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  1. #181  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Religion as a part of world history isn't relevant? I'd say that it had more than a small impact.

    You honestly are confused about the difference between that and "teaching religion"?

    Really? I wonder how much curricular time is given in Texas books to the history of Islam?
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    #182  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Really? I wonder how much curricular time is given in Texas books to the history of Islam?
    Perhaps you'd like to take the comparison down to the number of characters for each topic? I suspect that islamic names are generally longer, so we may have to do some weighting.....
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  3. #183  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Religion as a part of world history isn't relevant? I'd say that it had more than a small impact.

    You honestly are confused about the difference between that and "teaching religion"?
    Agree 100%. Teaching religion and teaching religions role and impact on world history are two separate endeavors. What single factor has caused more war, shaped more history, and united (or divided) more culture in the last 10,000 years?
  4. #184  
    Quote Originally Posted by joshaccount View Post
    Agree 100%. Teaching religion and teaching religions role and impact on world history are two separate endeavors. What single factor has caused more war, shaped more history, and united (or divided) more culture in the last 10,000 years?
    I totally agree. I'm just not sure that what Texans seem to want is what you are talking about, given quotes like this:

    I also love that they replaced Jefferson in World History with Calvin, etc.....finally we can get some more religion back into history classes

    oh woops, did I forget to mention Im a native Texan?
    Do you think that Mohammed would get equal time in the Texas classroom with Jesus? Do you really think they are going to allow teaching talking about the significant negative effects that religion has has on society? Please...by all means....tell me I'm wrong.
  5. #185  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Do you think that Mohammed would get equal time in the Texas classroom with Jesus? Do you really think they are going to allow teaching talking about the significant negative effects that religion has has on society? Please...by all means....tell me I'm wrong.
    Nope. I disagree with 70% of what you say, but not this time. We are largely a christian society, so they would naturally focus heavily on western religion and Mohammed would be a footnote. I assume the reverse would be taught in public schools in the middle east. And I do think it's a good idea to incorporate religion into history (and that's a mouthful coming from an agnostic), since so much of history is linked to religion.
  6. #186  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Religion as a part of world history isn't relevant? I'd say that it had more than a small impact.

    You honestly are confused about the difference between that and "teaching religion"?
    nope not confused at all, the connotation of the line was religion, not what impact religion has had on world history.. ie the billions it has killed over its time.. ya you bet,, teach what religion has done to the world, dont teach that god made the world in 7 days bs. there is a huge difference in that. Or are you confused about what sort of things religion has done to the world, ie crusades, inquisition, etc etc.. yup just gotta love that we are all about love and forgiveness bs, when they are putting entire cities to the sword... but hey, its not religions fault, its mans, he made a choice.. lolol what a crock..
    i could care less if it is islam, or christian religions, they are both bad, both are used by people to subjugate other people as well as their own people.. all ultimately in the name of profit.. lolol
    But I will give you this, if it wasnt religion they were invading for, it would be something else.. they would make something up, heck they usually do
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  7. #187  
    what was this thread about... I forgot?
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    #188  
    daThomas is tired of guacamole.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  9. #189  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    daThomas is tired of guacamole.
    Guacamole is awesome.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  10. #190  
    Quote Originally Posted by joshaccount View Post
    Nope. I disagree with 70% of what you say, but not this time. We are largely a christian society, so they would naturally focus heavily on western religion and Mohammed would be a footnote. I assume the reverse would be taught in public schools in the middle east. And I do think it's a good idea to incorporate religion into history (and that's a mouthful coming from an agnostic), since so much of history is linked to religion.

    If religions aren't taught equally, with equal respect, it's then a fine line between "teaching" and "proselytizing" in my opinion. And if there's anyplace I can see proselytizing, it's Texass. Poor kids might as well be at Jesus Camp.

    Definitively something we can agree upon. Guacamole with extra peppers and an ice cold Yuengling. Although a Heine will do just fine as well.
  11. #191  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Definitively something we can agree upon. Guacamole with extra peppers and an ice cold Yuengling. Although a Heine will do just fine as well.
    Yeungling is an OK NAIL, but I'd take Dixie over it. That being said, guacamole and yellow queso go so nice with a top shelf margarita (hold the salt).
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  12. #192  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Religion as a part of world history isn't relevant? I'd say that it had more than a small impact.

    You honestly are confused about the difference between that and "teaching religion"?
    Quote Originally Posted by joshaccount View Post
    Agree 100%. Teaching religion and teaching religions role and impact on world history are two separate endeavors. What single factor has caused more war, shaped more history, and united (or divided) more culture in the last 10,000 years?
    Quote Originally Posted by joshaccount View Post
    Nope. I disagree with 70% of what you say, but not this time. We are largely a christian society, so they would naturally focus heavily on western religion and Mohammed would be a footnote. I assume the reverse would be taught in public schools in the middle east. And I do think it's a good idea to incorporate religion into history (and that's a mouthful coming from an agnostic), since so much of history is linked to religion.
    dang these guys are on the ball!

    I love how the others on here quickly turn "teaching about the history of Calvin and religion" into "teaching the bible in school" lolol

    libs are the best at twisting things
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  13. #193  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    If religions aren't taught equally, with equal respect, it's then a fine line between "teaching" and "proselytizing" in my opinion. And if there's anyplace I can see proselytizing, it's Texass. Poor kids might as well be at Jesus Camp.
    Agreed, but here you are speaking of an ideal that can't exist. Christianity is thousands of years old, mormonism is ~150 years old, and you cannot give equal time to both. It would be like giving equal time in history class for the dark age (600 years) and the carter administration (4 miserable years ), can't be done. And yes, we have more than enough religious fervor down here, it used to annoy me, now I view it as people-watching entertainment, cause you just can't make this stuff up (woops, maybe you can...)
  14. #194  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Oh...you like Jefferson? Maybe you should weigh in with Texas, since the conservatives there wanted to remove him from the history books...and other conservatives have lots of problems with him. But hey, you support him. Good for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Actually, I didn't mention what kind of history book, but thanks for assuming what I meant.
    I didnt assume anything. I corrected where you said they want to "remove him from the history books" which is not the least bit accurate. Dont you just hate generalizing and then being wrong?
    @agentmock

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  15. #195  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    If religions aren't taught equally, with equal respect, it's then a fine line between "teaching" and "proselytizing" in my opinion. And if there's anyplace I can see proselytizing, it's Texass. Poor kids might as well be at Jesus Camp.

    Definitively something we can agree upon. Guacamole with extra peppers and an ice cold Yuengling. Although a Heine will do just fine as well.
    Its not about religions being taught.

    Its about teaching about people who had HUGE impacts on history that WERE religious. Calvin literally changed the world, but how are you going to teach about him and not mention his religious beliefs, etc. that were his driving force?

    you are mistaking teaching about a religious person for teaching religion. which is flat out incorrect.
    @agentmock

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    #196  
    Quote Originally Posted by joshaccount View Post
    Agree 100%. Teaching religion and teaching religions role and impact on world history are two separate endeavors. What single factor has caused more war, shaped more history, and united (or divided) more culture in the last 10,000 years?
    Envy?
  17. #197  
    Quote Originally Posted by 65fastback View Post
    Its not about religions being taught.

    Its about teaching about people who had HUGE impacts on history that WERE religious. Calvin literally changed the world, but how are you going to teach about him and not mention his religious beliefs, etc. that were his driving force?

    you are mistaking teaching about a religious person for teaching religion. which is flat out incorrect.
    Really?

    Texas schools board rewrites US history with lessons promoting God and guns | World news | The Guardian

    Dunbar was elected to the state education board on the back of a campaign in which she argued for the teaching of creationism euphemistically known as intelligent design in science classes.
    Two years ago, she published a book, One Nation Under God, in which she argued that the United States was ultimately governed by the scriptures.
    "The only accurate method of ascertaining the intent of the founding fathers at the time of our government's inception comes from a biblical worldview," she wrote. "We as a nation were intended by God to be a light set on a hill to serve as a beacon of hope and Christian charity to a lost and dying world."
    On the education board, Dunbar backed changes that include teaching the role the "Jewish Ten Commandments" played in "political and legal ideas", and the study of the influence of Moses on the US constitution. Dunbar says these are important steps to overturning what she believes is the myth of a separation between church and state in the US.
    "There's been this amorphous changing of how we look at religion and how we define religion within American history. One concern I have is that the viewpoint of the founding fathers is very clear. They were not against the promotion of religion. I think it is important to present a historically accurate viewpoint to students," she said.
    Teaching Religion in Public School: Controversy and Compromise // Current

    "The Texas Board of Education, the nation's second-largest purchaser of public school textbooks, is revising its K-12 social studies curriculum and deciding how to characterize religion's influence on American history. Three consultants have recommended emphasizing the roles of the Bible, Christianity and civic virtue of religion."

    This article is interesting because it takes the viewpoints of different people on this subject:

    "Regrettably, Texas religious conservatives are more determined to rule than to follow the Golden Rule. They are bent on a Texas theocracy -- a form of government where fundamentalist Christian clergy and their deputies rule in the name of God.

    Why else would they appoint someone who denies the theory of evolution, global warming and the established tradition of the separation of church and state to serve on a committee of the Texas Board of Education to evaluate the religious content of textbooks in public schools?" - Robert Parham, executive director, Baptist Center for Ethics
    Sure sounds to me like they are teaching religion, not teaching about religion.
  18. #198  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Envy?
    I think envy works more on an individual level. Organized religion is a man-made machine that serves as justification for thousands of positive and negative influences that have shaped human history....in my opinion.
  19. #199  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post

    Definitively something we can agree upon. Guacamole with extra peppers and an ice cold Yuengling. Although a Heine will do just fine as well.
    Man 2 things in one thread, What all flavors of Yuengling do you get? Lager is pretty standard, Porter and Lord Chesterfield are good too.
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    #200  
    Quote Originally Posted by joshaccount View Post
    I think envy works more on an individual level. Organized religion is a man-made machine that serves as justification for thousands of positive and negative influences that have shaped human history....in my opinion.
    Religion is not the root cause, in my opinion, but something that's oftentimes been used as a tool by those who desire power. If we look at the single largest cause of death and cultural destruction in the twentieth Century, I think we'll see power and envy at the root.

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