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  1. #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Not surprisingly, some heavy hitter republicans are opposed to this specific bill: Lindsey Graham, Jeb Bush, and Marco Rubio.
    Obviously, they're entirely not Republican .... ummm, I mean Libertar ...... No, I mean .... Conservat ... No .... American enough.

    What are they calling themselves this week?
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by Willmays87 View Post
    you guys sound like idiots. We ar wasting soooo many tax payers money and time tryin to stop illegals. That's like tryin to stop air from entering our lungs or tryin to stop drugs. It's never EVER going to happen. So all of ur knowledge and "i love america" speeches are pointless. How about focusing our attention on sumthin more useful like education?? Or tryin to save detroit from it's craphole neighborhoods!!
    Have you been to the Southside of Tucson, Arizona? Have you seen the movie "Training Day"? There is literally a ghetto like that in South Tucson. Oh and its mainly occupied by ILLEGAL Mexicans.
  3. #143  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    Obviously, they're entirely not Republican .... ummm, I mean Libertar ...... No, I mean .... Conservat ... No .... American enough.

    What are they calling themselves this week?
    Good question. How about "politically expedient racists"?
  4. #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Good question. How about "politically expedient racists"?
    With this law going into effect, Goldwater must be doing an entire gymnastic routine in his grave these days. If only someone could emulate his values and integrity, those calling themselves conservative/libertarian/etc might actually gain some respect. Just maybe.
  5. #145  
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  6. #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by sweaner View Post
    Illegal = breaking the law = criminal
    Well I can tell you're new to this world. Ever been in jail? Certainly doesnt sound like it. Grow up there are more than just black and white.
  7. #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Given that people agree with your premise, that's not what the thread is about. It's about the specific law. Is this the best way to deal with the problems you raise?

    Not surprisingly, some heavy hitter republicans are opposed to this specific bill: Lindsey Graham, Jeb Bush, and Marco Rubio. I would be surprised if W favored it, in fact. Dump the law and let's deal with the problem, but a racist politically expedient law doesn't solve your problems at all.

    As Jon Stewart noted, even Tom Tancredo thought this law went too far....and "he's the one Mexican families use to get their children to eat their dinners".
    Is this the best way to deal with the issue, definitely not. And I certainly don't have a solution worthy of conversation. The AZ law is sadly a mediocre effort at best. Obviously something needs to be done, but this law will likely be repealed in court which amounts to a gigantic waste of tax dollars in unproductive legislative and judicial time and effort.

    I don't pay too much attention to heavy hitting reps or dems, in general they exist to be elected and not much else. I'm more of a common sense objectivist, and while I agree with you in principle, the law does draw international attention to a festering issue, and for that I am grateful. At this point a half-baked effort to curb illegal immigration might be better than no effort at all.
  8. thornev's Avatar
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    #148  
    Jay Leno - "If you're going to celebrate Cinco de Mayo in southern AZ, you might want to think that over." Ouch ! thorne
  9. Micael's Avatar
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    #149  
    Quote Originally Posted by usnis0922 View Post
    Have you been to the Southside of Tucson, Arizona? Have you seen the movie "Training Day"? There is literally a ghetto like that in South Tucson. Oh and its mainly occupied by ILLEGAL Mexicans.
    This is a huge point that everyone one here seems to be ignoring. Arizona wasn't sitting around thinking up ways to create racist legislation. They're trying to respond to a huge spike in crime in recent years by illegal aliens. Policemen and civilians have been killed, cars hijacked, robberies.... they are trying to address a very serious problem, and if anything Federal support has decreased. They've been too busy working out how to provide the illegals with healthcare once they get here.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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    #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric1987 View Post
    Well I can tell you're new to this world. Ever been in jail? Certainly doesnt sound like it. Grow up there are more than just black and white.
    No, I haven't been to jail. Should I? I really don't get your point. Of course, crimes are of varying degrees of severity, but a crime is still a crime.

    Has anyone against the bill given a good alternative? And not "just make them legal." That would not help, as we would still be paying for them.

    Maybe the libs can set up a fund to pay their way. I provide thousands of dollars of my services for free to illegals every year. (not voluntarily, I have no choice) How many of you do that?
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    #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by wjclint View Post
    I think you missed the point. In your hypothetical of loitering individuals outside a 7-11 at 6am what is the "reasonable suspicion [that] exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States"?
    Well, legal residents don't generally hang out outside a 7-11 in groups at 6am and then hop into a vehicle that no one hanging around drove after having a discussion with the driver. It's a very common scenario that happens every day and how contractors find day workers to exploit.
  12. #152  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    This is a huge point that everyone one here seems to be ignoring. Arizona wasn't sitting around thinking up ways to create racist legislation. They're trying to respond to a huge spike in crime in recent years by illegal aliens. Policemen and civilians have been killed, cars hijacked, robberies.... they are trying to address a very serious problem, and if anything Federal support has decreased. They've been too busy working out how to provide the illegals with healthcare once they get here.
    While the US was conducting its own illegal invasion into Iraq using the National Guard troops that had been properly assigned to the US/Mexico border, the president in 2004 was trumpeting amnesty for illegals.

    Fox News: Bush Amnesty Sparks Surge in Border Crossings

    Buz Mills knows this is all about political opportunism and nothing else.

    What point is being missed again?
  13. Micael's Avatar
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    #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    With this law going into effect, Goldwater must be doing an entire gymnastic routine in his grave these days. If only someone could emulate his values and integrity, those calling themselves conservative/libertarian/etc might actually gain some respect. Just maybe.
    This the same Goldwater that wanted to nuke Vietnam into a glass parking lot?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  14. Micael's Avatar
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    #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric1987 View Post
    Well I can tell you're new to this world. Ever been in jail? Certainly doesnt sound like it. Grow up there are more than just black and white.
    Not when it comes to breaking the law, Eric. You've either broken it, or you haven't. And yes, I've been in this world for a while.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  15. Micael's Avatar
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    #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    While the US was conducting its own illegal invasion into Iraq....
    Illegal to who? Saddam?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  16. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    This the same Goldwater that wanted to nuke Vietnam into a glass parking lot?
    Deflection. Where did I reference that policy was the issue?
  17. Micael's Avatar
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    #157  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    Deflection. Where did I reference that policy was the issue?
    Just asking if that was the same guy. He's a hero of yours?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  18. #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Illegal to who? Saddam?
    If AZ uses the argument that ours is a sovereign nation being illegally entered (to partially justify this law), a sovereign nation is a sovereign nation.
  19. Micael's Avatar
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    #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    If AZ uses the argument that ours is a sovereign nation being illegally entered (to partially justify this law), a sovereign nation is a sovereign nation.
    But you said the invasion was illegal. Explain.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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    #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Illegal to who? Saddam?
    Nope, illegal in the US and internationally:
    The Iraq War is Illegal
    http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle6917.htm
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