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  1. thornev's Avatar
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    #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by MP715 View Post
    First of all the Onion spouts nothing but drivel. Secondly We can thank the liberals for extending constitutional rights to illegals and enemy combatants. Just like we provided miranda and rights to that wacko Detroit underwear bomber and bringing KSM to stand trial in a civilian court in New York. What a slap in the face to New Yorkers eh? I'm sickened by the direction this country is going.
    When a crime is committed in the US, we have a court system that determines innocence and guilt. That's not just a "liberals"-only policy. You propose something different?

    I'm a NYer and I have no problem trying KSM in NYC.

    thorne
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    No, it's being white, right wing, and proud to be an American that makes you a racist.
    I am shocked and insulted by your stereo-typing, especially from a moderator.
  3. wjclint's Avatar
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    #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by thornev View Post
    I just want to say, as off thread-topic as it may be, that I believe anyone who lives in the US should learn and speak English when in public or communicating in business, etc. English is the language that has been taught since our forefathers took the US from its inhabitants and I see no reason to change that. I don't care if the population becomes > 50% of peoples whose 1st language is not English. thorne
    Are you saying that would just be your preference for your own personal comfort level or are you saying policy and law should be tailored to promote and/or even require English?

    If the later, I would have to say that is about as anti American of a concept as I can imagine. Our government gets to mandate how people talk, even if they don't want to talk in a certain language?

    This is a very simple concept - if you walk into a store, or any other establishment, and don't like the way the people speak, you have the right to take your business elsewhere.
    Phone History: VisorPhone --> Treo180 --> Treo650--> Treo700p--> PalmCentro --> HTCTouchDiamond (2weeks) --> PalmCentro --> Palm Pre
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by squeff View Post
    Make no mistake: the "founding fathers" were law-breakers.
    The founding fathers were right-wing extremists. Thank god for that.
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by rjwerth View Post
    Actually, yes. I believe it would be perfectly reasonable for a police officer to ask every individual hanging around the outside of a 7-11 at 6am...especially if that officer just saw a bunch of those people piling into the back of a truck that pulled up.
    Should that concept apply equally to every race and ethnicity?
  6. thornev's Avatar
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    #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by wjclint View Post
    Are you saying that would just be your preference for your own personal comfort level or are you saying policy and law should be tailored to promote and/or even require English?
    I am saying that English is the first language in the US. The reason we have it that way is so that we can communicate effectively within the US. I was educated that way as were millions before me and I like that we have a common language so I don't have to learn multiple languages. I would call my position one of efficiency and convenience. And it is my preference since it is my 1st language.

    As for going into a store and hearing a non-English language? I don't care if it's a personal conversation between people. There's nothing wrong with peoples' learning and speaking non-English languages in the US. In private schools they used to require a 2nd language. thorne
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by thornev View Post
    I am saying that English is the first language in the US.
    The Spanish settlers of St. Augustine, FL (with African slaves in tow) would strongly disagree with you.
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by thornev View Post
    When a crime is committed in the US, we have a court system that determines innocence and guilt. That's not just a "liberals"-only policy. You propose something different?

    I'm a NYer and I have no problem trying KSM in NYC.

    thorne
    When a crime is committed by a US citizen then yes absolutely we have a right to a speedy trial by a jury of 12 peers. That is out constitutional right as US citizens. KSM shouldn't even be allowed on US soil let alone enjoy the rights an privileges of US citizens. Let him rot in Guantanamo.
  9. Micael's Avatar
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    #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    The Spanish settlers of St. Augustine, FL (with African slaves in tow) would strongly disagree with you.
    What a strange thing to say. That has little to do with the US and it's language. That was the late 1500s... a bit before our time, don't you think?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  10. thornev's Avatar
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    #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    The Spanish settlers of St. Augustine, FL (with African slaves in tow) would strongly disagree with you.
    Touche ! I guess once the 13 original colonies were established, that all changed. thorne
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    What a strange thing to say. That has little to do with the US and it's language.
    Strange compared to what? Something more convenient?

    That was the late 1500s... a bit before our time, don't you think?
    Whose time?
  12. Micael's Avatar
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    #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    Strange compared to what? Something more convenient?

    Whose time?
    Dude, I don't even know what point you're trying to make. If you won't clarify, ok.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  13. thornev's Avatar
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    #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Dude, I don't even know what point you're trying to make. If you won't clarify, ok.
    He's trying to say that my claim that English is the nation's language wasn't always the case. But my point is that it certainly became the case once the 13 colonies got "staffed up." thorne
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    What a strange thing to say. That has little to do with the US and it's language. That was the late 1500s... a bit before our time, don't you think?
    And the bible is thousands of years older than that yet it is still to be considered the guide to morality...
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

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  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by MP715 View Post
    The founding fathers were right-wing extremists. Thank god for that.
    Yep. Only difference is they could actually keep slaves, instead of wanting to. Oh, and then there's that little thing about Jefferson and his feelings about the separation of church and state. Oh, and some people think Paine had a lot to do with the constitution, too, and he was also opposed to religion being involved in the government. Oh, and the "all men are created equal" business in the Declaration. Wonder if they included "illegal aliens"?
  16. wjclint's Avatar
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    #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by thornev View Post
    I am saying that English is the first language in the US. The reason we have it that way is so that we can communicate effectively within the US. I was educated that way as were millions before me and I like that we have a common language so I don't have to learn multiple languages. I would call my position one of efficiency and convenience. And it is my preference since it is my 1st language.

    As for going into a store and hearing a non-English language? I don't care if it's a personal conversation between people. There's nothing wrong with peoples' learning and speaking non-English languages in the US. In private schools they used to require a 2nd language. thorne
    Then I am confused. The governments, State and Federal, already operate in English. Our statutes and case law are all written in English. All our government forms are printed in English with some secondarily being written in another language as well. So you already have your way when it comes to the government.

    Then you say you don't care about personal conversation between people. So what is left? I assume you don't want the government telling private individuals, or private companies, or publicly traded/owned companies, what language they have to use to engage in private business? If HTC and Palm want to enter into a contract and write the whole thing in Chinese who are you to tell them otherwise?

    Maybe I'm missing the point. If the US government already operates in English 99.9% of the time and you agree the language of the private realm shouldn't be dictated by the government, what is your complaint or issue?
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  17. Micael's Avatar
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    #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Yep. Only difference is they could actually keep slaves, instead of wanting to. Oh, and then there's that little thing about Jefferson and his feelings about the separation of church and state. Oh, and some people think Paine had a lot to do with the constitution, too, and he was also opposed to religion being involved in the government. Oh, and the "all men are created equal" business in the Declaration. Wonder if they included "illegal aliens"?
    And all of this because the Chinese are thinking about loosening the restriction of having only one child?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by MP715 View Post
    First of all the Onion spouts nothing but drivel. Secondly We can thank the liberals for extending constitutional rights to illegals and enemy combatants. Just like we provided miranda and rights to that wacko Detroit underwear bomber and bringing KSM to stand trial in a civilian court in New York. What a slap in the face to New Yorkers eh? I'm sickened by the direction this country is going.
    You do realize, of course, that Miranda rights were also granted to the Shoe Bomber during the Bush administration, right? And that Zacarias Moussaoui, the 20th hijacker, was tried in a civilian court? I don't recall anyone complaining then.....strange.

    Constitutional rights to anyone in the borders of the US is a very long-standing legal precedent, and didn't start on Jan 20, 2009, despite Fox News.
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  19. thornev's Avatar
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    #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by wjclint View Post
    Maybe I'm missing the point. If the US government already operates in English 99.9% of the time and you agree the language of the private realm shouldn't be dictated by the government, what is your complaint or issue?
    My point is that I want to be able to communicate with the landscaper, with the sales guy at the local 7-11, with the bus driver, with the garage attendant, etc. I can't do that if they don't learn English. thorne
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by thornev View Post
    I am saying that English is the first language in the US. The reason we have it that way is so that we can communicate effectively within the US.
    However, it's not our official language, so your statement is really your personal preference of the way you'd like the US to be, and not any actual statement of fact or law.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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