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  1. Micael's Avatar
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       #1  
    So much for "hope and change". And before you shoot the messenger, Peggy Noonan was a supporter of Obama when he ran for president. She was one of the few Conservative writers that came out supporting him. She's since changed her tune.

    She really nails it with this weeks commentary in the WSJ:
    ----------

    He Was Supposed to Be Competent
    The spill is a disaster for the president and his political philosophy.
    By PEGGY NOONAN

    I don't see how the president's position and popularity can survive the oil spill. This is his third political disaster in his first 18 months in office. And they were all, as they say, unforced errors, meaning they were shaped by the president's political judgment and instincts.

    There was the tearing and unnecessary war over his health-care proposal and its cost. There was his day-to-day indifference to the views and hopes of the majority of voters regarding illegal immigration. And now the past almost 40 days of dodging and dithering in the face of an environmental calamity. I don't see how you politically survive this.

    The president, in my view, continues to govern in a way that suggests he is chronically detached from the central and immediate concerns of his countrymen. This is a terrible thing to see in a political figure, and a startling thing in one who won so handily and shrewdly in 2008. But he has not, almost from the day he was inaugurated, been in sync with the center. The heart of the country is thinking each day about A, B and C, and he is thinking about X, Y and Z. They're in one reality, he's in another.

    President Obama promised on Thursday to hold BP accountable in the catastrophic Gulf of Mexico oil spill and said his administration would do everything necessary to protect and restore the coast.

    The American people have spent at least two years worrying that high government spending would, in the end, undo the republic. They saw the dollars gushing night and day, and worried that while everything looked the same on the surface, our position was eroding. They have worried about a border that is in some places functionally and of course illegally open, that it too is gushing night and day with problems that states, cities and towns there cannot solve.

    And now we have a videotape metaphor for all the public's fears: that clip we see every day, on every news show, of the well gushing black oil into the Gulf of Mexico and toward our shore. You actually don't get deadlier as a metaphor for the moment than that, the monster that lives deep beneath the sea.

    In his news conference Thursday, President Obama made his position no better. He attempted to act out passionate engagement through the use of heightened language—"catastrophe," etc.—but repeatedly took refuge in factual minutiae. His staff probably thought this demonstrated his command of even the most obscure facts. Instead it made him seem like someone who won't see the big picture. The unspoken mantra in his head must have been, "I will not be defensive, I will not give them a resentful soundbite." But his strategic problem was that he'd already lost the battle. If the well was plugged tomorrow, the damage will already have been done.

    The original sin in my view is that as soon as the oil rig accident happened the president tried to maintain distance between the gusher and his presidency. He wanted people to associate the disaster with BP and not him. When your most creative thoughts in the middle of a disaster revolve around protecting your position, you are summoning trouble. When you try to dodge ownership of a problem, when you try to hide from responsibility, life will give you ownership and responsibility the hard way. In any case, the strategy was always a little mad. Americans would never think an international petroleum company based in London would worry as much about American shores and wildlife as, say, Americans would. They were never going to blame only BP, or trust it.

    I wonder if the president knows what a disaster this is not only for him but for his political assumptions. His philosophy is that it is appropriate for the federal government to occupy a more burly, significant and powerful place in America—confronting its problems of need, injustice, inequality. But in a way, and inevitably, this is always boiled down to a promise: "Trust us here in Washington, we will prove worthy of your trust." Then the oil spill came and government could not do the job, could not meet need, in fact seemed faraway and incapable: "We pay so much for the government and it can't cap an undersea oil well!"

    This is what happened with Katrina, and Katrina did at least two big things politically. The first was draw together everything people didn't like about the Bush administration, everything it didn't like about two wars and high spending and illegal immigration, and brought those strands into a heavy knot that just sat there, soggily, and came to symbolize Bushism. The second was illustrate that even though the federal government in our time has continually taken on new missions and responsibilities, the more it took on, the less it seemed capable of performing even its most essential jobs. Conservatives got this point—they know it without being told—but liberals and progressives did not. They thought Katrina was the result only of George W. Bush's incompetence and conservatives' failure to "believe in government." But Mr. Obama was supposed to be competent.

    Remarkable too is the way both BP and the government, 40 days in, continue to act shocked, shocked that an accident like this could have happened. If you're drilling for oil in the deep sea, of course something terrible can happen, so you have a plan on what to do when it does.

    How could there not have been a plan? How could it all be so ad hoc, so inadequate, so embarrassing? We're plugging it now with tires, mud and golf balls?

    What continues to fascinate me is Mr. Obama's standing with Democrats. They don't love him. Half the party voted for Hillary Clinton, and her people have never fully reconciled themselves to him. But he is what they have. They are invested in him. In time—after the 2010 elections go badly—they are going to start to peel off. The political operative James Carville, the most vocal and influential of the president's Gulf critics, signaled to Democrats this week that they can start to peel off. He did it through the passion of his denunciations.

    The disaster in the Gulf may well spell the political end of the president and his administration, and that is no cause for joy. It's not good to have a president in this position—weakened, polarizing and lacking broad public support—less than halfway through his term. That it is his fault is no comfort. It is not good for the stability of the world, or its safety, that the leader of "the indispensble nation" be so weakened. I never until the past 10 years understood the almost moral imperative that an American president maintain a high standing in the eyes of his countrymen.

    Mr. Obama himself, when running for president, made much of Bush administration distraction and detachment during Katrina. Now the Republican Party will, understandably, go to town on Mr. Obama's having gone only once to the gulf, and the fund-raiser in San Francisco that seemed to take precedence, and the EPA chief who went to a New York fund-raiser in the middle of the disaster.

    But Republicans should beware, and even mute their mischief. We're in the middle of an actual disaster. When they win back the presidency, they'll probably get the big California earthquake. And they'll probably blow it. Because, ironically enough, of a hard core of truth within their own philosophy: when you ask a government far away in Washington to handle everything, it will handle nothing well.

    ###
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  2. #2  
    Given that Peggy Noonan is a suit at the Manhattan Institute I can't imagine she would think anything different.

    Didn't she also campaign for W?
    Sprint|Samsung Epic
  3. Micael's Avatar
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       #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    Given that Peggy Noonan is a suit at the Manhattan Institute I can't imagine she would think anything different.

    Didn't she also campaign for W?
    She was a speechwriter for Reagan. She deserted Bush about midway I think.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4. #4  
    I still look at my "Nobama" countdown app on my Pre every day... at least gives me something to feel positive about.
    My device history:

    - Jim J.

    (On Sprint for many years)
  5. #5  
    Interesting how many critics were perfectly content to accept the risk of massive oil leaks and spills with minimum government intervention just, oh, five weeks ago or so--all to make a barely discernible blip in the Hubbert Peak. Now that they're insta-Rachel Carsons, please pardon me for being cynical.

    Personally, I think the analogy between the Deepwater Horizon and Hurricane Katrina is pretty weak. The latter was a natural disaster that was considered a likely occurrence well in advance, and for which there were well-established emergency/evacuation/rebuilding protocols on the state and federal level, and in the public and private sectors. The Gulf leak is an unprecedented man-made disaster that occurred on leased, and therefore de facto private, property, and those with the technology most able to fix it are the same entities that caused it in the first place.

    The government is in a much more awkward position with the oil spill. They need to work with BP et al., but they need to protect the national interest. Obama explicitly took full responsibility for any errors yesterday (even though I'd argue that he's hardly fully responsible--see above), and he was critical of the gaps in his administration's response, a reaction that was rarely, if ever, seen under the last president. This is a sad situation all around. Give the man a break.
  6. srswarley's Avatar
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    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    Interesting how many critics were perfectly content to accept the risk of massive oil leaks and spills with minimum government intervention just, oh, five weeks ago or so--all to make a barely discernible blip in the Hubbert Peak. Now that they're insta-Rachel Carsons, please pardon me for being cynical.

    Personally, I think the analogy between the Deepwater Horizon and Hurricane Katrina is pretty weak. The latter was a natural disaster that was considered a likely occurrence well in advance, and for which there were well-established emergency/evacuation/rebuilding protocols on the state and federal level, and in the public and private sectors. The Gulf leak is an unprecedented man-made disaster that occurred on leased, and therefore de facto private, property, and those with the technology most able to fix it are the same entities that caused it in the first place.

    The government is in a much more awkward position with the oil spill. They need to work with BP et al., but they need to protect the national interest. He took full responsibility yesterday (even though he's not fully responsible--see above), and he was critical of the gaps in his administration's response, a reaction that was rarely, if ever, seen under the last president. This is a sad situation all around. Give the man a break.
    Here here! The oil spill wasn't nearly his fault as President. The safety measures that failed, were the parties' included fault. This is a disaster, a world-wide disaster in that it could happen any where (can anyone say Venezuela? Google: Aban Pearl). We should all stop pointing fingers and blame and just get our sh** done and try to avoid as much damage as we can.
  7. Micael's Avatar
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       #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by bsburnham View Post
    Here here! The oil spill wasn't nearly his fault as President. The safety measures that failed, were the parties' included fault. This is a disaster, a world-wide disaster in that it could happen any where (can anyone say Venezuela? Google: Aban Pearl). We should all stop pointing fingers and blame and just get our sh** done and try to avoid as much damage as we can.
    Nobody is blaming him for the spill. It's his detachment along with his rush to lynch BP right out of the gate.... meanwhile those 'in charge' go on vacation.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by jjeffcoat View Post
    I still look at my "Nobama" countdown app on my Pre every day... at least gives me something to feel positive about.
    I gotta get me one of them thar programs!
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  9. #9  
    What I thought was funny was when he said yesterday, "My job right now is just to make sure that everybody in the Gulf understands, this is what I wake to in the morning and this is what I go to bed at night thinking about." Sounds pretty sincere, huh? Well, he keeps reusing his sincerity.

    Earlier this year, the WH Press Secretary said that Obama "Wakes up in the morning and he goes to bed at night thinking about how to make people's lives better, how to create that environment for creating jobs."

    And then on National Security, Obama said last year: "My greatest responsiblity is the security of the American people. It's the first thing I think about when I wake up in the morning. It's the last thing I think about when I go to sleep at night."

    So, which is really the first and last thing he thinks about in the morning and at night? Not all of these can be the first or the last, LOL. What a goof head. At least use some different lines to show his fake sincerity....good grief man. Seems like the guy putting these lines in the teleprompter should remember them....or maybe....these are just "off the cuff" comments and those tend to always come back and bite him.

    This whole "change we can count on" and a "different kind of Washington" was just a bunch of BS and it is amazing how many people bought it. Oh sure, there is change to an amazingly liberal agenda and turning us down the road towards socialism....but I don't think that is the change that everyone thought was coming. As for a different Washington? Please....the guy brought Chicago style politics into the White House and it ain't pretty. Of course trying to bribe someone to drop from a Senate race is fine.....I mean....that is normal in Chicago, right? ROFL
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Interestingly, that "hackjob" is from a past supporter and admirer. The tides are turning and the Dems will soon start to jump from his sinking ship. It's his own fault. The guy is not competent.
    you say this like it matters if he is competent. Boosh was far less competent. At least the guy obama put in charge has done more than manage horse races. BP has already broken laws reguarding the spill. Anyone care to think what would happen if the drill baby drill team was heading this effort?
    I don't understand why the people who are constantly calling for smaller government can sit there and say in this instance he should do more, but health care shouldn't be touched. I guess some want their cake and be able to eat it too.
  11. #11  
    I can't wait until this administration is gone so we can go back to: less war, no natural or man mad disasters, no economic problems, no immigration challenges, no debt, perfect health care, smaller government that works for the people, lower taxes, perfect transparency. Although I think the movie 2012 is going to cancel all the above out.
  12. #12  
    The irony of Peggy Noonan using the phrase "tearing and unnecessary war" to describe an domestic policy dispute, when we have lost thousands of American soliders and have caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in an actual tearing and unnecessary war with real bombs and bullets whose presidential architect was championed by the self-same Peggy Noonan, is mind-boggling. That the BP disaster was likely enabled by the failures of the lax regulators under that president just adds to the irony.

    I know critics of President Obama are trying to find any lever to compare him to the failures of George W. Bush, but it's just not rational. BP was allowed to drill in mile-deep water without *any* proven means of dealing with disasters at that depth. Whatever the Obama Administration *wants* to do (or wants BP to do), that physical reality is why we still have oil flowing into the Gulf of Mexico.

    Kudos to the president for actually accepting responsibility for the disaster, even if he has no personal blame for why it happened or cannot currently be fixed. Unlike George W. Bush, President Obama is not at a loss when asked to name his mistakes either. {Jonathan}
    Prof. Jonathan I. Ezor
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  13. Micael's Avatar
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       #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by ariker01 View Post
    I can't wait until this administration is gone so we can go back to: less war, no natural or man mad disasters, no economic problems, no immigration challenges, no debt, perfect health care, smaller government that works for the people, lower taxes, perfect transparency. Although I think the movie 2012 is going to cancel all the above out.
    Ok, so I guess you're saying Obama is more of the same we've always had. Same thing, different guy at the helm? What happened to hope and change?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  14. #14  
    where was that?
  15. #15  
    I miss the good ole days when we had that genius George W Bush running things, now that was a competent president. Three days for helicopters to drop water to the SuperDome after Katrina, and NO WEAPONS of mass destruction found, with a war that costing us billions with NO end i site. Yep, lets bring back the good ole days.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    you say this like it matters if he is competent. Boosh was far less competent. At least the guy obama put in charge has done more than manage horse races. BP has already broken laws reguarding the spill. Anyone care to think what would happen if the drill baby drill team was heading this effort?
    I don't understand why the people who are constantly calling for smaller government can sit there and say in this instance he should do more, but health care shouldn't be touched. I guess some want their cake and be able to eat it too.
    The problem here is that the government is standing in the way of the cleanup efforts. Because the government has regulated this at nauseum all efforts to clean it up must be run up the bureacratic chain of command and containment measures that the governor of Louisianna would like to be putting into place must also be done with permission from the Feds. All of this slows down the process. Our president has shown little concern. This underscores the need for smaller federal government. The problem is that our government continues to regulate beyond what they can effectively enforce and then are incompetent to solve problems becomming entangled in their own red tape. Those who DO care in government largely have their hands tied. Obama on the other hand has been aloof. I do think he is far too concerned with fundamentally reshaping our country for the future than actually governing the Republic that he has been elected to and sworn to protect. I also frequently check the NOBAMA app.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    Personally, I think the analogy between the Deepwater Horizon and Hurricane Katrina is pretty weak.
    Anyone who thinks this really doesn't understand what happened during Katrina and obviously doesn't live in the areas affected by both.
    The latter was a natural disaster that was considered a likely occurrence well in advance, and for which there were well-established emergency/evacuation/rebuilding protocols on the state and federal level, and in the public and private sectors.
    Except that it wasn't. What we have come to know as "Hurricane Katrina" was not in fact due to the hurricane. The worst case scenarios that have been forwarded on hurricanes and New Orleans always involve a slow-moving category 3 or higher storm along Betsy's path putting a lot of water down. New Orleans floods from rain water in certain sectors during regular rain, so a slow moving storm along Betsy's path dropping rain along with a storm surge giving the pumps nowhere to go with it would be catastrophic. That was not remotely what Katrina the storm did. Katrina was a purely man-made disaster. If the levees had been built to the specifications to which they supposedly were, you'd likely heard as little about Katrina as you probably did about Rita, Gustav, Ike, et al.
    The Gulf leak is an unprecedented man-made disaster that occurred on leased, and therefore de facto private, property, and those with the technology most able to fix it are the same entities that caused it in the first place.
    Since when is leased property private property? If I lease a car, am I not required to have certain levels of insurance and certain terms for which I must pay penalties if I don't meet them? If I lease a house, does the owner of the house get absolved of any responsibility?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  18. #18  
    funny you should say that we been at war since the first bush took office. And if we were to pull out our troops now all the troops that died would be in vain my friend.












    Quote Originally Posted by ariker01 View Post
    I can't wait until this administration is gone so we can go back to: less war, no natural or man mad disasters, no economic problems, no immigration challenges, no debt, perfect health care, smaller government that works for the people, lower taxes, perfect transparency. Although I think the movie 2012 is going to cancel all the above out.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by blaine2864 View Post
    I miss the good ole days when we had that genius George W Bush running things, now that was a competent president. Three days for helicopters to drop water to the SuperDome after Katrina, and NO WEAPONS of mass destruction found, with a war that costing us billions with NO end i site. Yep, lets bring back the good ole days.
    What you are underscoring here is that no President, Senate, House or court system is competant to do for everyone what we cannot do for ourselves. It would be far better for everyone if we were empowered by our government to take care of ourselves, our families, and our communities rather than to rely on politicians who are hold up in their own fantasy worlds writing law after law that we have to figure out how to best function within while they are unable to satisfactorily enforce the laws they've already written.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Ok, so I guess you're saying Obama is more of the same we've always had. Same thing, different guy at the helm? What happened to hope and change?
    Hope and change are two different meanings. I hope to live in a better world. One way I am going to change this is by helping.

    Volunteer - National Wildlife Federation

    There is plenty of blame to go around (it's politics) Blame will be assessed in the months and years to come. Right now lets work on the problem at hand.

    Hope and change can't be left to politicians. It's everyones responsibility.
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