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  1. #181  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    So that the government can have enough around to clean up after big oil, I"m sure you won't mind paying a little more in taxes, right?
    I thought I was going to be asked to pay more for health care, for tax and trade, and who knows what else? So yes, I do mind paying a little more in taxes. However, I might consider donating some money to help save/clean up some birds, turtles, and other animals.
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  2. #182  
    I am disappointed in the lack of transparency that was promised, as well as the administration painting a rosy picture over the facts. For instance, 150k jobs have to be created every month to match the birth rate, that's a stat that is sorely missing from the jobs reports. The backroom deals on healthcare when it was supposed to be televised. The media's three page articles on how the flow of oil has been stopped from the deepwater horizon oil spill and failing to mention it was for 30 seconds that they had success. NOAA and the Coast Guard boasting about their successes and defending using the gulf as a testing ground for dispersants.
    I'm pretty sure this administration ripped a page from the Bush playbook:
    “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
    I guess it's just the American way to point the finger at somebody else. It's sickening, it would be nice to have leaders that take accountability and quit passing the buck.
  3. #183  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    [...] If they actually looked at what the government has done, such as the White House response I posted a few days ago, the government has done a whole lot. [...]
    Considering how the timeline and previous claims they released conflict with Coast Guard logs, how can one buy completely into what they say they've 'done'.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  4. #184  
    Oops....I spoke too soon. Was watching CNBC and one of the guests (didn't catch his name, grrrrr) with Larry Kudlow actually blamed the Bush Administration twice for the oil disaster. The other guest asked "Exactly when does Obama become President? In 2011? In 2012?" To which Larry Kudlow added, "If the democrats didn't have Bush to blame for everything, they'd have had to invent him."
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

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  5. #185  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Oops....I spoke too soon. Was watching CNBC and one of the guests (didn't catch his name, grrrrr) with Larry Kudlow actually blamed the Bush Administration twice for the oil disaster. The other guest asked "Exactly when does Obama become President? In 2011? In 2012?" To which Larry Kudlow added, "If the democrats didn't have Bush to blame for everything, they'd have had to invent him."
    I do not blame Bush or Obama for the oil spill. I blame Bush/Cheney for demolishing any hint of true federal regulations on oil companies and fostering an attitude where the companies filled out their own approval slips. I believe that is the true cause of the spill. I blame Obama's appointee, Salazar, for not doing something about it promptly when the administration changed....but I am not surprised by the fact he didn't, since he had his own ties to the industry and was felt to be a horrible choice by environmentalists when he was picked for the position. For that reason Obama shares in the blame for not being aggressive enough and understanding that private industry is not the least bit concerned with the environment. Frankly, he should have known that. Has the administration responded appropriately? I am not sure, but they have done this much, and if Toby can find evidence that any of these facts posted on the Whitehouse.gov website are wrong, I would appreciate knowing about it.

    By the Numbers to Date:

    • The administration has authorized 17,500 National Guard troops from Gulf Coast states to participate in the response to the BP oil spill.
    • More than 22,000 personnel are currently responding to protect the shoreline and wildlife and cleanup vital coastlines.
    • More than 3,100 vessels are responding on site, including skimmers, tugs, barges, and recovery vessels to assist in containment and cleanup efforts—in addition to dozens of aircraft, remotely operated vehicles, and multiple mobile offshore drilling units.
    • Approximately 2.19 million feet of containment boom and 2.46 million feet of sorbent boom have been deployed to contain the spill—and approximately 702,000 feet of containment boom and 2.5 million feet of sorbent boom are available.
    • Approximately 15.5 million gallons of an oil-water mix have been recovered.
    • Approximately 1.09 million gallons of total dispersant have been deployed—779,000 on the surface and 317,000 subsea. More than 469,000 gallons are available.
    • More than 125 controlled burns have been conducted, efficiently removing a total of more than 3.2 million gallons of oil from the open water in an effort to protect shoreline and wildlife.
    • 17 staging areas are in place and ready to protect sensitive shorelines.
  6. #186  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    I thought I was going to be asked to pay more for health care, for tax and trade, and who knows what else? So yes, I do mind paying a little more in taxes. However, I might consider donating some money to help save/clean up some birds, turtles, and other animals.
    ah yes, the theory of trickle down. Splendid idea....

    Reagan’s fans give him credit for restoring the nation’s prosperity. But whatever economic growth occurred during the Reagan years only benefited those already well off. The income gap between the rich and everyone else in America widened. Wages for the average worker declined and the nation’s homeownership rate fell. During Reagan’s two terms in the White House, which were boon times for the rich, the poverty rate in cities grew.
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  7. #187  
    Quote Originally Posted by konsole View Post
    I guess it's just the American way to point the finger at somebody else. It's sickening, it would be nice to have leaders that take accountability and quit passing the buck.
    I'm sorry, I guess you missed the press conference from Grand Isle where Obama said ""I am the president and the buck stops with me." Is there something that is unclear about that?
  8. #188  
  9. mulcher's Avatar
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    #189  
    What would happen is we wouldn't force these people to drill off of other countries shores and give them the revenue, and we wouldn't have to go 50 miles out and 5,000 feet down to just the ocean floor. If this was shallow (without the left wing environmentalists whining), this would have been fixed in a matter of days, so yes, if the 'drill baby drill' crowd was in power, and could get past the environmentalists, we would have ANWR oil, and shallow water oil.

    ANd you can talk all you want about wind and solar powered cars, but until regular folks can use them to replace their current cars at reasonably close unsubsidized costs, they are a pipe dream as much as the Star Trek teleporter.
    Mark F Chinsky
  10. #190  
    Quote Originally Posted by mulcher View Post
    ANd you can talk all you want about wind and solar powered cars, but until regular folks can use them to replace their current cars at reasonably close unsubsidized costs, they are a pipe dream as much as the Star Trek teleporter.
    Yes....thank you....finally someone brings up the Star Trek teleporter. Is anyone working on this? How cool would that be?
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

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  11. #191  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Has the administration responded appropriately? I am not sure, but they have done this much, and if Toby can find evidence that any of these facts posted on the Whitehouse.gov website are wrong, I would appreciate knowing about it.

    By the Numbers to Date:
    The administration has authorized 17,500 National Guard troops from Gulf Coast states to participate in the response to the BP oil spill.
    More than 22,000 personnel are currently responding to protect the shoreline and wildlife and cleanup vital coastlines.
    More than 3,100 vessels are responding on site, including skimmers, tugs, barges, and recovery vessels to assist in containment and cleanup efforts—in addition to dozens of aircraft, remotely operated vehicles, and multiple mobile offshore drilling units.
    Approximately 2.19 million feet of containment boom and 2.46 million feet of sorbent boom have been deployed to contain the spill—and approximately 702,000 feet of containment boom and 2.5 million feet of sorbent boom are available.
    Approximately 15.5 million gallons of an oil-water mix have been recovered.
    Approximately 1.09 million gallons of total dispersant have been deployed—779,000 on the surface and 317,000 subsea. More than 469,000 gallons are available.
    More than 125 controlled burns have been conducted, efficiently removing a total of more than 3.2 million gallons of oil from the open water in an effort to protect shoreline and wildlife.
    17 staging areas are in place and ready to protect sensitive shorelines.
    The real question is how much of the 'credit' for these activities can fairly go to the administration even assuming they are all true. As an example, shrimp boats deploying booms or skimming being paid by BP doesn't sound like something that the Obama administration should be claiming they did.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  12. #192  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    ah yes, the theory of trickle down. Splendid idea....
    Yes....I'm well aware that you liberals believe it is better to force people to be givers (you know, the Joe Biden theory of it's Patriotic to pay taxes) and that the government knows how best to spend our money. I happen to believe that is it better to allow citizens to donate to those causes they feel strongly about. It's just like Warren Buffet, who believes everyone else should pay huge estate taxes, and yet he sets his money up in charitable trusts to avoid taxes (by the way, I don't blame him, but seems hypocritical). When asked that it seemed like he was avoiding taxes when advocating others pay taxes, he jumped around the question. When he was pressed on this issue, he finally said what everyone knows, and that is that he felt he was better at handling the money than the government. I have a lot of respect for Warren and his investment abilities, but he is typical of many liberals.....use someone else's money to solve a problem, not mine.
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  13. #193  
    Quote Originally Posted by mulcher View Post
    What would happen is we wouldn't force these people to drill off of other countries shores and give them the revenue, and we wouldn't have to go 50 miles out and 5,000 feet down to just the ocean floor. If this was shallow (without the left wing environmentalists whining), this would have been fixed in a matter of days, so yes, if the 'drill baby drill' crowd was in power, and could get past the environmentalists, we would have ANWR oil, and shallow water oil.

    ANd you can talk all you want about wind and solar powered cars, but until regular folks can use them to replace their current cars at reasonably close unsubsidized costs, they are a pipe dream as much as the Star Trek teleporter.
    Certainly could be wrong, but I'm guessing you're not from a state that relies heavily on a tourist industry with excellent beaches. The gulf spill in 1979 wasn't deep (60 feet) yet ran on for 9 months...and there have been no improvements in well control since then. The same booms, and failed attempts were tried then...putting a cap on top of it, etc. Alabama and Missisippi have miniscule shoreline compared to Florida. If they want to allow shallow water drilling and risk their tourist and recreational fishing business, so be it. Tourism makes up a much smaller portion of their income. Hopefully Florida has learned from this and will never allow drilling at all, deep or shallow.
  14. #194  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Yes....I'm well aware that you liberals believe it is better to force people to be givers (you know, the Joe Biden theory of it's Patriotic to pay taxes) and that the government knows how best to spend our money. I happen to believe that is it better to allow citizens to donate to those causes they feel strongly about. It's just like Warren Buffet, who believes everyone else should pay huge estate taxes, and yet he sets his money up in charitable trusts to avoid taxes (by the way, I don't blame him, but seems hypocritical). When asked that it seemed like he was avoiding taxes when advocating others pay taxes, he jumped around the question. When he was pressed on this issue, he finally said what everyone knows, and that is that he felt he was better at handling the money than the government. I have a lot of respect for Warren and his investment abilities, but he is typical of many liberals.....use someone else's money to solve a problem, not mine.
    Allow me to be specific so you can't dodge the question: do you think the government should invest in the heavy and expensive equipment necessary to clean up after negligent companies like BP? If so, who should pay for the equipment? If you aren't going to give them the needed equipment, then please don't hold them responsible for what happens.
  15. #195  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Allow me to be specific so you can't dodge the question: do you think the government should invest in the heavy and expensive equipment necessary to clean up after negligent companies like BP? If so, who should pay for the equipment? If you aren't going to give them the needed equipment, then please don't hold them responsible for what happens.
    I don't believe tax payers should be responsible for this spill....BP should. We should not be bailing them out for their mistake. If this mistake sinks the company, then so be it. We (taxpayers) simply can't be involved in another bailout....we (taxpayers) simply can't afford it right now. Obama has us in enough trouble as it is. In the meantime, BP has plenty of cash on hand, and they are a functioning company making good money (for now). They pay a very nice dividend, but if due to their blunder they have to suspend the dividend, and divert that money to fix their mistake, then so be it. But as I said, I would be happy to donate some money to legitimate private organizations to help just as I donated money to help Katrina victims.
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  16. #196  
    I still don't see why they haven't offered up the lease to any other oil company that comes up with a solution to stop the leak. Let's see how fast BP gets something done then.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  17. #197  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Yeah, I saw that a couple days back. Did BP respond?
    They sent Bob Dudley (managing director) out with Jindal to tour the areas first hand.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  18. #198  
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  19. #199  
    Drew Brees could kill somebody at this point, and Louisiana would forgive him.
    Saints raffling off Super Bowl ring to raise money for oil leak struggle | wwltv.com | WWL Sports
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  20. #200  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    I don't believe tax payers should be responsible for this spill....BP should. We should not be bailing them out for their mistake. If this mistake sinks the company, then so be it. We (taxpayers) simply can't be involved in another bailout....we (taxpayers) simply can't afford it right now. Obama has us in enough trouble as it is. In the meantime, BP has plenty of cash on hand, and they are a functioning company making good money (for now). They pay a very nice dividend, but if due to their blunder they have to suspend the dividend, and divert that money to fix their mistake, then so be it. But as I said, I would be happy to donate some money to legitimate private organizations to help just as I donated money to help Katrina victims.
    Amazing. You just won't answer the question. I don't know if you're not reading it, or what the deal is. Please just try and concentrate and stop blabbering about dividends. What I'm trying to get you to comprehend is that the government is not equipped to stop the oil leak. They never have been. Given the fact that corporations just don't give a damn about the environment, do you feel that the government should be equipped to deal with disasters that are caused by corporations? Do you not see that the criticism, at least part of it, of Obama is because he has not been able to stop the leak? Micael will say otherwise, but that is clearly the case, even if it's unsaid. In addition, the government doesn't stockpile things like oil booms and skimmer boats. Should they? If you expect the government to be able to take over and stop the leaks and clean up when big oil is negligent, then where should the money come from to pay for the equipment? Let me give you a hint: the answer is the oil companies...but they haven't, and Obama does NOT have the equipment to stop the leak, or to effectively deal with clean-up. He's mobilized the National Guard, he has every Coast Guard boat available there. He cannot be criticized for not using something he doesn't have. Not that that will stop illogical complaints like those from Micael, but it should.

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