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  1.    #1  
    Seriously, what's the best plan here?

    1. all out war

    2. withdrawal of us troops(its their problem)

    3.Devastating preemptive leadership strike (maybe the nuke?)

    4.Leave them be and it'll go away till the next time?

    5.Give in, they won already...

    6. Ive got a better Idea______(fill in the blank)

    I'm not looking for obama won't or isnt doing something... as much as I don't want to hear its bush's fault. What can be done? What has to be done?
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


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  2. #2  
    Hey, u've been getting pretty political the last couple of days, lol.
    What's goin' on with you?

    - And to answer your question, other countries keep thumbing their collective noses at us because they all know we're never going to nuke anybody.
    Last edited by dbdoinit; 05/27/2010 at 06:49 PM.
  3. bennish's Avatar
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    #3  
    hang on... are there u.s. troops in north korea? Am I getting confused?

    also, dbd - we're actually all kinda disturbed and wary of you because you HAVE nuked somebody. You're the only country in the world that ever has nuked somebody. And far from it making the u.s. seem like the cool kid, it actually makes you seem like the creepy kid who could snap at any moment... and we don't really wanna sit next to you at lunch.

    i'm talking about the u.s. a government/military/nation here. The actual PEOPLE in the u.s. are lovely.
  4.    #4  
    another interest I guess... I like to keep current. And it something to do while waiting for the next webos device I feel as though a nuke may be warrented... The lives of civilians in seoul alone lost to North Korean artillery may dwarf the total number lost in the whole korean war.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by bennish View Post
    hang on... are there u.s. troops in north korea? Am I getting confused?

    also, dbd - we're actually all kinda disturbed and wary of you because you HAVE nuked somebody. You're the only country in the world that ever has nuked somebody. And far from it making the u.s. seem like the cool kid, it actually makes you seem like the creepy kid who could snap at any moment... .
    That was many, many years ago, with all kinds of different people in control.

    We're talking about now.
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by bennish View Post
    hang on... are there u.s. troops in north korea? Am I getting confused?

    also, dbd - we're actually all kinda disturbed and wary of you because you HAVE nuked somebody. You're the only country in the world that ever has nuked somebody. And far from it making the u.s. seem like the cool kid, it actually makes you seem like the creepy kid who could snap at any moment... and we don't really wanna sit next to you at lunch.

    i'm talking about the u.s. a government/military/nation here. The actual PEOPLE in the u.s. are lovely.
    there are 28K troops in south korea, all in range of north korean weapons.

    These weapons save hundreds of thousands of american lives. I don't expect non-americans to understand. Heck alot of americans would disagree.
    I don't. It's an option to save lives...
    Last edited by mrloserpunk; 05/27/2010 at 07:19 PM.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by bennish View Post
    hang on... are there u.s. troops in north korea? Am I getting confused?

    also, dbd - we're actually all kinda disturbed and wary of you because you HAVE nuked somebody. You're the only country in the world that ever has nuked somebody. And far from it making the u.s. seem like the cool kid, it actually makes you seem like the creepy kid who could snap at any moment... and we don't really wanna sit next to you at lunch.

    i'm talking about the u.s. a government/military/nation here. The actual PEOPLE in the u.s. are lovely.
    Correct, we have nuked somebody. And it brought a fairly abrupt end to an extremely bloody chapter in that war. What do you think about the results? Did the ends justify the means?
  8. #8  
    North Korea, Paul has some points, ya NK yells screams jumps up an down, like a spoiled child when it does not get what it wants. It plays at brinkmanship. Do not kid yourself, what 1.2 million under arms, perhaps not the most modern army, but lets face it, 1.2 million rifle toting zelots come scream down south.. South Korea may have a modern army, but again lets face it,, a lot of people will die.
    yup you can do as Paul suggests, pull back behind your barricades, divorce yourself from the rest of the world. Perhaps its time for say Russia to step up and do the police man of the world thing. I would suggest however, by stepping back, you loose all right to ***** moan and complain when things do not go the way you want. I would also suggest, that the big corps, will quickly relocate to other countries. They need want demand an open system.
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  9. Micael's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    Seriously, what's the best plan here?

    1. all out war

    2. withdrawal of us troops(its their problem)

    3.Devastating preemptive leadership strike (maybe the nuke?)

    4.Leave them be and it'll go away till the next time?

    5.Give in, they won already...

    6. Ive got a better Idea______(fill in the blank)

    I'm not looking for obama won't or isnt doing something... as much as I don't want to hear its bush's fault. What can be done? What has to be done?
    IMHO, it's always been the same answer, as DPRK has always been shielded by China. We're left with talking and dancing as best we can. Preemptive attacks or even aggressive handling is pretty much out of the question.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by RPFTW View Post
    tuck tail and run? wow, this guy would have let Russia take all of Berlin to avoid the headache!

    Not engaging the enemy in their homes but instead on our land wasn't a bad plan when it took 6 weeks to sail the Atlantic to attack our homeland. But when the missile can be launched and hit in only 20 min's..... engaging only on our soil is a disastrous policy.

    Make no mistakes, Paul is a isolationist. The global community will continue to depend on one another increasingly....just as it has our entire history.
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    IMHO, it's always been the same answer, as DPRK has always been shielded by China. We're left with talking and dancing as best we can. Preemptive attacks or even aggressive handling is pretty much out of the question.
    I agree, we are stuck in the mud without china. But, maybe that will change soon... If the Norths cannons go live, I think I would be o.k with a small yield on Pyongyang.
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  12. Micael's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    I agree, we are stuck in the mud without china. But, maybe that will change soon... If the Norths cannons go live, I think I would be o.k with a small yield on Pyongyang.
    I dunno. I'd not be so quick to preempt. In the WWII situation, it really was a choice of possibly millions of deaths doing it the conventional way, versus a three hundred thousand the nuke way. That was a tough call, but I can see the logic. It would have to be that sort of choice again for me to consider backing a nuke attack today.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  13. #13  
    I doubt the US is trying to get into another war, I believe they are trying really hard to prevent it. We have fragile relationship with China (allies of North Korea) and I don't think we need to fight another war (we are already fighting 2 simultaneously)

    I highly doubt that the US would drop a Nuke on North Korea, really would not be called for even if all out war broke out in the Korea's
    Are bad people born that way? Or did something go terribly wrong?
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I dunno. I'd not be so quick to preempt. In the WWII situation, it really was a choice of possibly millions of deaths doing it the conventional way, versus a three hundred thousand the nuke way. That was a tough call, but I can see the logic. It would have to be that sort of choice again for me to consider backing a nuke attack today.
    the chance of a decapitating effect of a strike against the north is grater than what was thought the strikes in japan would have produced. I think because of the poor shape of the people in North Korea, a quick catastrophic strike to its leadership, would produce an opportunity to introduce a sizable UN humanitarian and defensive force.

    I have no doubts the north Korean government and resistance will fall if the effective leadership is destroyed. This is a risk of dictatorships, who often eradicate perceived foes within their own ranks, and stock those post's with obedient allies.... many of which may not really be the best person for the job, concentrating command and control into the hands of a small group of "diehards"

    While the question of deaths may be a few hundred thousands in conventional warfare, there is no way of saying when during an armed conflict with North Korea they will use their nuclear arms. We can all agree that if another war breaks out, it must end with the end of Kim Jong ill regime right? That would mean, if war is to break out, he will likely use any means necessary to fend off the attempts to remove him.

    Potentially affected Populations....

    Tokyo- 12,790,000 Seoul- 10,464,051 , Okinawa-1,384,762

    and

    80,000 Us Service Members
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrdcamjc View Post
    I doubt the US is trying to get into another war, I believe they are trying really hard to prevent it. We have fragile relationship with China (allies of North Korea) and I don't think we need to fight another war (we are already fighting 2 simultaneously)

    I highly doubt that the US would drop a Nuke on North Korea, really would not be called for even if all out war broke out in the Korea's
    Maybe a pincer move with china? I doubt that will happen....

    I would rather the whole thing blow over and Kim to come to his senses and open North Korea for the sake of his people.... I doubt that will happen. If a foreign power enters the Norths boarders, they will strike using nuclear power...would that not be a qualifying action to unleash ours?
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  16. Micael's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    the chance of a decapitating effect of a strike against the north is grater than what was thought the strikes in japan would have produced. I think because of the poor shape of the people in North Korea, a quick catastrophic strike to its leadership, would produce an opportunity to introduce a sizable UN humanitarian and defensive force.

    I have no doubts the north Korean government and resistance will fall if the effective leadership is destroyed. This is a risk of dictatorships, who often eradicate perceived foes within their own ranks, and stock those post's with obedient allies.... many of which may not really be the best person for the job, concentrating command and control into the hands of a small group of "diehards"

    While the question of deaths may be a few hundred thousands in conventional warfare, there is no way of saying when during an armed conflict with North Korea they will use their nuclear arms. We can all agree that if another war breaks out, it must end with the end of Kim Jong ill regime right? That would mean, if war is to break out, he will likely use any means necessary to fend off the attempts to remove him.

    Potentially affected Populations....

    Tokyo- 12,790,000 Seoul- 10,464,051 , Okinawa-1,384,762

    and

    80,000 Us Service Members
    I seriously doubt that China would sit around and watch a "UN Humanitarian and Defensive Force" waltz in and set up shop right on thier borders.

    And remember that nobody else had the technology we had when we nuked Japan. Study the possible cascading effect such an attack could trigger today.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  17. bennish's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by joshaccount View Post
    Correct, we have nuked somebody. And it brought a fairly abrupt end to an extremely bloody chapter in that war. What do you think about the results? Did the ends justify the means?
    No it didn't. But that's my opinion, and opinion differs.

    If killing a pregnant mother-to-be could save lives, would you do it? It's kinda like that. Where does one draw the line?

    As for comments about american lives... I understand that one naturally assumes greater importance over one's countrypeople. But again, how far do we take this? Do you place american lives above canadian? Or if you're from California, will you act to save a fellow Californian at the expense of someone from Colorado?

    How would you feel if some Australians and Americans were in a bad situation in battle, and our government had the means to extract them, and placed higher priority on the Australian troops? Of course, that is exactly what would happen, it's only natural. But this sort of thing often makes non-americans think. Especially when america is the most technologically-advanced military in the world.

    And they also make the most technologically advanced smartphone - amirite??
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  18. bennish's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    That was many, many years ago, with all kinds of different people in control.

    We're talking about now.
    Hehe. Yeah. It's different.

    I can see someone in 1938 saying 'the great war was decades ago, with different people. We're talking about now.

    (by the way, sorry for posting some things that are slightly off-topic. the OP was about korea and my comments are a little sidetracked.)
    [twitter]_____[blog]______[im]__
    For now: Nexus One | iPad 2
    When avail. in Aus: Pre3 16GB | Touchpad 16GB

    This is a forum for WebOS enthusiasts. It is not a place for negative rants about Palm, HP or WebOS.
    Criticism is important but so is a positive environment. Remember, we're here because we love WebOS.
  19. #19  
    To Nuke a city, to get one man?! seems a little over kill to me. If Dear little leader, was to attack the south, I think he would get far more then he bargained for. I am not sure China would sit still with it. They have intervened in the past, with other of their sat nations. China has to know, that as much as Kim is playing the brinkmanship game with the west, he is also playing it with China. They understand the politics of Korea much better then we do.
    I also believe, that China would strike back if the west was to drop a nuke on NK. It would escalate from there. Should we do nothing, perhaps, that is exactly what we should do. Nothing. Send no aid, send no money. Quietly meet with the powers in the area, and do it. No announcements, NK wants to be isolated, then isolate them. Completely. Do not talk to them, in any way shape or form. Interdict their shipping, check every load. Freeze all assets. Refuse to get into a war of words with them. They would ignore it anyway, while ratcheting up the rhetoric. One of two things would happen, one they collapse, two they attack, if they attack, do not cross the 39th. Stop them cold. Give China no reason to put 2 million plus troops in the field against the west. Not to mention the rest of their sizable and fairly well armed army, airforce and navy.
    Your argument for not sending aid, or doing business with them is simple, we are a free market system, we decide who we do and dont do business with. Kim demands in some speeches that we give him money, food, aid and so on... as if he is a powerhouse of the east. Not even China would support him if he attacked over that.
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  20. dan02gt's Avatar
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    #20  
    bennish,

    I agree that the use of nuclear weapons on a city is horrible and I could only image what it felt like be the guys in the Enola Gay when they saw what they had done. You do know they had no clue what they were going to do to the last minute right? The fact is that it was thought to be the only way to make the Japanese surrender and end the bloodiest war ever. Image what would have happened if we had to take main land Japan, how many Americans and Japanese would have died.

    Also the technology to build these weapons exists and we can't turn a blind eye to that if we didn't have nukes would that stop the "bad" guys from having them I doubt it. Can you imagine what would have happened if the ****s got them first, or if we didn't use our nuclear deterrent to hold the USSR at bay and stop the spread of communism through out Europe.

    The fact is most of the world hasn't needed them for any reason because we have been there with our powerful Carrier Groups ready to sacrifice American lives to protect them and preserve freedom.

    People in other countries may think we are the weird creepy kid, but the bottom line is a lot people in a lot of other countries lives are a better because of us. We may not always do the best thing but we try.
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