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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by rjwerth View Post
    I'm so tired of these types of comments. MOST Americans are NOT ANTI-IMMIGRATION. MOST are ANTI-ILLEGAL immigration.
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    So, if you are indeed thought to be illegal, all you need to show is your Arizona DL and you are good to go. No need for "papers" if you are a citizen.
    The law also addresses "Willful Failure to Complete or Carry an Alien Registration Document". In other words, legal aliens have to show their papers.

    More importantly, perhaps: why would someone stop you and think you are illegal? If they can check without crime or cause, then it doesn't matter if it's a driver's license or other papers. In practice, impact of the law is that Mexicans need to have ID on them at all times, or risk being harassed. If they don't happen to drive or happen to have ID on them, they will end up being brought in until they can determine immigration status.

    And non-Mexicans won't have to live under the same rules. It's simply wrong.
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  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Again, Bujin.... language is not race. In fact, my race has nothing to do whatsoever with the language I speak. Additionally, it has absolutely nothing to do with illegal immigration.
    So that candidate didn't create that ad because of concerns about Mexicans? Can you take that stance with a straight face? I'm sorry, but that's a lot of mental gymnastics to justify the ignorance of that ad - and it's definitely related to the immigration argument, as it points to a culture of racial intolerance that is pervasive in AZ politics.
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  3. Micael's Avatar
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    #83  
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4. thornev's Avatar
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    #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    My problem with Kyle Mortensen's claims is that he claims the Constitution was framed in a religious context. One of the reasons the European people moved to the US was for religious freedom. I claim that same right and eschew any framing of any "founding-father" documents that suggest devotion to religion is required to be considered an American (or whatever term you want to use for legal citizens/nationals). thorne
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    #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    So that candidate didn't create that ad because of concerns about Mexicans? Can you take that stance with a straight face? I'm sorry, but that's a lot of mental gymnastics to justify the ignorance of that ad - and it's definitely related to the immigration argument, as it points to a culture of racial intolerance that is pervasive in AZ politics.
    You're missing my point. I didn't comment on the ad one way or the other. I'm just saying that it's definitely not about illegal aliens. It may be totally racist.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    So that candidate didn't create that ad because of concerns about Mexicans? Can you take that stance with a straight face? I'm sorry, but that's a lot of mental gymnastics to justify the ignorance of that ad - and it's definitely related to the immigration argument, as it points to a culture of racial intolerance that is pervasive in AZ politics.
    Which is exactly why when the current illegals do the right thing and become legal residents of the US by re-entering properly, menial labor employment will (re)open its loving arms to them. And no one complains ever again about their presence among us. Right?
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Ooooo. Thanks for the civics lesson. What about the citizens who get stopped and frisked because of the new law? Do they count, or are they excluded because they're brown-skinned?
    Hopefully they have their ID with them.
  8. #88  
    I just wondered if anyone here who said immigrants are "criminals" have ever had a speeding ticket or any kind of traffic ticket? If so, technically all those people (which I bet is just about everyone) is also technically a "criminal."
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    Which is exactly why when the current illegals do the right thing and become legal residents of the US by re-entering properly, menial labor employment will (re)open its loving arms to them. And no one complains ever again about their presence among us. Right?
    As long as they speak that good ol' American English....and carry their papers!
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    #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by thekarens View Post
    I just wondered if anyone here who said immigrants are "criminals" have ever had a speeding ticket or any kind of traffic ticket? If so, technically all those people (which I bet is just about everyone) is also technically a "criminal."
    Immigrants aren't criminals. Illegal aliens are commiting a crime. Call them what you want, they aren't supposed to be here.

    Legal immigrants are welcome.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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    #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    As long as they speak that good ol' American English....and carry their papers!
    Lol... you just can't let it go! The law says nothing about language. Read it please. I posted a link above.
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    #92  
    I just heard this quote on the radio: "This nation defends the borders of other countries better than it defends its own borders." Wow, how true. thorne
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Lol... you just can't let it go! The law says nothing about language. Read it please. I posted a link above.
    I realize that the law doesn't address language. I was responding to the comment that legal aliens will be welcomed....except that Arizona candidate's ad clearly shows that the issue transcends illegal aliens, and points to the fact that there is a basic issues with Mexicans (i.e. "you should speak American English in this state")


    Legal immigrants are welcome.
    ....as long as you have your papers with you. And don't try to take the driver's test in Spanish.
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    #94  
    I just want to say, as off thread-topic as it may be, that I believe anyone who lives in the US should learn and speak English when in public or communicating in business, etc. English is the language that has been taught since our forefathers took the US from its inhabitants and I see no reason to change that. I don't care if the population becomes > 50% of peoples whose 1st language is not English. thorne
    Last edited by thornev; 04/28/2010 at 12:59 PM.
  15. Micael's Avatar
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    #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I realize that the law doesn't address language. I was responding to the comment that legal aliens will be welcomed....except that Arizona candidate's ad clearly shows that the issue transcends illegal aliens, and points to the fact that there is a basic issues with Mexicans (i.e. "you should speak American English in this state")
    Alabama, Bujin. LOL. Please read your own link fer crissakes! I know they both start with the letter A, but come on!
    ....as long as you have your papers with you. And don't try to take the driver's test in Spanish.
    .... really, you need to just get back on the race thing, the language angle just isn't working out for you in this particular thread.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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    #96  
    Just to clarify, the law mandates that law enforcement officials determine the immigration status of every single person for which there is reasonable suspicion that they are an alien who is unlawfully present in the U.S. In other words if there is reasonable suspicion it is mandatory that the person be detained and their status determined.

    So, my question is lets assume a police officer is outside my house in Arizona. A group of men pulls up to my house, legally parks, five people get out after unbuckling their seat belts, mow my yard in less than 5 minutes all while speaking to each other in Spanish, get back in the truck, buckle their safety belts, and signal to pull back onto the road.

    Is the law enforcement officer mandated to pull them over and determine their immigration status? For those that say yes, are you really comfortable living in a police state?

    Can anyone come up with a hypothetical where a law enforcement official can have reasonable suspicion without racial profiling, 1) not near the border where there could easily be reasonable suspicion, and 2) not where some other crime is already being committed?
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  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    That's not actually true. The law has, time and time again, been defined that anyone in the US falls under the protection of the Constitution. That's why you give due process to criminals who are not citizens.
    First of all the Onion spouts nothing but drivel. Secondly We can thank the liberals for extending constitutional rights to illegals and enemy combatants. Just like we provided miranda and rights to that wacko Detroit underwear bomber and bringing KSM to stand trial in a civilian court in New York. What a slap in the face to New Yorkers eh? I'm sickened by the direction this country is going.
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    #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    The law also addresses "Willful Failure to Complete or Carry an Alien Registration Document". In other words, legal aliens have to show their papers.

    More importantly, perhaps: why would someone stop you and think you are illegal? If they can check without crime or cause, then it doesn't matter if it's a driver's license or other papers. In practice, impact of the law is that Mexicans need to have ID on them at all times, or risk being harassed. If they don't happen to drive or happen to have ID on them, they will end up being brought in until they can determine immigration status.

    And non-Mexicans won't have to live under the same rules. It's simply wrong.
    ANYONE who is seen doing something suspicious should be asked to show identification. Again, it has happened to me and it can happen to ANYONE.

    Is it OK for cops to request ID and question women hanging around on city street corners wearing slutty clothes? I think it is. Are the police targeting a certain type of individual in this circumstance? Yes, they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by thekarens View Post
    I just wondered if anyone here who said immigrants are "criminals" have ever had a speeding ticket or any kind of traffic ticket? If so, technically all those people (which I bet is just about everyone) is also technically a "criminal."
    Illegal immigrants are not just breaking the law once, they are doing it continuously by simply being in this country. I think people who continuously speed and drive aggressively and regularly disobey the laws ARE criminals.
  19. rjwerth's Avatar
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    #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by wjclint View Post
    So, my question is lets assume a police officer is outside my house in Arizona. A group of men pulls up to my house, legally parks, five people get out after unbuckling their seat belts, mow my yard in less than 5 minutes all while speaking to each other in Spanish, get back in the truck, buckle their safety belts, and signal to pull back onto the road.

    Is the law enforcement officer mandated to pull them over and determine their immigration status? For those that say yes, are you really comfortable living in a police state?

    Can anyone come up with a hypothetical where a law enforcement official can have reasonable suspicion without racial profiling, 1) not near the border where there could easily be reasonable suspicion, and 2) not where some other crime is already being committed?
    Actually, yes. I believe it would be perfectly reasonable for a police officer to ask every individual hanging around the outside of a 7-11 at 6am...especially if that officer just saw a bunch of those people piling into the back of a truck that pulled up.
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