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  1. #161  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    But you said the invasion was illegal. Explain.
    Explain the legal definitions of probable cause where one's citizenship status is concerned within this law that you've been touting ... and I'll think about it.
  2. #162  
    i support laws that fight illegal immigration, but not laws that support racial profiling... so i can't support this one...
  3. #163  
    Most of the people that I see opposing this law are against it because they think racial profiling will be used in its enforcement. What none of them seem to get is that racial profiling in and of itself is illegal! This AZ bill reinforces that on page 6 and page 10. Direct quote -

    "The attorney general or county attorney shall not investigate complaints that are based solely on race, color or national origin."
  4. Micael's Avatar
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    #164  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    Explain the legal definitions of probable cause where one's citizenship status is concerned within this law that you've been touting ... and I'll think about it.
    huh? the legal definition of probable cause and one's citizenship status are two different things. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

    You said the invasion of Iraq was illegal. I didn't. Back it up, or take it back.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  5. Micael's Avatar
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    #165  
    Quote Originally Posted by SilvrDrgn View Post
    Most of the people that I see opposing this law are against it because they think racial profiling will be used in its enforcement. What none of them seem to get is that racial profiling in and of itself is illegal! This AZ bill reinforces that on page 6 and page 10. Direct quote -

    "The attorney general or county attorney shall not investigate complaints that are based solely on race, color or national origin."
    In fact, they've indicated that they knew that this debate would be sparked, and they took extra measures to ensure that profiling would not be tolerated. Thanks for pointing that out.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. Micael's Avatar
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    #166  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    i support laws that fight illegal immigration, but not laws that support racial profiling... so i can't support this one...
    Have you read the bill? Because based on this statement, it doesn't appear that you have. Rather, it seems that you're basing your stance on political talking points and not fact.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  7. #167  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    huh? the legal definition of probable cause and one's citizenship status are two different things. One thing has nothing to do with the other.
    After a review of this law, have you not touted that probable cause was central to initiating a look into one's citizenship status, secondary to an initial offense?
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    #168  
    Oh great. A protest is scheduled outside Rigley Field (Chicago Cubs) today to protest the AZ law because the AZ Diamondbacks are playing there. Talk about displaced aggression. thorne
  9. Micael's Avatar
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    #169  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    After a review of this law, have you not touted that probable cause was central to initiating a look into one's citizenship status, secondary to an initial offense?
    No. I have not.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  10. #170  
    Quote Originally Posted by SilvrDrgn View Post
    Most of the people that I see opposing this law are against it because they think racial profiling will be used in its enforcement. What none of them seem to get is that racial profiling in and of itself is illegal! This AZ bill reinforces that on page 6 and page 10. Direct quote -

    "The attorney general or county attorney shall not investigate complaints that are based solely on race, color or national origin."
    No, we get it. However, this new law codifies racial profiling because it does not provide any legal definitions as to probable cause regarding a person's citizenship status. It's soft-racism without the dignity to call itself what it is.
  11. #171  
    people, read about the "Treaty of guadalupe hidalgo" and give some comments... Thanks!! Look in wikipedia or google!!
  12. Micael's Avatar
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    #172  
    Quote Originally Posted by thornev View Post
    Wow... these guys are right up there with the birthers... I like their tagline, though: "NEWS YOU WON'T FIND ON CNN" - wondering why?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  13. #173  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Wow... these guys are right up there with the birthers... I like their tagline, though: "NEWS YOU WON'T FIND ON CNN" - wondering why?
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Classic "shoot the messenger" fallacy.
    Indeed.
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    #174  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    Indeed.
    Not even close.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  15. #175  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    No, we get it. However, this new law codifies racial profiling because it does not provide any legal definitions as to probable cause regarding a person's citizenship status. It's soft-racism without the dignity to call itself what it is.
    No, you don't get it. Racial profiling is illegal in every sense with respect to this topic. Probable cause is derived and defined at the federal level all the way back to the fourth amendment of the Constitution. The AZ bill/law is an extension of the preexisting federal laws. It does not and cannot make the provisions of the Constitution and federal law null and void.
    Last edited by SilvrDrgn; 04/29/2010 at 12:16 PM.
  16. #176  
    Quote Originally Posted by SilvrDrgn View Post
    No, you don't get it. Racial profiling is illegal in every sense with respect to this topic. Probable cause is derived and defined at the federal level all the way back to the fourth amendment of the Constitution. The AZ bill/law is an extension of the preexisting federal laws. It does not and cannot make the provisions of the Constitution and federal law null and void.
    Funny thing is, even circuit courts demand evidence to justify probable cause. Without which, cops get laughed out of court and DAs know it.
  17. Micael's Avatar
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    #177  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    Funny thing is, even circuit courts demand evidence to justify probable cause. Without which, cops get laughed out of court and DAs know it.
    .... which is actually an argument for this law. We all know that instances of profiling will be screened for with a fine toothed comb.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  18. #178  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    Funny thing is, even circuit courts demand evidence to justify probable cause. Without which, cops get laughed out of court and DAs know it.
    EXACTLY! Without evidence, there is no conviction. Therefore, no fear of it either if one does not do anything wrong. You probably didn't even realize that you yourself helped prove the point that opposing the AZ bill/law is moot.
  19. #179  
    and what would probable cause be for thinking someone is illegal? A blonde, blue eyed person??
  20. #180  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    .... which is actually an argument for this law. We all know that instances of profiling will be screened for with a fine toothed comb.
    The point that you miss is that cases do not proceed to court without the ability to show the evidence of probable cause. Police forces know this which is why probable cause is defined.
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