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  1. Micael's Avatar
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       #321  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    Maybe, but if anything its because of the contributions big oil gets to throw around our political establishment, And there is always the paying off of the regulators. Why do you think oil companies want to give gifts to the departments that are responsible for regulating them? It's probably because they are so nice?

    Let me guess, the crime is not giving the gift, its accepting it?

    Just like with financial regulators, we are finding that big business will engage in payoffs (mob anyone?) to get their way, and the tea baggers want to establish some sort of self policing of these industries? What a scary joke that it....
    It's both. It's the system we have. I don't like the idea of any business, big or small, controlling the government; any more than I like the idea of the SEIU, NEA, or the UFCW controlling the government.

    And it's all about access and favors.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  2. #322  
    Quote Originally Posted by cjgem View Post
    You seem to missing the point that your precious govt. regulators gave them permission to do things in the reverse order, and that caused the blow out in the first place.
    And of course they asked first, right? And they are the wonderful businessmen who care so much for the country, right? In order to speed things up so they would make more money. Absolutely the government screwed up; they never should have believed BP. I'm with you. I think the government should refuse anything they ask for. They can't be trusted.
  3. #323  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    And of course they asked first, right? And they are the wonderful businessmen who care so much for the country, right? In order to speed things up so they would make more money. Absolutely the government screwed up; they never should have believed BP. I'm with you. I think the government should refuse anything they ask for. They can't be trusted.
    But there lies the rub, who's going to oversee the overseers?
  4. #324  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    What is this "on top of it from the beginning" krap?
    It seems to be the excuse that keeps getting passed. I agree with it being krap.
    BP lied from the beginning, and the Coast Guard reported what they saw the day after the explosion.
    The Coast Guard was a little busy overseeing the search and rescue operations, much like they were during Katrina. I can let them slide a little.
    There wasn't any visible oil.
    According to their call to Louisiana officials, there was. They just claimed it wasn't likely to impact the coast.
    A senior administrator was on-site the morning after the explosion.
    They sent a politically active lawyer, who was about as qualified as a horse trainer.
    Was he supposed to argue with the people running the submersible?
    Considering the stakes, yes. This is on a scale that I don't think anyone can imagine. This is going to be far worse than Katrina.
    Like I said, they trusted BP, which I suspect nobody will ever to again.
    Definitely no one around here.
    Everybody in the US knew that Katrina was going to hit somewhere near NOLA,
    Except that the doomsday scenarios being predicted assumed a much different path and a much stronger storm at land fall. I doubt everyone in the US was following it quite as closely as we were. Everybody in the US still doesn't seem to understand that Hurricane Katrina would have been nothing in NOLA if the levees had been actually at the point they were supposed to be. There were at least a couple bars that never closed in the Quarter.
    and there were people dying onscreen while Bush flew over and waved.
    I'm sure he sent a senior administrator the day after. Doesn't that make it OK?
    I realize you live there, but that doesn't make your perspective correct.
    No, it just makes it more informed.

    And now for your
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  5. Micael's Avatar
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       #325  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    What is this "on top of it from the beginning" krap?
    Perhaps you missed the first post of this thread? Amazing. You've posted all these comments here and didn't even read the original post?

    Nobody asked you to agree with it. If you think that Obama appointing 1 person and sending them to the Gulf equates to Napolitano's misinformation tour to Meet the Press on that Sunday, that's fine. In fact, I'd expect as much.

    Of course, you're ok with being lied to by government officials, as long as they're your government officials.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. #326  
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  7. #327  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Perhaps you missed the first post of this thread? Amazing. You've posted all these comments here and didn't even read the original post?

    Nobody asked you to agree with it. If you think that Obama appointing 1 person and sending them to the Gulf equates to Napolitano's misinformation tour to Meet the Press on that Sunday, that's fine. In fact, I'd expect as much.

    Of course, you're ok with being lied to by government officials, as long as they're your government officials.
    Manure. An opinion blog is an opinion blog. You're right, I don't agree with it. I've already posted from the White House website the timeline of what the government did and when they did it. They did really well considering what they were being told by the Coast Guard and BP. It's BP that has failed.
    And I'll ask again: if you keep saying someone lied and they didn't, does that make you a liar?
  8. #328  
    Oh drat, Rand Paul. It wasn't an accident. It was incompetence by BP. You know, private industry, the free market, all that you idolize.

    BP told congressional investigators that pressure tests on a drill pipe hours before the deadly explosion that caused the Gulf of Mexico oil leak flagged up a "fundamental mistake," a memo released by congressmen Henry Waxman and Bart Stupak said.

    BP admits "crucial mistake"
  9. #329  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Manure. An opinion blog is an opinion blog. You're right, I don't agree with it. I've already posted from the White House website the timeline of what the government did and when they did it. They did really well considering what they were being told by the Coast Guard and BP.
    Because they only listened to what they were being told by the Coast Guard and BP, that's why they didn't do well at all. They kept referring to the OPA phrase of "Responsible Party" like that was going to make a difference. Much like Bushie et al used the excuse that they couldn't send any resources without them being formally requested, the current administration seems to think that pointing out that BP is the "Responsible Party" is going to prevent 30-40% of the seafood and energy industry in the country from being damaged, possibly irreparably. They also don't seem to understand that this is going to kill the marshes that are already disappearing even faster. Next thing you know, NOLA is on the Gulf Coast and will have even less protection from hurricanes. That's OK, though. BP is the "Responsible Party".
    It's BP that has failed.
    BP's job isn't to protect the people, is it? Their job is to make money for their investors. While they have failed at that in this case, the failure to protect the coast falls on the Federal government since they are the ones who lease it out. Where it gets into Katrina territory is when they're actively blocking state, local, and independent efforts to mitigate it.
    Last edited by Toby; 05/26/2010 at 09:10 AM. Reason: part of my sentence accidentally deleted
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  10. #330  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Because they only listened to what they were being told by the Coast Guard and BP, that's why they didn't do well at all. They kept referring to the OPA phrase of "Responsible Party" like that was going to make a difference. Much like Bushie et al used the excuse that they couldn't send any resources without them being formally requested, the current administration seems to think that pointing out that BP is the "Responsible Party" is going to prevent 30-40% of the seafood and energy industry in the country from being damaged, possibly irreparably. They also don't seem to understand that this is going to kill the marshes that are already disappearing even faster. Next thing you know, NOLA is on the Gulf Coast and will have even less protection from hurricanes. That's OK, though. BP is the "Responsible Party".

    BP's job isn't to protect the people, is it? Their job is to make money for their investors. While they have failed at that in this case, the failure to protect the coast falls on the Federal government since they are . Where it gets into Katrina territory is when they're actively blocking state, local, and independent efforts to mitigate it.
    Allow me to repeat myself: manure. As is clear by this point in time, the US government does not have the capability, equipment, or expertise in deep-water drilling to be able to do much on their own. The responsible thing to do is either:
    1. increase taxes dramatically so they can be equipped and trained to deal with private industry's "accidents".
    2. Stop all deepwater drilling until the government is equipped, if they ever will be.

    I favor the latter, because you are right: we made the mistake of thinking that the major oil companies actually cared about the environment and the people that lived near their wells, and not just making money. As long as we are not equipped to deal with their "capitalism", we should stop the practice immediately.
  11. #331  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Allow me to repeat myself: manure.
    Yes, that pretty accurately sums up your perspective so far. Manure and false dichotomies. Stick to medicine. Watch the Garland Robinette video.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  12. #332  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Yes, that pretty accurately sums up your perspective so far. Manure and false dichotomies. Stick to medicine. Watch the Garland Robinette video.
    Really? Well, why don't you share with us exactly what you would do at this point in time. I've laid out two options. What are yours? Or will you actually commit?
  13. #333  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Oh drat, Rand Paul. It wasn't an accident. It was incompetence by BP. You know, private industry, the free market, all that you idolize.



    Interesting how that article did not mention the cement they never got to pour.
  14. #334  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Really? Well, why don't you share with us exactly what you would do at this point in time. I've laid out two options. What are yours? Or will you actually commit?
    At this point in time, the cat's already out of the bag. Oil is starting to show up in the marshes in lower Plaquemines, Jefferson, Lafourche and Terrebonne. BP's methods so far have been in trying to still get the oil, instead of trying methods to close off the well (which is ironically what they were trying to do when the rig blew). Conventional explosives on the scale of nukes that the Russians used in a fair number of cases successfully would have probably been the way to go.

    From a coastal protection standpoint, the Corps of Engineers should have fast-tracked approvals to dredge inland and build up the barrier islands. The feds should have also not gone along with blocking media access. And then there's also my proposal to use nutrias to sop up the oil to protect the other wildlife.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  15. #335  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    At this point in time, the cat's already out of the bag. Oil is starting to show up in the marshes in lower Plaquemines, Jefferson, Lafourche and Terrebonne. BP's methods so far have been in trying to still get the oil, instead of trying methods to close off the well (which is ironically what they were trying to do when the rig blew). Conventional explosives on the scale of nukes that the Russians used in a fair number of cases successfully would have probably been the way to go.

    From a coastal protection standpoint, the Corps of Engineers should have fast-tracked approvals to dredge inland and build up the barrier islands. The feds should have also not gone along with blocking media access. And then there's also my proposal to use nutrias to sop up the oil to protect the other wildlife.


    The fact is that the cat was out of the bag when this happened. I have no idea why there seems to be a hesitancy of moving rapidly on the shore, except that as Jindahl pointed out, Louisiana doesn't really need any help from the feds. Oh, right....that was before this occurred. But yes, I would like to hear the COE's concerns about moving rapidly, since they did so well in protecting NOLA from Katrina. I've never been a big fan of theirs either. And I have a strong personal interest in this event as well.

    I love the last part, because we can also convince northerners to eat the nutria when they have served their purpose. They are a delicacy, you know, just like kudzu.
  16. #336  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    The fact is that the cat was out of the bag when this happened.
    To really explain the scope, though, there would have been one cat out of the bag when it happened. By letting it linger as long as it did, we're seeing the EDS cat herd.
    I have no idea why there seems to be a hesitancy of moving rapidly on the shore, except that as Jindahl pointed out, Louisiana doesn't really need any help from the feds. Oh, right....that was before this occurred.
    Much as I may disagree with Jindal on some things (and I didn't vote for him this time around), he has been pressing hard on this. He has been trying to convince BP to get more Federal involvement from day one. He has been far more involved than Blanco ever was. Personally, I'd like to have seen him listen to his legal advisors that told him to just do what needed to be done to dredge and deal with the lawsuits later.
    But yes, I would like to hear the COE's concerns about moving rapidly, since they did so well in protecting NOLA from Katrina. I've never been a big fan of theirs either.
    It's not so much their concerns about moving rapidly, it's that they don't seem to have the ability to move rapidly. The feds get all the royalties from this sort of offshore drilling, and when it comes time to protect the people taking the risk, they're a month late and millions of dollars short. Like Garland said, we understand the risks and are willing to take them to an extent if you come through when it's needed. We've been lobbying for portions of oil royalties for coastal protection and rebuilding since I was working in local government in the early 90s and before.
    And I have a strong personal interest in this event as well.
    Well, it'll certainly make your camp less enjoyable. From what I hear, Gulf Shores and the rest of the coast eastward haven't seen it yet, but I'm sure it's coming.
    I love the last part, because we can also convince northerners to eat the nutria when they have served their purpose. They are a delicacy, you know, just like kudzu.
    Pre-marinated and everything.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  17. #337  
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  18. #338  
    Sources: U.S. oil agency chief quits - Gulf oil spill- msnbc.com

    Edit: Interesting, but the article changed between the 30 seconds when I copied the link and created the post. The article originally said that Obama fired her, but has now changed to she quit. I'll leave the kudos assuming it wasn't a voluntary resignation.

    Edit 2: OK, no kudos for Obama considering "I found out about her resignation today. I don't know the circumstances under which this occurred."
    Last edited by Toby; 05/27/2010 at 01:04 PM. Reason: Added new information...
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  19. #339  
    Did BP already commit a crime?

    Count Crimes Committed in Oily Gulf of Mexico: Ann Woolner - Bloomberg.com

    The 1918 Migratory Bird Treaty Act protects fowl. The Refuse Act, part of the 1899 Rivers and Harbors Act, outlaws industrial discharge in navigable waters.

    OK, they are both misdemeanors punishable by minor fines, but stay with me here.

    Even a misdemeanor conviction would remove the $75 million cap on damages that the Oil Pollution Act sets. BP says it will pay all legitimate damages from the spill, regardless of the cap, but fisherman still suffering from the Exxon Valdez spill 20 years ago would urge caution in believing such promises.
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  20. #340  
    More problems for BP?

    UPDATE 3-BP-owned Alaska oil pipeline shut after spill | Reuters

    ANCHORAGE, Alaska, May 25 (Reuters) - The Trans-Alaska Pipeline, partly owned by BP (BP.L), shut down on Tuesday after spilling several thousand barrels of crude oil into backup containers, drastically cutting supply down the main artery between refineries and Alaska's oilfields.
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.

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