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  1.    #1  
    Of course they do. Opportunist hypocrites. Hey...I guess they're all statists.

    Conservatives seek gov't solutions after oil spill - Yahoo! News

    Ben Brooks, a lawyer and Republican state senator from coastal Alabama, says he's no fan of big government but he expects an aggressive federal response as a gunky oil spill threatens the Gulf of Mexico.
    "There's nothing inherently contradictory in saying we believe in smaller government and demanding that the government protect public safety," Brooks said.
    All along the Gulf Coast, where the tea party thrives and "socialism" is a common description for any government program, conservatives who usually denounce federal activism suddenly are clamoring for it.
    Take Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, a Republican elected in 2007 when Democrat Kathleen Blanco opted not to seek re-election after she was widely panned for a bumbling response to Hurricane Katrina two years earlier.
    Since April 20, when a gulf rig exploded and blew out an underwater oil well about 50 miles south of Louisiana, Jindal has been a ubiquitous presence in the fishing communities and barrier islands along his state's fragile coastline. He's been out on boats and up in Black Hawk helicopters, doors open, to survey the spreading, rust-colored swath of crude.
    Jindal, a possible 2012 presidential candidate, has demanded a stronger response from the Obama administration, accusing the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers of dragging its feet in approving Louisiana's plans for protective berms — a plan that took three weeks to approve.
    "This oil threatens not only our coast and our wetlands, this oil fundamentally threatens our way of life in southeastern Louisiana," Jindal said last week.
    Jindal is a fiscal conservative who made headlines last year by rejecting some federal stimulus money, then distributing other stimulus funds by handing out oversized cardboard checks to local officials.
  2. #2  
    Tell you what... get the Federal government to give all the money that it receives from oil to the states that bring it in, and we'll just shut up and be about our business.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  3. Micael's Avatar
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    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Of course they do. Opportunist hypocrites. Hey...I guess they're all statists.

    Conservatives seek gov't solutions after oil spill - Yahoo! News
    There's progressives on both sides....
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    There's progressives on both sides....

    Please tell me you are calling Jindal and Haley Barbour progressives....that will make my day.
  5. Micael's Avatar
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Please tell me you are calling Jindal and Haley Barbour progressives....that will make my day.
    Scott Brown and John McCain are Progressive Republicans.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. #6  
    Whats with this progressive bs? HAve you reviewed the historical context on who they were, and why are liberals wanting to be called a progressive?

    As to the op, there is not ONE republican or conservative who has ever advocated NO govt involvement, not even folks like linbaugh and hannity. Folks advocate LIMITED govt involvement and to carryout its constitutional duty ie; securing borders, and getting involved in something of the magnitude of a freaking disaster ie; oil spill in federal waters, etc.

    Most object in the originally constitutional limited federal govt gaining more and more powers from the states and shifting back to a powerful central govt we broke away from after the American Revolutionary War.

    Govt should provide TEMPORARY help, but politicians on bothsides have corrupted the best system known to mankind and until AMERICANS read the constitution, get involved and take back the govt, we are doomed to fail with all the koom bahya attitudes running the country.

    Its one thing to not see ANY common sense or civility in govt, but to see Americans travel this road will lead to our demise sooner than later.
  7. solarus's Avatar
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    #7  
    Being Conservative (fiscally at least) doesn't mean you are for no government roles whatsoever. It means you support smaller and efficient government whose role is somewhat limited. Regulations on the financial markets to ensure equal access to information and reasonable rules such as Glass-Steal, for example are prudent but capping CEO pay just because they work at a Bank is not. Having rules in place to govern the safety (personnel and environmental) of oil fields is prudent but using an oil spill as an excuse to add another tax on the industry, which will only be passed down to the consumer, is not. The Federal government using its authority to allow insurance companies to compete across state lines is prudent, mandating that anyone as an individual has to buy insurance is not.

    Being Conservative is not the same as being Libertarian. I think you need to understand that davidra.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by solarus View Post
    Being Conservative is not the same as being Libertarian.
    These days, being 'libertarian' is not the same as being L/libertarian. The anarcho-capitalists seem to have co-opted the term/had it co-opted for them.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  9. Micael's Avatar
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    #9  
    Nobody said anything about no role whatsoever. But the Republicans that look to the fed government to "fix things" are what many of us call Progressives.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    These days, being 'libertarian' is not the same as being L/libertarian. The anarcho-capitalists seem to have co-opted the term/had it co-opted for them.
    Who, outside of academia, in a self-avowed anarcho-capitalist.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Of course they do. Opportunist hypocrites. Hey...I guess they're all statists.

    Conservatives seek gov't solutions after oil spill - Yahoo! News
    No, this is a problem where government should be involved in creating a solution. It would do a better job if it was focusing on the roles it is supposed to play instead of wasting resources building a nanny state.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Who, outside of academia, in a self-avowed anarcho-capitalist.
    The stereotypes that the 'progressives' like to point to when they accuse 'libertarians' of being foolish dreamers who worship at the altar of business.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Nobody said anything about no role whatsoever. But the Republicans that look to the fed government to "fix things" are what many of us call Progressives.
    Well, your topic and lead in 1st sentence is misleading at best in my opinion.

    I am a registered republican, but independent voter. No one should ever be loyal to a freaking party....since I am a fiscal hawk and more moderate on social issues, I think one should do their research on all candidates before casting a vote.

    If you are a party thumper, then the politicians got you right where they need you....I wish we had term limits like states and will refocus on taking away much of the powers accummulated by the feds since 1913 and the 16th amendment.
    Last edited by RoverNole; 06/04/2010 at 06:09 PM.
  14. #14  
    God I hate politics!!!!
  15. groovy's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    The stereotypes that the 'progressives' like to point to when they accuse 'libertarians' of being foolish dreamers who worship at the altar of business.
    First, admittedly, my questions was phrased poorly. I wanted to ask who, outside of academia, is a self-avowed anarcho-capitalist? So, are you saying the anarcho-capitalists co-opted the term? Or progressives labeled some idealized anarcho-capitalist philosophy as libertarian, and it stuck?

    If the latter, then I agree completely. But, it's not in the "progressives" best interest to make the distinction.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    First, admittedly, my questions was phrased poorly. I wanted to ask who, outside of academia, is a self-avowed anarcho-capitalist?
    I don't think the term is common enough to have many self-avowed users. I haven't heard of many self-identified minarchists either.
    So, are you saying the anarcho-capitalists co-opted the term?
    I think there are a fair number of self-identified 'libertarians' these days that can only be fairly considered libertarians in the anarcho-capitalist sense. I don't consider them purely anarcho-capitalist, because often they are socially conservative as well.
    Or progressives labeled some idealized anarcho-capitalist philosophy as libertarian, and it stuck?
    I've seen quite a few recent posts referring to 'libertarian' ideals that really only apply to anarcho-capitalists.
    If the latter, then I agree completely. But, it's not in the "progressives" best interest to make the distinction.
    No, because making the distinction leads to actually having to consider what someone thinks rather than what you can suggest they think. Personally, I'm not really a Rand Paul supporter, but I don't think he's getting a fair shake either.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  17. rjwerth's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Of course they do. Opportunist hypocrites. Hey...I guess they're all statists.
    Well, I guess if you don't understand why conservatives just want the government to obey the constitution, you wouldn't understand this either. I'm not at all surprised.

    You have a destroyed oil rig run by a foreign company in international waters creating havoc to multiple states. This is what the Feds SHOULD be dealing with rather than trying to find more and more reasons to take our money away.

    But, I have full confidence that they will screw this up (or should I say CONTINUE to screw this up) just like everything else they touch.

    Although finding hypocrites in government is like finding flies in a manure farm, I don't find that to be the case here......
  18. Micael's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by RoverNole View Post
    Well, your topic and lead in 1st sentence is misleading at best in my opinion.
    I think you got me confused with the OP. Not my topic - I'm just the resident opinionated thread crapper this round.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by rjwerth View Post
    Well, I guess if you don't understand why conservatives just want the government to obey the constitution, you wouldn't understand this either. I'm not at all surprised.

    You have a destroyed oil rig run by a foreign company in international waters creating havoc to multiple states. This is what the Feds SHOULD be dealing with rather than trying to find more and more reasons to take our money away.

    But, I have full confidence that they will screw this up (or should I say CONTINUE to screw this up) just like everything else they touch.

    Although finding hypocrites in government is like finding flies in a manure farm, I don't find that to be the case here......
    Of course you don't. The right has the market on hypocrisy cornered, no matter what the topic. What we have is a business that bought and paid for regulators under previous administrations that has demonstrated their incompetence and greed at the expense of massive numbers of jobs and the environment. And what is happening? The republicans are being bought out by big oil right now to avoid strict limitations on their "business", and that includes governors. Your private enterprise is spending millions on PRPRPR $and$ $distributing$ $billions$ $to$ $shareholders$ $while$ $shutting$ $down$ $the$ $people$ $who$'$s$ $lives$ $they$ $destroyed$. $And$ $Obama$? $He$ $is$ $shining$ $a$ $light$ $on$ $their$ $practices$. $The$ $future$? $The$ $right$ $will$ $do$ $everything$ $they$ $can$ $to$ $block$ $controls$ $that$ $will$ $help$ $decrease$ $the$ $future$ &$quot$;$havoc$&$quot$;. $Wanna$ $bet$?
  20. rjwerth's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Of course you don't. The right has the market on hypocrisy cornered, no matter what the topic. What we have is a business that bought and paid for regulators under previous administrations that has demonstrated their incompetence and greed at the expense of massive numbers of jobs and the environment. And what is happening? The republicans are being bought out by big oil right now to avoid strict limitations on their "business", and that includes governors. Your private enterprise is spending millions on PRPRPR $and$ $distributing$ $billions$ $to$ $shareholders$ $while$ $shutting$ $down$ $the$ $people$ $who$'$s$ $lives$ $they$ $destroyed$. $And$ $Obama$? $He$ $is$ $shining$ $a$ $light$ $on$ $their$ $practices$. $The$ $future$? $The$ $right$ $will$ $do$ $everything$ $they$ $can$ $to$ $block$ $controls$ $that$ $will$ $help$ $decrease$ $the$ $future$ &$quot$;$havoc$&$quot$;. $Wanna$ $bet$?
    Not that any of the above is relevant to the people you have cited in your OP but hold that thought for a bit. Let's just sit back and watch what your lovable democratic run house, senate, and white house does over the next 6 months and we'll see who's paying whom off. I'm sure everything will be perfect....just like the economy! We'll have spent billions and have nothing to show for it except for the left saying "You think it's bad now? You can't imagine what it would have been like if it weren't for us!"
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