure and improve productivity voluntarily. Can't have the market do anything right!
    Please let me know where I said all republicans were racist.
    I would rather take care of the poor in my country first, especially in a situation where jobs for our citizens are trucked overseas ONLY for the profit of corporations. Guess I'm just patriotic. Yeah, those companies have really built a lot of infrastructure. They must be patriotic too, right? Giving money to dictators? You mean Reagan and Iran-Contra, I guess?
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS1 View Post
    ...Sending jobs to those evil foreigners living in poverty!...
    At the cost of our own middle class? If sending our jobs out to "poor foreigners" is so good, why is it when they come here and take the jobs we do not want to do so bad?
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    At the cost of our own middle class? If sending our jobs out to "poor foreigners" is so good, why is it when they come here and take the jobs we do not want to do so bad?
    Our? Who is this our?

    Why make the distinction at the nation? Why not the state? Florida should kick out all the Georgians. It would improve our economy! Dey takin' our jerbs! I love foreigners coming here. I have called conservatives out on it many times. It's not any different than corporations moving there, and desirable in both circumstances.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Please let me know where I said all republicans were racist.
    I would rather take care of the poor in my country first, especially in a situation where jobs for our citizens are trucked overseas ONLY for the profit of corporations. Guess I'm just patriotic. Yeah, those companies have really built a lot of infrastructure. They must be patriotic too, right? Giving money to dictators? You mean Reagan and Iran-Contra, I guess?
    So Reagan using the government to waste tax money makes your argument that the government should have more money stronger? Pardon my ignance, but elaborate.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS1 View Post
    So Reagan using the government to waste tax money makes your argument that the government should have more money stronger? Pardon my ignance, but elaborate.
    Oh. I just assumed you were like the vast majority of reactionary conservatives, to whom Reagan was the second coming of Christ, instead of the absurd cowboy who wrecked the economy. Sorry about that assumption. My suspicion is that the current president has much better judgement. You do agree we need a president, right?
  19.    #79  
    List of recessions in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    based on info,, somewhat limited when you go back to the earlier years of the US, I does not seem to matter free market or not,, recessions and depressions seem to come and go fairly regularly.. so much for free market not allowing this sort of thing from happening
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS1 View Post
    Actually my point was government rarely if ever completes anything with a modicum of efficiency.
    This has been my montra for years...

    I've asked the good people of these boards many times to provide a list of programs and services that government does well, without waste, quickly and efficiently, etc... I never get an answer.
Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Posting Permissions