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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by jewel View Post
    What you got in your midst a tyrant. And I know what kind of damage these kinds of leaders do to a nation. I used to live in a country run by one. And I am used to a sub standard lifestyle, aka third world. I hope you are. You better wake up Americans! Before it's too late.
    Um, no. What we have is a President who understands and abides by the rule of law. Unlike the past holder of that office. No tyranny, thank you very much.

    We're now more than 1/4 into President Obama's first terms, and the guns haven't been stolen, the concentration camps haven't been opened, the terrorists haven't won, the Moslems or Socialists or Communists or Maoists or Black radicals haven't taken over, and the rich haven't been taxed into oblivion. In other words, President Obama has governed as a legitimately elected U.S. president should, and the country's economy is doing far better than it was when he took office.

    Go back, look at the scary stories opponents were telling about an Obama presidency before and after he was elected. It hasn't happened. How about calling them on their poor judgment, rather than continuing to bash the president in the face of actual reality to the contrary? {Jonathan}
    Prof. Jonathan I. Ezor
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  2.    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Congrats. You've finally reached a point where you disagree with yourself. Not surprising, of course. Either he believes in the philosophy that people can make too much money (which, by the way, is not what he said in terms of his own philosophy) or he doesn't. Saying that he doesn't care if liberals make too much money is patently absurd. Really, you are letting your hatred of the president interfere with your logic.
    Good spin Davidra! I can always count on you to ignore the fact and spin it back to my "hatred of the presdient." As for disagreeing with myself....thanks for telling me how I think....holy cow.....not only do you know everything, you also now know me better than myself! Impressive....very impressive
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  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Good spin Davidra! I can always count on you to ignore the fact and spin it back to my "hatred of the presdient." As for disagreeing with myself....thanks for telling me how I think....holy cow.....not only do you know everything, you also now know me better than myself! Impressive....very impressive
    Then by all means clarify. Does Obama feel that there should be limit on what people earn? Other than two throwaway lines, is there any evidence of that? Has anything he has done as president suggested that this is his underlying goal? Really. Instead of parsing every offhand, out of context utterance, how about looking at outcomes? What has he done to limit the amount of money earned by anyone (other than Wall Street execs...if you want to argue on their behalf, by all means feel free).
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    #44  
    I honestly do believe President Obama hold's the view that "you only need to earn so much". However, while that philosophy may certainly influence his general outlook on policies I very very very highly doubt we will ever see a "maximum wage". Its simply not acceptable to the over-whelming majority of Americans to have a government cap on income. What he said is rhetoric, nothing more, nothing less - just an easy way of framing his ideas of financial reform to the general (mindless?) public.

    I completely disagree with Obama's economic philosophy and disagree with most of the economic policies enacted since being elected, but lets at least recognize his words for what they were, political rhetoric, not the beginnings of some grand plan to have the government dictate every aspect of the economy.

    If anything Obama's comment is more a reflection that when he is off-teleprompter, while obviously not remotely as bad as our last President (Sovereign relationships with Indian tribes anyone) or our current Vice President ("stand-up Chuck")), he is not as impressively spoken and is prone to "political phrase gaffs" that can provide the opposition with catch phrases to use against him.
    Last edited by solarus; 05/03/2010 at 12:15 PM.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by solarus View Post
    I honestly do believe President Obama hold's the view that "you only need to earn so much". However, while that philosophy may certainly influence his general outlook on policies I very very very highly doubt we will ever see a "maximum wage". Its simply not acceptable to the over-whelming majority of Americans to have a government cap on income. What he said is rhetoric, nothing more, nothing less - just an easy way of framing his ideas of financial reform to the general (mindless?) public.


    If anything Obama's comment is more a reflection that when he is off-teleprompter, while obviously not remotely as bad as our last President (Sovereign relationships with Indian tribes anyone) or our current Vice President ("stand-up Chuck")), he is not as impressively spoken and is prone to "political phrase gaffs" that can provide the opposition with catch phrases to use against him.
    His next sentence made it clear that the American way involved making as much money as you can as long as your goods and services are valued. That's what sets the Wall Street bunch aside from anyone like Gates. They made money by betting against their customers, and society saw no benefits whatsover. I personally think they have made more than enough money. And if there is anyone who should have a maximum wage, it's those that are running failing companies into the ground and taking money from investors. Instead, they got massive raises and parachutes. No excuse for that, and I have no problem whatsoever favoring regulation for the bank/casinos that screwed everyone over but themselves.
  6.    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    His next sentence made it clear that the American way involved making as much money as you can as long as your goods and services are valued. That's what sets the Wall Street bunch aside from anyone like Gates. They made money by betting against their customers, and society saw no benefits whatsover. I personally think they have made more than enough money. And if there is anyone who should have a maximum wage, it's those that are running failing companies into the ground and taking money from investors. Instead, they got massive raises and parachutes. No excuse for that, and I have no problem whatsoever favoring regulation for the bank/casinos that screwed everyone over but themselves.
    I don't pretend to understand what Goldman Sachs was doing...at least entirely...but someone who is trusted by the left, and quoted often when he goes on and on about increasing his taxes, Warren Buffet, weighed in on the GS issue this weekend. I admit I don't agree with many of Buffet's political views, but when he discusses investments, I think anyone has to pay attention. He believes what GS did was not involving any fraud and he says they were doing exactly what they were supposed to be doing (they are market makers, go study that). So davidra, while I realize you have vast amounts of knowledge on many, many, many subjects....I think I'll lean towards Buffet's views on investments. So please tell me again how Warren Buffet is wrong?
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  7.    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Then by all means clarify. Does Obama feel that there should be limit on what people earn? Other than two throwaway lines, is there any evidence of that? Has anything he has done as president suggested that this is his underlying goal? Really. Instead of parsing every offhand, out of context utterance, how about looking at outcomes? What has he done to limit the amount of money earned by anyone (other than Wall Street execs...if you want to argue on their behalf, by all means feel free).
    First....let me say again....I don't "hate" Obama as daThomas and you like to say. I don't know the man so how can I "hate" him? Why is it that if someone disagrees with a liberal, then you either hate the person, or, if that liberal is a black person, you must be a racist? I guess you hated Bush as a person? Isn't that how your world works? If you disagree with someone you must hate them? Please explain why I hate Obama. Would I want to hang out with him? Doubtful....not sure we would have much in common. Although, I would like to smack his jump shot back into yesterday.

    I think if Obama was allowed off the teleprompters more often, we would hear more of his statements regarding wealth control. He clearly has issues with people making money, in my opinion....you disagree....I don't hate you for that.

    As for what has he done to "limit" what folks earn, it is more what he wants to do to limit what folks keep. I realize that Obama needs the Congress to enact the taxes that he wants and will need to transfer wealth around. My hope is that Congress will change enough that he won't be able to do this. But I have no doubt that if it was solely up to him, folks making over $200k/$250k would be keeping less of their money right now. I also have no doubt that Obama wants a VAT. Heck....I want a VAT if they would get rid of the current income tax system....but Obama will want both and that takes us one step closer to the European system that so many liberals seem enthralled with.
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

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  8. Micael's Avatar
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan I Ezor View Post
    Um, no. What we have is a President who understands and abides by the rule of law. Unlike the past holder of that office. No tyranny, thank you very much.
    How is the taking over banks, large automobile manufacturers, and control of the health care industry not tyrannical?

    And please provide references to the court cases related to the "past holder's" criminal indictment, trials, and subsequent punishment for breaking the law.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    How is the taking over banks, large automobile manufacturers, and control of the health care industry not tyrannical?

    And please provide references to the court cases related to the "past holder's" criminal indictment, trials, and subsequent punishment for breaking the law.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    How is the taking over banks, large automobile manufacturers, and control of the health care industry not tyrannical?
    Auto industry and banks, still privately owned. Received government loans and have payed or are paying them back.

    Health care industry still privately owned.

    So I guess the banks that have you home and auto loans are also "tyrannical?"

    And please provide references to the court cases related to the "past holder's" criminal indictment, trials, and subsequent punishment for breaking the law.
    Same exact number as the current, "tyrannical" administrations.
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

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  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Auto industry and banks, still privately owned. Received government loans and have payed or are paying them back.

    Health care industry still privately owned.

    So I guess the banks that have you home and auto loans are also "tyrannical?"



    Same exact number as the current, "tyrannical" administrations.
    GM is privately owned?
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by cjgem View Post
    GM is privately owned?
    Well, it is owned by it's share holders. It is NOT gov. owned.
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

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  13. Micael's Avatar
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    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Auto industry and banks, still privately owned. Received government loans and have payed or are paying them back.

    Health care industry still privately owned.

    So I guess the banks that have you home and auto loans are also "tyrannical?"

    Same exact number as the current, "tyrannical" administrations.
    Sounds like opinion to me. We're not just talking "loans". We're talking controls.

    And the Healthcare industry is hardly private. The changes that were enacted will be gradually implemented over the next decade. But then, you knew that.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Sounds like opinion to me. We're not just talking "loans". We're talking controls.

    And the Healthcare industry is hardly private. The changes that were enacted will be gradually implemented over the next decade. But then, you knew that.
    regulations to prevent this from happening again =/= "control" of an industry

    Again I ask. Does the banks that hold the loans for you home and car own/control you?
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
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  15. Micael's Avatar
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    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    Oh, that whole trickle down theory thing again? Didn't the recessions after Reagan and Bush II prove that theory wrong?
    I didn't say anything about trickle down economics. And I really don't understand the entitlement mentality at all.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  16. Micael's Avatar
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    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    Obama can't raise taxes either.
    Riiiight.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  17. Micael's Avatar
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Does the banks that hold the loans for you home and car own/control you?
    We're definitely not talking apples and apples here. Can the banks who've loaned me money come in to my house, go through my books, and mandate that I give my wife or my kids less allowance?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Well, it is owned by it's share holders. It is NOT gov. owned.
    Really? Check the largest single owner of GM stock (hint: U.S.A. is not the initials of an individual).
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Well, it is owned by it's share holders. It is NOT gov. owned.
    Considering the Treasury owns 60% of those shares, Id say .gov does indeed have the largest ownership stake in GM. The UAW, Canada and some Creditors own the rest. My old shares are worthless.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    So, Obama was just talking about Wall Street investors? Last time I checked - they're not the only wealthy people in this country. Some of them got weathly through hard work and a little luck. You know, the ones that provide the vast majority of jobs in this country.
    What jobs do wall street investors create?
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
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