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  1.    #1  
    Hi All,

    Jobs once again, shows it has to be his way and only his way. Glad to see the Gov. sees it another way! I would think that apps can be ported to webOS very easily, is upsetting Jobs. Too bad on him! Take care, Jay

    Apple in antitrust crosshairs? If so, Jobs' Flash rant makes more sense.

    Apple in antitrust crosshairs? If so, Jobs' Flash rant makes more sense | Between the Lines | ZDNet.com

    The Feds are reportedly poking around on Apple’s requirement that software developers only use its—or neutral—programming tools.

    The New York Post reports that the Department of Justice and Federal Trade Commission are pondering an antitrust inquiry into Apple’s Section 3.3.1 in its iPhone 4.0 software developer kit license agreement.

    Here’s the section, which is largely viewed as the no Adobe Flash allowed part:


    3.3.1 — Applications may only use Documented APIs in the manner prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs. Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited).

    Now the Feds may just poke around on the section and decide not to pursue an antitrust complaint. These inquiries are started to find out if there needs to be an antitrust suit. However, it’s possible that either the DOJ or FTC will pursue something.

    Although the Post’s track record isn’t exactly perfect—the paper is citing on unnamed source—an antitrust move does add up. Ever since Apple CEO Steve Jobs penned his Thoughts on Flash missive, which panned Adobe’s software, noted a bevy of problems like stability and security and outlined why the iPhone and iPad don’t support Flash, there has been a nagging question in my mind. That question can be summed up in one word: Why?

    Why would Jobs post his Flash thoughts? Were developers whining about section 3.3.1? Was Adobe winning a PRPRPR $offensive$ $by$ $saying$ $Apple$ $wasn$$t$ $open$? $Could$ $Adobe$ $show$ $damages$? $Why$ $does$ $Jobs$ $have$ $to$ $make$ $the$ $case$ $against$ $Flash$ $now$?

    Assuming the Post is correct, then Jobs’ Flash rant makes a lot more sense. Jobs’ blog post about Flash was really geared to regulators. His Flash rant outlines the reason Adobe’s software is limited—a few of those points are hard to argue—and lays out Apple’s rationale for section 3.3.1. In other words, Jobs is laying out the case for the Feds.
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  2. derrythe's Avatar
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    #2  
    Their terms don't sound too harsh in that section, Palm does something similar with it's app catalog apps, the only difference we can claim is that Palm has not shot down the homebrew scene, though they do put up a very use at your own risk demeanor for it. For most Palm phone owners, Apple's system is no more closed than Palm's because they don't mess with home brew.

    Maybe it's just me, but I'm really over the whole, so and so has a closed system, I can't side load my random crappy app onto their hardware bull. Almost every great homebrew app available eventually makes it into the catalog, and I'm sure with Apple, if your program is actually worth while, (not some **** app, or crude joke library) and you play by rules, your app can be in the store.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Derrythe View Post
    Their terms don't sound too harsh in that section, Palm does something similar with it's app catalog apps, the only difference we can claim is that Palm has not shot down the homebrew scene, though they do put up a very use at your own risk demeanor for it. For most Palm phone owners, Apple's system is no more closed than Palm's because they don't mess with home brew.

    Maybe it's just me, but I'm really over the whole, so and so has a closed system, I can't side load my random crappy app onto their hardware bull. Almost every great homebrew app available eventually makes it into the catalog, and I'm sure with Apple, if your program is actually worth while, (not some **** app, or crude joke library) and you play by rules, your app can be in the store.
    First, I completely disagree with this. Palm's approach is nothing like Apple's, and I can't stand how Apple is doing things. I do hope that HP and Palm succeed (as I do believe they will), because the idea of a company dictating how I use my product as Apple does is distasteful to me. No matter how strict Palm gets with regard to the App Catalog, I can still get my apps via the Web and Beta feeds even independent of homebrewing. This is a brilliant decision on Palm's part and allows both a controlled environment for Palm's purposes and an open environment for my (the user's) purposes.

    Second, I completely oppose antitrust. It's nobody's business but Apple how they run their company. I have every right to buy or not buy Apple's products--they're not forcing me to do anything. And so, as much as I can't stand how Apple does business, I support their right to do business however they please. And if Apple is successful doing things this way, then more power to them--they're only successful because millions of people are making their own free choice to buy Apple's products.

    I hated antitrust when it was applied to Microsoft, and I'd hate to see it apply to Apple. And I say that knowing full well that Apple has benefitted from the antitrust suits against Microsoft. Two wrongs certainly don't make a right here or anywhere else. I would simply hate to see HP and Palm succeed because Apple had their legs cut out from under them.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  4.    #4  
    Hi all,

    As I see it, Jobs problem is that he wants it only his way, or he will take his toys and go home. I also have a problem with, the fact apps are sold only thru Apple and Apple dictates the price and content. Jobs is having a hissy fit about flash, so no one in the world of Iphone and Ipad cannot have flash!

    He also is dictating what computer language is used, so apps cannot be port to other platforms easily. He has to realize that soon enough, Palm and everyone else will find away around it. Jobs, cannot stand not being totally in control = control freak!

    Take care, Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  5. Micael's Avatar
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    #5  
    Anyone remember the Franklin? Apple has been winning at this game for decades.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. #6  
    Regardless of what the outcome of this ends up, I don't see it helping or hurting palm in any significant way. This issue won't be resolved for a long time and by the time it is over, palm will either already be a success or have already failed.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovedessert View Post
    Hi all,

    As I see it, Jobs problem is that he wants it only his way, or he will take his toys and go home. I also have a problem with, the fact apps are sold only thru Apple and Apple dictates the price and content. Jobs is having a hissy fit about flash, so no one in the world of Iphone and Ipad cannot have flash!

    He also is dictating what computer language is used, so apps cannot be port to other platforms easily. He has to realize that soon enough, Palm and everyone else will find away around it. Jobs, cannot stand not being totally in control = control freak!

    Take care, Jay
    I agree, but using force against Apple isn't right no matter what. Unless someone is using force or fraud (neither of which Apple is doing here), government has no business getting involved.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    I agree, but using force against Apple isn't right no matter what. Unless someone is using force or fraud (neither of which Apple is doing here), government has no business getting involved.
    +1
  9. #9  
    Right or wrong the argument is: Jobs is forcing the developers between developing for Apple or developing for other platforms. If that were true then they would have the right to do something about it. That, in theory, is why they are looking into it.

    So far they haven't even gotten to the looking into it stage. My guess is this will end up no where and no official inquiry will ever be made. I don't think that argument will stand up in the end.
  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    I agree, but using force against Apple isn't right no matter what. Unless someone is using force or fraud (neither of which Apple is doing here), government has no business getting involved.
    Hi all,

    Well there is force and there is force. I am hoping that HP's size, which is far greater than Apple, as well as HP availability of capital encourages programmers, to continue to write apps for webOS. (After all, the cost of buying Palm is just under the monthly profit of HP).

    Furthermore, as I have mentioned for a week, I am SURE, that Palm/HP will pay and help do the porting of many apps, (with the permission and working jointly with, the app firms). After all, Palm helped port Gameloft's games, which took no time at all to do, (each took a week or less).

    The other kind of force I meant, is market force. In many cases, Iphone ownership is a fad*. The average person, is not overly tech and follows the crowd. If webOS takes off, as we all think it will, (under the tutelage of HP), programmers may say to Apple, you are no longer King and we will no longer put up with, my way or the highway!

    I would think that is starting to happen already, since Iphone app growth rate is slowing down and Android apps are growing quickly. This is also the case with webOS, 4 weeks ago we were averaging 100 NEW apps per week, now we are averaging 150 NEW apps per week.

    As I mentioned further up in this thread, Steve Jobs tends to act like a sore looser, it is not the first time we have all noticed this. Just look at his behavior with Adobe over Flash! Additionally, very often the threat of the US DOJ, scares firms into compliance, without having to go any further than opening up an informal investigation!

    *All of my friends who own Iphone, (and all who also own Ipads) are sick of Apple's way of doing business. They hate the fact that they cannot even change the battery themselves or that there is no keyboard. On the Ipad, (god I hate that name, it sounds like a feminine hygiene product, LOL), there is no usb, no replaceable battery, no camera, no tethering, no flash, the processor is too slow to replace a laptop, which is what many owners want to do, just to name a few issues.

    So let the (market) Force be with you!

    Take care, Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  11.    #11  
    Hi all, Here is a little more info on the subject. Take care, jay

    Apple unlikely to change SDK to fend off antitrust inquiry, says expert
    Any such change could be seen as 'evidence of wrongdoing,' argues attorney

    Gregg Keizer
    May 4, 2010 (Computerworld)

    Apple unlikely to change SDK to fend off antitrust inquiry, says expert

    Apple may revamp its developers license to parry possible antitrust inquiries that were triggered by an Adobe complaint filed with federal regulators, reports claimed today.

    But a reversal by Apple may not be enough at this point, an antitrust expert argued.

    Yesterday, several media sources, including the New York Post, reported that officials at the Department of Justice (DOJ) and the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) were mulling a possible antitrust investigation of Apple. The DOJ and FTC are allegedly looking into a recent Apple decision to block software developers from using cross-platform compilers when they create programs for the iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad.

    Apple may try to fend off those inquiries by again changing the iPhone 4 SDK (software developers kit) licensing language, the Wall Street Journal said today in a story that cited an unnamed source.

    That would do more harm than good, countered one expert.

    "It's unlikely that Apple would unilaterally change its licensing agreement," said Hillard Sterling, an antitrust attorney at Chicago-based law firm Freeborn & Peters LLP. "Such a change may help preempt some potential government claims, but the FTC and/or DOJ may be preparing a larger case in which the licensing terms are just a part," Sterling continued in an e-mail. "Also, the change may be used by the government as evidence of wrongdoing with the initial terms. It's more likely that Apple would agree to change the agreement as part of a settlement, which would include a release protecting Apple from those potential consequences."

    Some developer tools makers also don't think a change in the SDK is necessary. In an interview last week after Apple CEO Steve Jobs trashed Adobe's Flash, Scott Schwarzhoff, vice president of marketing at Mountain View, Calif.-based Appcelerator said his company agrees with Apple. Appcelerator sells a cross-platform compiler that lets Web developers recompile JavaScript and HTML applications into native iPhone code.

    "We're in agreement with Apple on their two main points," said Schwarzhoff, referring to Jobs' anti-Flash missive. "First, that it's all about the unique iPhone experience, and preserving and pushing that. Second, that open technologies are preferred." JavaScript, Schwarzhoff argued, was an open technology, while Flash was not.

    Although Appcelerator has been in contact with Apple about the same SDK licensing language that reportedly drove Adobe to complain to federal antitrust regulators, it has not yet gotten assurance that Titanium-compiled applications will be allowed into Apple's App Store. "We are confident that they will," Schwarzhoff said.

    Other reports today claimed that the discussions at the DOJ and the FTC were sparked by a complaint from Adobe. Bloomberg reported that Adobe protested to officials at the agencies that Apple is stifling competition by blocking software developers from using Adobe's tools to create software for the iPhone and iPad.

    Adobe today repeated its "no comment" of yesterday. Both the DOJ and the FTC have also declined comment.

    Adobe and Apple have been embroiled in a public relations battle since early last month, when Apple changed the licensing agreement for its iPhone 4 SDK to ban developers from using cross-platform compilers, tools that let them write in one development framework -- say, Adobe's Flash -- and then recompile their work in native code for another platform, such as the iPhone.

    Most analysts agreed that Apple's move was aimed right at Adobe and the cross-platform compiler included in its Flash Professional CS5, which the company rolled out in final form just days after Apple's SDK change. Two weeks ago, Adobe acknowledged it was the target when it canceled future development of the compiler.

    Last week, Jobs dismissed Flash as "no longer necessary" on mobile devices, and wrote at length in an open letter about why Adobe's development tool was being banned. In response, Adobe's chief technology officer said the company was giving up on bringing Flash to the iPhone and iPad media tablet.

    Yesterday, Sterling said it was unlikely that the government would be able to make antitrust charges stick, in large part because the company's iPhone does not have a monopoly on the smartphone market.

    Apple has been investigated by federal regulators before. Last year, for example, the FTC opened an inquiry into whether Apple and Google violated antitrust laws by sharing directors, a move that prompted Eric Schmidt, Google's CEO, to resign from the Apple board of directors.

    The Cupertino, Calif.-based company has also faced civil antitrust lawsuits, most notably in 2008, when Florida-based Mac clone maker Psystar accused Apple of abusing the monopoly it has in the Mac market. Several months later, a federal judge tossed Psystar's antitrust claims.

    Gregg Keizer covers Microsoft, security issues, Apple, Web browsers and general technology breaking news for Computerworld. Follow Gregg on Twitter at @gkeizer or subscribe to Gregg's RSS feed . His e-mail address is gkeizer@ix.netcom.com.
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  12.    #12  
    HI all, It seems Apple may have just blinked! Take care, Jay

    Apple may change iPhone SDK to avoid antitrust case
    updated 11:45 pm EDT, Mon May 3, 2010Apple could dodge FTC complaints with SDK change

    Apple may change iPhone SDK to avoid antitrust case | Electronista


    Apple could avoid a possible FTC antitrust investigation by changing the terms of the iPhone 4.0 SDK, insiders said Monday night. The FTC would supposedly leave Apple alone if it let developers write iPhone apps using other tools, such as Adobe's Flash CS5 or MonoTouch. How likely this would be wasn't described.

    Due to the way the WSJ anonymizes sources, it wasn't clear whether the contact was from Apple, hinting at possible reciprocation, the FTC, or another organization altogether. Apple CEO Steve Jobs' criticism of third-party tools makes it unlikely that his company has changed opinions in a short space of time.

    The new update as well as companionstories have also reinforced the one-time rumor and now have both the FTC and the Department of Justice potentially launching investigations. Procedures are reportedly at such an early stage that neither agency is certain which should lead or when one of them can commit to any investigation.

    Government pressure may be opposed by Apple, which believes that third-party development tools have often held back advancement of the Mac and could do the same for the iPhone. However, developers have criticized Apple for not only restricting the software they can use to write apps but for artificially inflating the cost of supporting more than one platform. Mobile advertiser Greystripe's CEO Michael Chang has explained that writing an app using Flash CS5 for the iPhone could cost $75,000 initially but would cost just a few thousand dollars more to port to Android. Without Adobe's tool, however, developers could be forced to rewrite from scratch and spend as much as they did before. The sheer expense could be considered anti-competitive as it would make writing for more than one platform cost-prohibitive for smaller studios.

    Adobe has tried to sidestep technical questions and has accused Apple of political maneuvering to attack Flash. It has said it plans to stop supporting the iPhone in cross-platform development after Flash CS5 and may be giving employees Nexus Ones to promote a personal switch to the more Flash-friendly Android platform.
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group

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