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  1. #201  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    sounds good to me.....you can never instill good morals enough

    unless you are against "dont kill", "Dont steal", etc.
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  2. #202  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Religion is not the root cause, in my opinion, but something that's oftentimes been used as a tool by those who desire power. If we look at the single largest cause of death and cultural destruction in the twentieth Century, I think we'll see power and envy at the root.
    I agree in principle, however, you can remove organized religion from a culture or an individual (they can choose to set it aside) but you cannot remove envy (a basic human emotion). Envy is not a tool, it's a root part of our human condition. Organized religion is man-made and often used as a tool to control the masses into giving money, thinking alike, subjugating others, etc. Is religion the root cause, certainly not, but it is often the only tool necessary to motivate ordinary people into doing what they normally would not... Power and envy, as you put it, in this scenario probably begins and ends with the religious leadership.
  3. #203  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Religion is not the root cause, in my opinion, but something that's oftentimes been used as a tool by those who desire power. If we look at the single largest cause of death and cultural destruction in the twentieth Century, I think we'll see power and envy at the root.
    the root cause is always power. anyone will use/do anything to gain more power

    look at the pope and that crock they call the catholic church
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  4. #204  
    Quote Originally Posted by cjgem View Post
    Man 2 things in one thread, What all flavors of Yuengling do you get? Lager is pretty standard, Porter and Lord Chesterfield are good too.
    I thought only the lager was widely distributed. I assumed since davidra's in the south, that was what he was referring to (just like I was referring to the regular Dixie and not the newer stuff).
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    #205  
    Quote Originally Posted by joshaccount View Post
    I agree in principle, however, you can remove organized religion from a culture or an individual (they can choose to set it aside) but you cannot remove envy (a basic human emotion). Envy is not a tool, it's a root part of our human condition. Organized religion is man-made and often used as a tool to control the masses into giving money, thinking alike, subjugating others, etc.
    Yes, this was my point. The problem is the basic human condition. If you remove religion, something else will take its place as a tool for gaining/retaining power. Just as it has in mainland China, for example. It may sound like semantics but, unfortunately, a large number of people don't get that difference. That's why they keep trying to form irreligious/areligious utopias and keep failing.

    Is religion the root cause, certainly not, but it is often the only tool necessary to motivate ordinary people into doing what they normally would not... Power and envy, as you put it, in this scenario probably begins and ends with the religious leadership.
    I would agree with you there. The problem with religious leadership, as with all leadership, is that it's formed by human beings. Unfortunately, there is scant evidence of spontaneous human organization without leadership either as it's motivation or it's result.
  6. #206  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Yes, this was my point. The problem is the basic human condition. If you remove religion, something else will take its place as a tool for gaining/retaining power. Just as it has in mainland China, for example. It may sound like semantics but, unfortunately, a large number of people don't get that difference. That's why they keep trying to form irreligious/areligious utopias and keep failing.


    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    The problem with religious leadership, as with all leadership, is that it's formed by human beings.
  7. #207  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I thought only the lager was widely distributed. I assumed since davidra's in the south, that was what he was referring to (just like I was referring to the regular Dixie and not the newer stuff).

    Ya, I figured he meant lager as well, just had to ask if he has had the others. Porter is well a porter and chesterfield is an ale. All good stuff.
    Last edited by cjgem; 06/01/2010 at 09:50 PM.
  8. #208  
    Quote Originally Posted by 65fastback View Post
    sounds good to me.....you can never instill good morals enough

    unless you are against "dont kill", "Dont steal", etc.
    I see. Very interesting. Do you remember a few posts back when you said:

    you are mistaking teaching about a religious person for teaching religion. which is flat out incorrect.
    I'm not sure I've seen someone contradict themselves in just a few short posts. Please don't try and justify the Texass wingnuts by saying they're not teaching religion, but teaching about it, and then say that teaching religion "sounds good to me". Your true feelings are transparent, as are the feelings of the state board....they are right-wing Christian zealots with an agenda of forcing teaching about Christianity to the exclusion of any other religions to produce yet another generation of intellectually limited Texans. Not that there's anything wrong with that, as long as they actually follow through with their governor's plan to secede. I'm all for that, as soon as possible.
  9. #209  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I see. Very interesting. Do you remember a few posts back when you said:

    I'm not sure I've seen someone contradict themselves in just a few short posts. Please don't try and justify the Texass wingnuts by saying they're not teaching religion, but teaching about it, and then say that teaching religion "sounds good to me". Your true feelings are transparent, as are the feelings of the state board....they are right-wing Christian zealots with an agenda of forcing teaching about Christianity to the exclusion of any other religions to produce yet another generation of intellectually limited Texans. Not that there's anything wrong with that, as long as they actually follow through with their governor's plan to secede. I'm all for that, as soon as possible.
    guess I need to sort out my religious views and my political views for you....think I'll make a system

    how about

    davidra-p:

    and

    davidra-r:

    this way, you'll be able to see your name and hopefully clue in on "political" vs. "religious"
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  10. #210  
    Quote Originally Posted by cjgem View Post
    Ya, I figured he meant lager as well, just had to ask if he has had the others. Porter is well a porter and chesterfield is an ale. All good stuff.
    Can't get any of it in Louisiana, but I have a poker buddy from PA that always makes a point of bringing some lager back with him when he goes home for a visit. I'll have to get him to bring me some of the other stuff back next time.
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  11. #211  
    Quote Originally Posted by 65fastback View Post
    guess I need to sort out my religious views and my political views for you....think I'll make a system

    how about

    davidra-p:

    and

    davidra-r:

    this way, you'll be able to see your name and hopefully clue in on "political" vs. "religious"

    Yeah, I guess you should, since that didn't help. Simply, do you favor teaching religion in schools? Or do you favor teaching about "religions" in schools? And if the former, would you teach your little Texass cowboys and cowgirls about Islam and Judaism and how practicing those religions can be very helpful in one's life? And if the latter, will you teach about Maimonides and Ibn Taymiyah, or just Calvin?
  12. #212  
    The concept of teaching the intelligent design of God, is absolutely nuts. Too many fossils put paid to that whole concept... ohhh wait,, thats right, days arent days anymore, and suddenly there are sea monsters mentioned,,, someplace..okkkkkkkk gotta love this, orwell should be rolling in his grave with this.. whats next, god created helicopters??
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    #213  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    The concept of teaching the intelligent design of God, is absolutely nuts. Too many fossils put paid to that whole concept... ohhh wait,, thats right, days arent days anymore, and suddenly there are sea monsters mentioned,,, someplace..okkkkkkkk gotta love this, orwell should be rolling in his grave with this.. whats next, god created helicopters??
    Why are you against teaching about different concepts (other than the fact that you don't agree with them personally)? You have all the answers? Maybe we should all just come to you to tell us what concepts to teach?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  14. #214  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Yeah, I guess you should, since that didn't help. Simply, do you favor teaching religion in schools? Or do you favor teaching about "religions" in schools? And if the former, would you teach your little Texass cowboys and cowgirls about Islam and Judaism and how practicing those religions can be very helpful in one's life? And if the latter, will you teach about Maimonides and Ibn Taymiyah, or just Calvin?
    its a parents job to teach religion, not the schools. now if religion happens to be in history then they need to teach about it historically.

    i dont support the teaching of religions that are harmful (such as islam where it allows a husband to physically abuse his wife by hitting her).

    You arent going to avoid Christianity, its DEEPLY rooted in our foundation, founding fathers lives and beliefs, and EVERY President that has yet to serve has been a professed Christian.

    Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.

    Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed., (New York: Burt Franklin, 1970), Vol. IV, p. 393.

    John Jay was the first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.....so its there, forever, no matter what you think about it.
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  15. #215  
    Quote Originally Posted by 65fastback View Post
    its a parents job to teach religion, not the schools. now if religion happens to be in history then they need to teach about it historically.

    i dont support the teaching of religions that are harmful (such as islam where it allows a husband to physically abuse his wife by hitting her).

    You arent going to avoid Christianity, its DEEPLY rooted in our foundation, founding fathers lives and beliefs, and EVERY President that has yet to serve has been a professed Christian.

    Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.

    Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed., (New York: Burt Franklin, 1970), Vol. IV, p. 393.

    John Jay was the first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.....so its there, forever, no matter what you think about it.
    I have no intention of avoiding Christianity. I agree with you....religion should be taught in the homes. So keep the Texass school board out of the textbooks when it comes to religion, because they don't see things the same way you do....and keep religion and religious theories out of schools. Teaching about religion, in the context of history (like the Crusades, for example) make a lot of sense...as long as it is balanced.
  16. #216  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Why are you against teaching about different concepts (other than the fact that you don't agree with them personally)? You have all the answers? Maybe we should all just come to you to tell us what concepts to teach?
    It seems very obvious that we should all be learning from X and davidra....those guys seem to know everything. I never thought in a million years I'd run across 2 guys in the same forum that just seemed to know about everything....really is...well....really is a miracle, isn't it?
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  17. #217  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I have no intention of avoiding Christianity. I agree with you....religion should be taught in the homes. So keep the Texass school board out of the textbooks when it comes to religion, because they don't see things the same way you do....and keep religion and religious theories out of schools. Teaching about religion, in the context of history (like the Crusades, for example) make a lot of sense...as long as it is balanced.
    i think they get enough big bang theory and evolution theory in science class that a lil Christianity in history class wont kill them
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  18. #218  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Why are you against teaching about different concepts (other than the fact that you don't agree with them personally)? You have all the answers? Maybe we should all just come to you to tell us what concepts to teach?
    testy testy, I look at things by your standards differently, I do NOT blindly follow some book. Call me the show me type. Showing me a book written by upteen different people, about what I can only view as a fantasy, well,,,, I see too many people dieing over a bloody series of books. No proof its actual history, just rantings, at least in my mind.
    I view the whole Texas thing to be a slippery slope, I think in a very few years your religion in Texas is all that will be taught. hmmmm
    religion isn't logical nor are a lot of its adherents.
    Last edited by xForsaken; 06/03/2010 at 01:51 AM.
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  19. #219  
    Quote Originally Posted by 65fastback View Post
    i think they get enough big bang theory and evolution theory in science class that a lil Christianity in history class wont kill them
    why if i disagree with the whole concept of religion should i be forced to learn more about it? I thought we had a freedom to choose. By the sounds of it, no choice will be given. hmmmmmmm or say I am a hindu devotee why should i be forced to learn/converted to Christianity. Why should my views on religion be any less they yours. wow gotta love these double edged libertarian ideals.
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    #220  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    testy testy, I look at things by your standards differently, I do NOT blindly follow some book. Call me the show me type. Showing me a book written by upteen different people, about what I can only view as a fantasy, well,,,, I see too many people dieing over a bloody series of books. No proof its actual history, just rantings, at least in my mind.
    I view the whole Texas thing to be a slippery slope, I think in a very few years your religion in Texas is all that will be taught. hmmmm
    religion isn't logical nor are a lot of its adherents.
    Again, you're confusing two distinctly different concepts: Teaching religion, and all of it's theological and philisophical elements - versus - teaching about religion and it's impact on history and civilization.

    Why would you shut out history? Who's the closed minded one here?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

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