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  1.    #1  
    GM Pays Back TARP Loans With...TARP Loans! - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine

    As with most things involving the current administration, the loan payback is a complete scam built on lies and sycophants who mindlessly repeat the machinations of their overlords with no independent thought of their own.
  2. moegumby's Avatar
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    Welcome to today's Drive By Media!
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  4. #4  
    lol drive by media in deed. you still have to ask yourself, if 8 million lost their jobs with the bailout. How Many would have lost their jobs without the bailout???
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    lol drive by media in deed. you still have to ask yourself, if 8 million lost their jobs with the bailout. How Many would have lost their jobs without the bailout???
    Actually that's part of the top-to-bottom restructuring that Obama spoke of in his address. Just as you said, imagine the wave made through the Great Recession economy if allowed to simply flatline.

    Mischaracterizing that address as a "lie" as has been done by this thread is both misinformed and misinforming.

    If impropriety is going to be alleged in the repayment of TARP funds with bailout funds previously provided, inpart or in whole, something tells me that GM's enormous legal counsel researched the letter of the law to sign off on this before repayment was even scheduled to begin.

    I'd enjoy watching the court interaction between those making internet allegations and those actually on the ground getting their knuckles bloodied making this restructure work.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    Actually that's part of the top-to-bottom restructuring that Obama spoke of in his address. Just as you said, imagine the wave made through the Great Recession economy if allowed to simply flatline.

    Mischaracterizing that address as a "lie" as has been done by this thread is both misinformed and misinforming.

    If impropriety is going to be alleged in the repayment of TARP funds with bailout funds previously provided, inpart or in whole, something tells me that GM's enormous legal counsel researched the letter of the law to sign off on this before repayment was even scheduled to begin.

    I'd enjoy watching the court interaction between those making internet allegations and those actually on the ground getting their knuckles bloodied making this restructure work.
    Bingo, lets face it, when the Great Depression happened there was zero bailouts... and people the economy did more then flat line.
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    lol drive by media in deed. you still have to ask yourself, if 8 million lost their jobs with the bailout. How Many would have lost their jobs without the bailout???
    And how many will lose their jobs when the government increases taxes to pay for those bailouts? How many more lost a large chunk of their life savings in the Bond restructuring that basically gave GM to the unions and government? How many potential jobs will be lost from those individuals not investing their own money in new companies?

    To think the GM fiasco had a positive effect on jobs is the epitome of willful ignorance.
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    Actually that's part of the top-to-bottom restructuring that Obama spoke of in his address. Just as you said, imagine the wave made through the Great Recession economy if allowed to simply flatline.

    Mischaracterizing that address as a "lie" as has been done by this thread is both misinformed and misinforming.

    If impropriety is going to be alleged in the repayment of TARP funds with bailout funds previously provided, inpart or in whole, something tells me that GM's enormous legal counsel researched the letter of the law to sign off on this before repayment was even scheduled to begin.

    I'd enjoy watching the court interaction between those making internet allegations and those actually on the ground getting their knuckles bloodied making this restructure work.
    This is often called the Superhero theory of government. The great man elected for his oratory skills, race, and views on gay marriage rides in on his stallion and fixes everything.

    Unfortunately this fantasy is a complete farce. If we think markets can't do things well, how can we even hope that politicians can? These people's jobs have no dependence or the efficacy of their policies. They sell a trumped up shell game and tools like you don your cheer leading uniforms and repeat their nonsense.
  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    Bingo, lets face it, when the Great Depression happened there was zero bailouts... and people the economy did more then flat line.
    Actually this is a complete lie. Spending tripled under Hoover. Of course FDR basically copied his policies and we were left with a 10 year period of price controls, protectionism, and starvation, all caused by politicians who thought they could dream up schemes to fix it.
  10. thornev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS View Post
    This is often called the Superhero theory of government. The great man elected for his oratory skills, race, and views on gay marriage rides in on his stallion and fixes everything.
    Very short sighted. Obama admitted from day 1 he wasn't going to be able to fix everything himself. If you've paid attention to presidential politics at all you'd know that no president is ever able to realize all his goals because of a Congress that always balances the idealism spoken of during campaigns.

    Since you're so critical, and that's all you are in your posts, let's hear YOUR views on how to fix the complex issues we find ourselves in. thorne
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS View Post
    And how many will lose their jobs when the government increases taxes to pay for those bailouts?
    You do know that your taxes went down, right?

    To think the GM fiasco had a positive effect on jobs is the epitome of willful ignorance.
    To think that the loss of the US auto industry, and all of the associated jobs in sales, repair, etc. (to the tune of 1-2 million jobs) wouldn't have devastated our economy, is actually "the epitome of willful ignorance".

    Do you also realize that TARP will end up costing the taxpayers FAR less than initially predicted, and may even break even? http://www.slate.com/id/2226517/

    People can disagree about the administration's decisions, but this whole attitude that they're "destroying our American way of life", "creating a socialist state", etc., is just silliness.
    Last edited by Bujin; 04/25/2010 at 10:35 AM.
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  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by thornev View Post
    Very short sighted. Obama admitted from day 1 he wasn't going to be able to fix everything himself. If you've paid attention to presidential politics at all you'd know that no president is ever able to realize all his goals because of a Congress that always balances the idealism spoken of during campaigns.

    Since you're so critical, and that's all you are in your posts, let's hear YOUR views on how to fix the complex issues we find ourselves in. thorne
    Let me get this straight. Your basically think "we must do something, this is something, we must do this."

    Do you not see any flaws in that mindset?

    In this case doing nothing as we did in 1920 is the optimal choice. Let those who made bad decisions lose their jobs, move on, and reintegrate to a more sustainable economy. Delaying that process only extends the effects of the recession.
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    You do know that your taxes went down, right?



    To think that the loss of the US auto industry, and all of the associated jobs in sales, repair, etc. (to the tune of 1-2 million jobs) wouldn't have devastated our economy, is actually "the epitome of willful ignorance".
    But spending quadrupled. Do you not see a problem with that? You can't lower taxes and increase spending forever.

    And I am very leery of any claims that TARP will come out "even." First of all, I don't know how getting 1% loans is really "even" or fair to the rest of us, but I want to see the numbers before I claim it is a wild success as people like you are so willing to do with the GM "repayment."

    I never said anything about destroying our American way of life. I think those are largely useless terms. I know there a basic tenets of fairness that most of the declaration of independence and the constitution were written on. One of those is that people own themselves. We are not employees of the state from birth. The state is here to serve us, but when serving some turns into enslaving others there is a problem.
    Last edited by NathanS; 04/25/2010 at 10:40 AM.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS View Post
    This is often called the Superhero theory of government. The great man elected for his oratory skills, race, and views on gay marriage rides in on his stallion and fixes everything.

    Unfortunately this fantasy is a complete farce. If we think markets can't do things well, how can we even hope that politicians can? These people's jobs have no dependence or the efficacy of their policies. They sell a trumped up shell game and tools like you don your cheer leading uniforms and repeat their nonsense.
    Yours is to be considered a dignified, balanced argument against the economics of bailout? That I could respect and would welcome, but this sounds much more like hyperbolic, partisan tripe to me.

    Again, I'd like to watch the GM legal team shred the internet pundits in a court of law on this contractual agreement, just for the sheer entertainment factor.
  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    Yours is to be considered a dignified, balanced argument against the economics of bailout? That I could respect and would welcome, but this sounds much more like hyperbolic, partisan tripe to me.

    Again, I'd like to watch the GM legal team shred the internet pundits in a court of law on this contractual agreement, just for the sheer entertainment factor.
    Umm, the CEO has already been in front of congress and testified that is was a joke. What contractual agreement are you talking about?
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS View Post
    The state is here to serve us, but when serving some turns into enslaving others there is a problem.
    One can argue the same about the masses being "enslaved" by big business. I recently attended a workshop by a cultural anthropologist who compared our current system not to socialism, but rather to feudalism, in which the relatively uneducated masses have become convinced by a small minority that it's in society's best interest to have the higher caste profit from the efforts of the worker caste, in hopes that the prosperity somehow trickles down to them.

    It amazes me how many people have become conned into thinking that protecting the top 1% somehow will benefit them, in contrast to any data that suggest otherwise. And it's all being done by the ever-reliable fear card: fear of socialism (though most don't have a clue what that really means), fear of "losing our country", fear of Mexicans / Muslims / anyone different, etc.
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  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    but this sounds much more like hyperbolic, partisan tripe to me.
    And you aren't partisan? Please....everything you say comes directly from the democrat talking points...which usually means simply saying either "it's Bush's fault" or "look what Obama inherited". I am waiting for the day, if it every comes, when Obama realizes he can't blame Bush for everything. But please, stop saying everyone else is being partisan and include you in that group as well. Oh...and yes....I admit....I don't like Obama and the democrats agenda.....whoop-t-dodo....at least until Obama gets his way, we can still complain in this country and I intend to do that when I disagree with socialistic ideas.

    Hey....by the way....are you related to Attorney General McMaster here in SC who is involved in the suit against the healthcare bill?
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  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS View Post
    Umm, the CEO has already been in front of congress and testified that is was a joke. What contractual agreement are you talking about?
    Seriously?
  19. thornev's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS View Post
    Let me get this straight. Your basically think "we must do something, this is something, we must do this."

    Do you not see any flaws in that mindset?

    In this case doing nothing as we did in 1920 is the optimal choice. Let those who made bad decisions lose their jobs, move on, and reintegrate to a more sustainable economy. Delaying that process only extends the effects of the recession.
    Yes, something should be done. And to me that is putting regulation back in place so that the greedy corporations don't cause us to lose another 8 million jobs. When corporations put increasing profits (note I did not say revenue) before the damage that their actions can cause to the economy, it's time to put controls in place.

    If you think losing 8 million jobs was bad, how many jobs do you think would be lost without keeping all those companies afloat? I do not doubt that doing nothing would have been far worse. And you think more 401ks and pensions down the drain is justified just because the failing companies deserve to be punished? There are better ways to punish those who would make money at the Middle Class' expense than allowing them to fail. thorne
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    And you aren't partisan? Please....everything you say comes directly from the democrat talking points...which usually means simply saying either "it's Bush's fault" or "look what Obama inherited". I am waiting for the day, if it every comes, when Obama realizes he can't blame Bush for everything. But please, stop saying everyone else is being partisan and include you in that group as well. Oh...and yes....I admit....I don't like Obama and the democrats agenda.....whoop-t-dodo....at least until Obama gets his way, we can still complain in this country and I intend to do that when I disagree with socialistic ideas.
    If this is as sobering a subject as some would allege, let them make the case without the partisan hysterics. You'd prefer otherwise when the shoe is on the other foot? Certainly doesn't encourage an open dialog otherwise, does it? "Drive-by media" takes its clue from those who perpetuate the practice on both sides of the spectrum as it is they who pay the bills.
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