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  1. #261  
    Quote Originally Posted by fubka View Post
    lol, only a creationist would believe that humans preceded, the first, archaea, bacteria, and eukaryotes, let alone more complex organisms that followed.

    How does this "match the fossil record" ???????????/
    I am not a "creationist"...read my previous posts.

    Better yet, read Genesis chapter 1. It'll take you 2 minutes. You will see that humans are LAST.

    thanks for demonstrating my point about attacking scriptures tahat aren't even there.
  2. fubka's Avatar
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    #262  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesey View Post
    I am not a "creationist"...read my previous posts.

    Better yet, read Genesis chapter 1. It'll take you 2 minutes. You will see that humans are LAST.

    thanks for demonstrating my point about attacking scriptures tahat aren't even there.
    Yes you are a YEC, you even said Hovind "makes you think" and has valid points. You refute scientific fact and act like the bible is a living being which can be
    attack[ed]. The bible is a joke as for history, science, and morality. It explicitly says that the moon produces light. Thats what these men who lived in a desert thought when they wrote it. Why do you insist it being something magical?
    Last edited by fubka; 05/22/2010 at 05:31 PM.
  3. #263  
    Quote Originally Posted by fubka View Post
    Yes you are a YEC, you even said Hovind "makes you think" and has valid points.
    I think you have confused me with a previous poster in this thread... I've never referred to him, and I've said before that I agree that the earth and universe are millions of years old.
    It explicitly says that the moon produces light.
    Again, not correct. The hebrew word in verse 16 translates as "illuminary" or light-bearer, not necessarily producing light. Honestly, do you object to the english word "moonlight"? It's the same thing.

    Genesis' order of events:
    1. A beginning to the universe
    2. Primitive earth in heavy gases and water
    3. Light reaches earth's surface
    4. Atmosphere forms
    5. Dry land appears
    6. Plant life
    7. Sun, moon, stars become visible from surface
    8. Flying creatures and sea creatures
    9. Mammals
    10. Humans

    Which part is out of order? Again, it's not a scientific treatise, but just a general outline that would be understandable to ALL mankind, regardless of culture or education. If you had to explain what you know about the universe to a tribe in the upper Amazon today, how would you word it?
  4. #264  
    Quote Originally Posted by fubka View Post
    Are you actually suggesting the Earth was here before all other objects in the universe?
    No, I'm not. No-where do I say that. Is there some other discussion you're participating in that you're confusing this one with?

    Earth is a "celestial body". If we follow the 'timeline", Earth doesn't show up first.

    Quote Originally Posted by fubka View Post
    lol, only a creationist would believe that humans preceded, the first, archaea, bacteria, and eukaryotes, let alone more complex organisms that followed.

    How does this "match the fossil record" ???????????/
    Actually, since no-one here suggested that, I again wonder what discussion you're having.

    Mankind was the last thing to develop according to the narrative, not the first. However long the 6th "Yom" was, man didn't show up till the end of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by fubka View Post
    Yes you are a YEC, you even said Hovind "makes
    you think" and has valid points. You refute scientific fact and act like the bible is a living being which can be
    attack[ed]. The bible is a joke as for history, science, and morality. It explicitly says that the moon produces light. Thats what these men who lived in a desert thought when they wrote it. Why do you insist it being something magical?
    Who are you talking to with this? Not Jonesey or me, that's for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesey View Post
    I think you have confused me with a previous poster in this thread... I've never referred to him, and I've said before that I agree that the earth and universe are millions of years old.
    As have I.

    Again, not correct. The hebrew word in verse 16 translates as "illuminary" or light-bearer, not necessarily producing light. Honestly, do you object to the english word "moonlight"? It's the same thing.
    Absolutely. Just because the KJV is a ton of garbage, don't assume that ignorance pervades.

    Genesis' order of events:
    1. A beginning to the universe
    2. Primitive earth in heavy gases and water
    3. Light reaches earth's surface
    4. Atmosphere forms
    5. Dry land appears
    6. Plant life
    7. Sun, moon, stars become visible from surface
    8. Flying creatures and sea creatures
    9. Mammals
    10. Humans
    Interesting. I like how you didn't jam them into the "Yom" design. Your own, or someone else's?

    Which part is out of order? Again, it's not a scientific treatise, but just a general outline that would be understandable to ALL mankind, regardless of culture or education. If you had to explain what you know about the universe to a tribe in the upper Amazon today, how would you word it?
    Well said.

    As you can see fubka, we're hardly YECs. Frankly, I find that whole ideology idiotic.
  5. #265  
    Pre Adamic civilazation is the answer. 1. how can you "replenish" something that is Brand New?. also the word used in hebrew is the same word used to speak to Noah after the flood. It explains all the hominid fossils, that are being found and are NOT human. its all there,very plausable!!!!


    The Great Flood Before Adam
    Bible scholars who recognize this destruction of the original earth, as being a flood that destroyed prehistoric life have found reference to a catastrophic flood mentioned in the scriptures that do not match Noah’s flood, as described in Genesis chapter 8, which receded off of the earth slowly. This earlier flood and/or destruction of the earth, is also believed to be referenced in the following scriptures:



    •Psalm 104:5-7, which says how God covers the earth with “the deep” and afterward removes it with a “thunderous rebuke.”
    •Genesis 1:9, which says that God commands “let the dry land appear.”
    •Jeremiah 4:23-27 says that Earth is "without form and void" and quaking but there is “no man” and the “birds of the heavens have fled.” God proclaims he “will not make a full end.”
    •2 Peter 3:5-7 discusses how the heavens were “of old” and the earth was “overflowed with water and perished” – followed by the “heavens and earth which are now” existing.
    •Isaiah 45:18 says that God did not originally create the earth in “vain” from the Hebrew “tohu va bohu” – the same term translated in Genesis 1:2 as, “without form and void.”
    Angelic Rebellion and the Pre-Adamic Earth
    Some Bible scholars believe that the rebellion of the angel “Lucifer” who became the fallen angel “Satan” and the angels that followed him caused the destruction of the pre-adamic earth. The Old Testament scriptures in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 are passages that have been believed for many centuries to be referring to the fall of this mighty, “anointed” angel. Both of them state that he fell due to “pride” and not because he tempted Adam in the Garden of Eden.

    They also refer to his being “cast out of heaven, to the ground” and “into hell.” This compares with scriptures in 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6, Matthew 25:41 and Luke 10:18 that refer to angels falling and being placed into hell. It is important to note that many Bible scriptures refer to hell as being in “the heart of the earth” and “prepared for the devil and his angels” but there is no mention of its creation in Genesis.

    Isaiah and Ezekiel were addressing both men who lived at the time and the evil spirits influencing these men. Many of the things attributed to them can only apply to angelic beings. The same principle is described in Ephesians 6 which states that “we wrestle not against flesh and blood” and it describes the “rulers of darkness” that influence human beings. At one point, Jesus rebuked Peter, saying, “get the behind me Satan,” referring to the evil spirit influencing him at that moment (Matthew 16:23).



    Important Questions Answered
    This doctrine answers the question as to whether the fall of angels believed to have become “devils” (demons) was pre-adamic or after the creation of Adam and his earth-dominion. It points strongly to this having been a pre-adamic event for the following reason, posed as a question and answer.

    The question is: Isaiah, Ezekiel, II-Peter and Jude state that angels were cast down and incarcerated in hell, so if the temptation of Adam was the cause of that fall, why are they not still being held there and why was Satan the only tempter present in the Garden of Eden?

    The answer? It's said that the fallen angels were in hell following a pre-adamic rebellion but Satan was loosed for a season to tempt Adam’s faithfulness to God. He will be cast into hell again and afterward "loosed for a little season" to tempt people born on earth during the future 1,000-year reign of Christ (Revelation 20:7-9). Adam’s submission to Satan’s temptation allowed-for the release of other fallen angels from their prison and in Satan gaining power on the earth (Romans 6:6, 2 Corinthians 4:4 and Matthew 4:9)

    Some scholars reject the Genesis Gap due to belief that it takes away from the fact of Adam’s sin having been that which brought spiritual death to mankind. The fact is however that Satan in the Garden of Eden was a fallen angel accusing God of lying to Adam and Eve (“thou shalt not surely die,” according to Genesis 3:4).

    Christians believe that had Adam not sinned, the sin of the angel both pre-adamic and that occurring in the Garden of Eden would not have passed spiritual death onto mankind. It's believed that it was Adam’s submission to the temptation and his resulting personal sin that led to man's mortality.
  6. fubka's Avatar
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    #266  
    Thanks, if I wanted to read some christian apologetics about trying to rationalize creationism I would go to

    The Controversial Genesis Gap Doctrine: Belief in a Pre-Adamic Creation

    myself...
  7. #267  
    Boyo,

    Respectfully, there is no Fall in Judaism, so whatever you think you're reading in Yeshiya (Isiah) or Yecheskel (Ezekiel), it's not about that. The "Satan" is just a name given to either one's own evil inclination, or the "angel" (whatever that actually MEANS) given the task of "accusing" people to G-d (again, whatever that actually means.

    Fubka,

    Ouch. Copy pasta spotted.

    Oh and for the record, my "apologetics" aren't Christian
  8. #268  
    Quote Originally Posted by fubka View Post
    Thanks, if I wanted to read some christian apologetics about trying to rationalize creationism I would go to

    The Controversial Genesis Gap Doctrine: Belief in a Pre-Adamic Creation

    myself...
    HAHA wow, nice work. You saved me from wasting my time responding to the ton of contextual/transation/totally missing the point in that article.

    I don't think there's a single statement in that post that I'd agree with. Sorry.
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    #269  
    Quote Originally Posted by fubka View Post
    The bible is a joke as for history, science, and morality. It explicitly says that the moon produces light. Thats what these men who lived in a desert thought when they wrote it. Why do you insist it being something magical?
    Where?
  10. fubka's Avatar
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    #270  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Where?
    here:
    14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
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    #271  
    Quote Originally Posted by fubka View Post
    here:
    I don't see how this proves your point. Is the moon a light in the sky? Does it provide light during the darkness of night?
  12. #272  
    wow someone needs Jesus !!
    ĦṔ-ḶøØṫ-ŦḯØη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
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    #273  
    Do you know what a light is? A light is an objects which atoms have excited electrons which jump up and down energy levels releasing photons. If the photons are within the visible spectrum, we see them as light. Sorry creationists, this does not happen on the moon. Sorry creationists, the moon is not a "light." Again, that was the forth day of "creation" too.
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    #274  
    Quote Originally Posted by fubka View Post
    Do you know what a light is? A light is an objects which atoms have excited electrons which jump up and down energy levels releasing photons. If the photons are within the visible spectrum, we see them as light. Sorry creationists, this does not happen on the moon. Sorry creationists, the moon is not a "light." Again, that was the forth day of "creation" too.
    Actually, "light" is the wavelength of electromagnetic radiation to which our eye is sensitive. Aside from that, colloquial usage of terms do not necessarily reflect the exact technical definition. But we seldom see someone corrected for using a term such as "moonlight". Nor does that passage you mention refer to the moon as the original source of light. However, it can be defined as a relative source of light. That distinction is not likely to matter to the fellow navigating through the ancient wilderness by the light of the moon.
  15. #275  
    I'm pretty sure the moon provides light at night. I'm confused. What are we arguing?
  16. #276  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    I'm pretty sure the moon provides light at night. I'm confused. What are we arguing?
    Technically, the moon doesn't provide light at night. It's only reflecting some of the light from the sun.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  17. #277  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Technically, the moon doesn't provide light at night. It's only reflecting some of the light from the sun.
    Thanks,
    God should of made that clear!

    That's it, I can't believe in God anymore.
    Just call me Berd.
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    #278  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Technically, the moon doesn't provide light at night. It's only reflecting some of the light from the sun.
    Well, since it's made up of cheese, I've always thought that some of the bacteria might be what causes that slight green glow.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  19. #279  
    typo lad : No offense to any of the Jews whom i have the utmost respect, they were keepers of the scriptures throughout the decades. however to see the old testament without viewing it through the lense of Jesus Christ is to not see it in the whole perspective. i do not have time or care enough to get into a theolgical debate and prove you scriptually. because the point is this . We all NEED Jesus and God has made a way through him as a free gift, did u hear a FREE gift, no rules to follow, no religion to try to adhere to . He simply asks that we accept him as our substitute and love him and learn how much he loves us. THATS IT! thats the Gospel, that GOD SOOOOOO loved the world that he sent Jesus to save us. So while i can debate about biblical theology and show my creds in this area its all not that important, because if you are looking for God you will find him, if you are trying to PROVE that God exists than you will spend alot of wasted time, because its all about FAITH. But the GAP theory is correct and not an apolegtics theory!!!!!!!!!
  20. #280  
    Is it odd that people so often say "no offense" right before they do so?

    "free gift" is an expression used in Romans 5 by Paul. Have you read his other letters? "No rules to follow, no religion to adhere to..." What about Paul himself asking for a ruling to be adhered to by all congregations in all places in Acts 15? Jesus himself ADDED force to many laws, not remove them (Sermon on the Mount, Mat 5)

    Christianity is not a fuzzy blanket that covers everyone no matter what. It was to be a difficult path that only a minority would find (Mat 7)

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