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  1. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #341  
    Quote Originally Posted by tcrunner View Post
    TARP is not included in the previous administration's total because it was bridged over the term of 2 different presidents. If you knew the Treasury record (as much as you claim to know anything), you would know that.
    You stated 1.1 Trillion in bailouts under Bush--I'm not bothering to check your non-specifics. I referring to the numbers you stated. If you choose not to state specifics, don't whine about it. I'm not arguing against whatever you claim the dollar amount under Bush was. I'm pointing out your lie in stating that there was "perfect silence" (no opposition) amongst Conservatives.

    Quote Originally Posted by tcrunner View Post
    Yes, a simple majority approved the investment. The alternative plan by opposition was - what?
    Well, apparently, it would be to not have a bailout.

    Quote Originally Posted by tcrunner View Post
    Since I'm no propagandist, but just an interested party, do you also imagine Blackhawks hovering over your garage at night?
    Propaganda Alert: Nonsense accusation "question", following on the heels of crying about being belittled.

    Quote Originally Posted by tcrunner View Post
    Again, a simple majority, including large support from Republicans, passed TARP.
    And with significant Republican Opposition--you know the thing you denied existing, by saying there was "perfect silence." Actually, there was public opposition--quite the opposite of what you claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by tcrunner View Post
    Again with the unwarranted, unfounded claim of deceit. I almost feel sorry for you.
    Actually, I said it was ignorance on your part, but you were too eager to follow your script and as a result turned what might have been ignorance into lying.

    Another lesson...when people know you've lied to them (because you've demonstrated it), it is hard to claim innocence, which is of course stating another lie.

    Ok everyone--gotta run, have fun, if you can stomach it.

    KAM
  2. #342  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Oh there is no need to belittle you, when you're providing such a wonderful example all by yourself. But don't be shy about playing victim.



    I refer you again to the opposition of many Congressional Republicans in Congress, who were in many cases responding to their constituents angry phone calls. I really can't help your willful denial of reality.

    One thing to note--in the past, Conservatives weren't very likely to run around in the streets protesting, nor are they prone to throwing hissy fits and breaking windows such is common amongst left wing protesters at G7/8/20 gatherings--for example.

    Again--for those bothering to watch--notice the moving bar. At first the claim was "perfect silence" and when that lie is exposed, it becomes a demand that "rallying" too place, and now "outrage."



    Your premise is based on a lie, and you continue to repeat/maintain it.



    That is an incredibly moronic statement, devoid of reality. A vote OPPOSING something isn't opposition. Staggeringly stupid statement.
    See--I think you're confusing yourself, and tripping over your amorphous "reasoning." Now, actual hard votes against something doesn't qualify as "opposition. That's not even propaganda...its just nonsense.



    That's typically where one is at whilst kicking someone's ***--OH YEAH, BURNED, you got SKOOLD!
    To be clear--that is mockery of the self-congratulatory nonsense seen on the internet. I didn't actually intend to claim any such silliness.



    Propaganda Lesson kids: Note this--first whine about being "belittled" playing the victim and then get right to it. Hypocrisy--not a problem for the liar. The problem again is that the amateur propagandist is easily thrown off their game--contradicting themselves too directly. They haven't learned that hypocrisy and contradiction ARE valuable tools for the propagandist, but they have to be used with some care.



    Again--you passed on the easy route by admitting ignorance and taking a more reasonable line of attack, but you weren't smart enough to take it. I'm doing my best to help you grow as a propagandist, but you're apparently too self-indulgent.



    So, you'll give it a try? I think you've got the drive to be a better propagandist, but not the skills. The funny thing is you haven't even realized what's happened.

    One thing you might learn is that you'll be treated seriously if you deserve it.

    KAM
    It's good like this, that puts a smile on my face.
  3. #343  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    It's good like this, that puts a smile on my face.
    That little red ball has escaped, grown horns, and learned profanity... He's having quite a summer!
  4. #344  
    Quote Originally Posted by joshaccount View Post
    That little red ball has escaped, grown horns, and learned profanity... He's having quite a summer!
    lol
  5. #345  
    Quote Originally Posted by tcrunner View Post
    Agreed. It's most definitely
    Hey, don't try to turn my compliment to KAM around.

    Bad, tcrunner.
    Very bad.















    Very bad.
  6. #346  
    KAM is right about the conservative opposition to the Bush bailouts. Just do a Google news search for "Conservative Bush Bailout" for 2008 and a bunch of news stories pop up showing the opposition.

    My point earlier about the bailout vs Iraq war debt was more about hypocrisy. KAM, Michael and others aren't in this boat because they opposed both (I think?), but there are a large number of conservatives that supported Bush to the end of his term, supporting many things he did, while at the same time bashing Obama for his spending.

    These people are hypocrites.
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
  7. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #347  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    It's good like this, that puts a smile on my face.
    I aim to please.

    KAM
  8. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #348  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    KAM is right about the conservative opposition to the Bush bailouts. Just do a Google news search for "Conservative Bush Bailout" for 2008 and a bunch of news stories pop up showing the opposition.
    No--I can't be right--that other guy said I wasn't, and he's a lot smarter than I am--just ask him. There was only "perfect silence."

    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    My point earlier about the bailout vs Iraq war debt was more about hypocrisy. KAM, Michael and others aren't in this boat because they opposed both (I think?), but there are a large number of conservatives that supported Bush to the end of his term, supporting many things he did, while at the same time bashing Obama for his spending.

    These people are hypocrites.
    There certainly are hypocrites that support wild spending when it benefits them, or is used to pay off interests that they support, so you've got a point there.

    It seems to me that most conservatives, even if they generally supported President Bush were unhappy and disappointed in his spending, and especially in his late term (I think desperate) bailout plans.

    KAM
  9. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #349  
    Quote Originally Posted by tcrunner View Post
    You've proven no such thing. A congressional vote is hardly "opposition". To state such a willfully ignorant idea would also mean that those individual members of that simple majority of Republicans voting 'Nay' on that singular bill have never vote 'Yay" for another. Afterall, but your logic, you've seen one bailout, you've seen 'em all.
    It's called an example, genius. An example that refutes your blundering absolute statement. I'm sure your time will be better spent trying to come up with some other justification for your guy, instead of trying to talk around, and repackage the one you duffed so badly.

    Or, do you NEED to keep trying to prove to yourself how correct you are? Either way, I'm really not interested. You've demonstrated the sort of poster you are, and I'm not eager to waste any more time on you.

    KAM
  10. #350  
    Quote Originally Posted by tcrunner View Post
    Yes and yes. When proof of impropriety can be shown which can demonstrate that the partial use of TARP funds to repay a debt approved by GM's giant legal staff, I'm willing to listen. Chrysler is not in the same boat in that regard.

    First Proof is not necessary for some people. That is obvious by what they have written on here.

    Second, Neither company has repaid the loans fully. GM used TARP to well re-pay TARP and Chrysler repaid it's TARP loan from its Financial arm.

    Third, You haven't even mentioned the bridge loan.
  11. #351  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    It seems to me that most conservatives, even if they generally supported President Bush were unhappy and disappointed in his spending, and especially in his late term (I think desperate) bailout plans.

    KAM
    This is how I would describe a few of my conservative friends during the lame-duck Bush years -- unhappy with his divergence from conservative views. Being neither a conservative nor a liberal, I was acutely aware of the conservative base that turned on GWB when the spending (largely bailouts and the Iraq war) reached "democratic" proportions.
  12. #352  
    $50B with the incoming Admin's nod, I'm sure the repaid with "Interest" covered it though right?

    Oh and call it what you want, lying to the public for pure PRPRPR $propaganda$ $is$ &$quot$;$wrong$&$quot$; $on$ $every$ $level$.
  13. #353  
    Quote Originally Posted by tcrunner View Post
    Since that auto bailout took place before the election, that seems highly doubtful.
    What month do you vote? The rest of the Country votes in November, not December. Admin elect was on board

    Quote Originally Posted by tcrunner View Post
    The private sector doesn't embellish reality to gain buy-in in its ads? I'm not advocating this, but isn't that the truth where consumer products are concerned?
    Since a majority of GM stock is held by .gov I'd hardly call it private, but norm for .gov standards.
  14. #354  
    Quote Originally Posted by tcrunner View Post
    Try Sep 2008 where the auto bailout was included as a small part of the much larger $630B Bush stimulus bill.
    25b Which was to retool lines for better fuel efficiency to meet 2030 standards, included Ford.

    GM was still running their last employee pricing campaign in September 2008.

    All 3 wanted an additional 25b to stay afloat, that's when the hearings began and drug into Dec. Ford wised up and dropped out.

    Quote Originally Posted by tcrunner View Post
    Any cheap excuse will do for partisanship, won't it?
    No partisanship here, I don't care who's in control corruption is just as bad. Since when does the truth = a cheap excuse.
  15. #355  
    Quote Originally Posted by tcrunner View Post
    Explaining their internal purposes for the dough doesn't change the calendar.
    Who's purpose? That's how it came from congress 25b worth of low interest loans to the big 3 to help them meet the 2030 requirements, to retool their lines not meet there payrolls. In fact Bush wanted to change it's purpose after it was passed so the 2nd 25b wouldn't be necessary, but congress blocked it. I personally don't think that they were entitled to any money, but they were technically not allowed to use that money as a bailout per say.

    Quote Originally Posted by tcrunner View Post
    Ford didn't wise up. They retooled themselves because they could remain solvent on their own terms. GM and Chrysler did not have that option available to them. The previous administration agreed.
    Ford was already doing what they needed to be doing to stay solvent, as GM and Chrysler should have been. They were looking to take advantage until they realized what that meant.

    Quote Originally Posted by tcrunner View Post
    What constitutes just consumer advertising which is always subject to exaggeration, and what constitutes a lie to the public is not something where the wrong can be defined in this example. Call it a difference of opinion and be done with it?
    If GM was a publicly traded company and not owned by .gov I would agree with you, but such is not the case.
  16. #356  
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  17. Micael's Avatar
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       #357  
    I think you've put your thumb on something; a new trend? "increasingly conservative" -ism seems to be on the rise.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  18. #358  
    Quote Originally Posted by tcrunner View Post
    An Op-Ed by the increasingly conservative Howard
    What exactly makes him categorizable as 'increasingly conservative'? Where on the spectrum do you suggest this puts him now?
    disguised as more disasters? Please.
    You appear to be confusing me with Micael. Neither I nor Fineman called anything a disaster. The crises/challenges do seem to be stacking up, though.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  19. #359  
    Quote Originally Posted by tcrunner View Post
    "There's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says, fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me uuuuhh, you can't get fooled again."
    That is absolutely one of the funniest things to watch....I'm being sincere....I'm in tears (from laughing) whenever I watch that. Whenever I say this, the liberals jump all over me, but I liked George Bush as a person because he seemed like a regular guy. He made his share of mistakes when speaking in public and I can certainly relate that. Liberals get on my case about this because they always say "I don't want a regular person as the President, I want someone better than that". Of course, Obama is only the "cool, smooth guy" when he is on the teleprompter. They don't allow him to "wing it" too often because he usually ends up saying something goofy or what he truly feels (you know, "spread the wealth around" type of things), which is often not good. Same thing with Biden, at least he is a regular guy, going around putting his foot in his mouth and saying stupid things. That doesn't mean he is a stupid person, just not the fastest guy on his feet or the smoothiest guy. That's just who he is and he isn't trying to be someone different. Oops....dang....I think I just complimented Biden (grrrrrrrrrr).
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  20. #360  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    That is absolutely one of the funniest things to watch....I'm being sincere....I'm in tears (from laughing) whenever I watch that. Whenever I say this, the liberals jump all over me, but I liked George Bush as a person because he seemed like a regular guy. He made his share of mistakes when speaking in public and I can certainly relate that. Liberals get on my case about this because they always say "I don't want a regular person as the President, I want someone better than that". Of course, Obama is only the "cool, smooth guy" when he is on the teleprompter. They don't allow him to "wing it" too often because he usually ends up saying something goofy or what he truly feels (you know, "spread the wealth around" type of things), which is often not good. Same thing with Biden, at least he is a regular guy, going around putting his foot in his mouth and saying stupid things. That doesn't mean he is a stupid person, just not the fastest guy on his feet or the smoothiest guy. That's just who he is and he isn't trying to be someone different. Oops....dang....I think I just complimented Biden (grrrrrrrrrr).
    I get killed for this by my wacko liberal friends. I'm not a republican, but I like GWB. Most of the time he is not the smartest person in the room, which is fine. I don't want my president to be the smartest person in the room, that's what a cabinet is for. If the pres is a genius, why have a cabinet, so the president can advise them?? I respected GWB for his convictions, which I believe is an absolute requirement for leadership. I disagreed with him often, but I understood he believed he was doing what was necessary and right when making tough decisions (even if those decisions later turned out to be poorly made, which happened). So I know exactly how you feel. There is a non-elitist quality to him that I appreciate, and my lib friends continue to grill me on this subject.

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