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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by thornev View Post
    Yes, something should be done. And to me that is putting regulation back in place so that the greedy corporations don't cause us to lose another 8 million jobs. When corporations put increasing profits (note I did not say revenue) before the damage that their actions can cause to the economy, it's time to put controls in place.

    If you think losing 8 million jobs was bad, how many jobs do you think would be lost without keeping all those companies afloat? I do not doubt that doing nothing would have been far worse. And you think more 401ks and pensions down the drain is justified just because the failing companies deserve to be punished? There are better ways to punish those who would make money at the Middle Class' expense than allowing them to fail. thorne
    The greedy corporations? Really?

    The same corporations through their pursuit of profit have invented, built, and made affordable literally everything you touched today?

    Seriously people, get a grip on reality. Let us take a simple example. What do you think a government designed smart phone would look like? Anything like a palm?

    And please stop with the made up 8 million jobs crap. GM makes most(>90%) of their cars in Mexico. Parts suppliers in the US would start selling unused inventory to expanded operations from other companies. Executives would get the boot, as the deserve.
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    One can argue the same about the masses being "enslaved" by big business. I recently attended a workshop by a cultural anthropologist who compared our current system not to socialism, but rather to feudalism, in which the relatively uneducated masses have become convinced by a small minority that it's in society's best interest to have the higher caste profit from the efforts of the worker caste, in hopes that the prosperity somehow trickles down to them.

    It amazes me how many people have become conned into thinking that protecting the top 1% somehow will benefit them, in contrast to any data that suggest otherwise. And it's all being done by the ever-reliable fear card: fear of socialism (though most don't have a clue what that really means), fear of "losing our country", fear of Mexicans / Muslims / anyone different, etc.
    The difference is you have a choice. I choose whether or not to work for a company or buy a product from a company. The state is simply a territorial monopoly on the use of force. Monopolies don't exist without the state. The top 1% have little grip on their standing without the state.

    It amazes me how you think you can encourage growth and innovation by outlawing it.
  3. #23  
    Pst, just don't tell Ford.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by thornev View Post
    Yes, something should be done. And to me that is putting regulation back in place so that the greedy corporations don't cause us to lose another 8 million jobs. When corporations put increasing profits (note I did not say revenue) before the damage that their actions can cause to the economy, it's time to put controls in place.

    If you think losing 8 million jobs was bad, how many jobs do you think would be lost without keeping all those companies afloat? I do not doubt that doing nothing would have been far worse. And you think more 401ks and pensions down the drain is justified just because the failing companies deserve to be punished? There are better ways to punish those who would make money at the Middle Class' expense than allowing them to fail. thorne
    You are wasting your time. These people don't seem to comprehend we're talking about the steel industry, the glass industry, rubber, high technology....all these jobs would be at risk when US automakers fail. But they are perfectly willing to let them go jobless. And if that had happened, given the republican playbook, they would be hammering Obama for NOT doing something....and you folks know that is the truth. There is nothing he can do right.
  5. #25  
    Paying back loaned money with borrowed money tells me that that GM is showing good will towards their restructuring everts. The loan was for operational costs while the company reduced the size of workers, cut the pay of all employes by 10-20 percent, renegotiated contractual obligations with the UAW, break ties with overpopulated dealers in the same markets, lower the inventory of units going to be made in 2011, ramp up R&D to make more fuel efficient vehicles, stream line their brands such as selling off Sabb, Hummer and Saturn while fazing out Pontiac, competing with foreign manufactures on safety, design and total customer satisfaction which have proven to be a large success this year according to national review publications.

    The reason I mention all of the above is to demonstrate what GM is using your taxpayer money for. All the efforts above are to develop a long term plan for profitability which will benefit us all. GM also gave back loan money they did not need. So before everyone starts to ***** on what at "scam" this is, look at the broad picture. I don't see any other banks or companies showing good faith that were covered under TARP.

    peace.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by ariker01 View Post
    Paying back loaned money with borrowed money tells me that that GM is showing good will towards their restructuring everts. The loan was for operational costs while the company reduced the size of workers, cut the pay of all employes by 10-20 percent, renegotiated contractual obligations with the UAW, break ties with overpopulated dealers in the same markets, lower the inventory of units going to be made in 2011, ramp up R&D to make more fuel efficient vehicles, stream line their brands such as selling off Sabb, Hummer and Saturn while fazing out Pontiac, competing with foreign manufactures on safety, design and total customer satisfaction which have proven to be a large success this year according to national review publications.

    The reason I mention all of the above is to demonstrate what GM is using your taxpayer money for. All the efforts above are to develop a long term plan for profitability which will benefit us all. GM also gave back loan money they did not need. So before everyone starts to ***** on what at "scam" this is, look at the broad picture. I don't see any other banks or companies showing good faith that were covered under TARP.

    peace.
    Please. You are providing actual thought processes and you clearly know what you're talking about. That can never compete with partisan T-bagger throwaway lines...like
    As with most things involving the current administration, the loan payback is a complete scam built on lies and sycophants who mindlessly repeat the machinations of their overlords with no independent thought of their own.
    Last edited by davidra; 04/25/2010 at 12:44 PM.
  7.    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    You are wasting your time. These people don't seem to comprehend we're talking about the steel industry, the glass industry, rubber, high technology....all these jobs would be at risk when US automakers fail. But they are perfectly willing to let them go jobless. And if that had happened, given the republican playbook, they would be hammering Obama for NOT doing something....and you folks know that is the truth. There is nothing he can do right.
    Do you work in a glass factory? Do you aspire for your kids to work in one? The fact that most Americans don't work in factories is a good thing. Your comment on high technology is completely made up.
  8.    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by ariker01 View Post
    Paying back loaned money with borrowed money tells me that that GM is showing good will towards their restructuring everts. The loan was for operational costs while the company reduced the size of workers, cut the pay of all employes by 10-20 percent, renegotiated contractual obligations with the UAW, break ties with overpopulated dealers in the same markets, lower the inventory of units going to be made in 2011, ramp up R&D to make more fuel efficient vehicles, stream line their brands such as selling off Sabb, Hummer and Saturn while fazing out Pontiac, competing with foreign manufactures on safety, design and total customer satisfaction which have proven to be a large success this year according to national review publications.

    The reason I mention all of the above is to demonstrate what GM is using your taxpayer money for. All the efforts above are to develop a long term plan for profitability which will benefit us all. GM also gave back loan money they did not need. So before everyone starts to ***** on what at "scam" this is, look at the broad picture. I don't see any other banks or companies showing good faith that were covered under TARP.

    peace.


    Or make multi-million dollar commercials touting made up accounting tricks. Yea, great job at making cars. I wonder how long the factory had to be shut down to produce this hack job.

    You do know that Obama fired the man who started the Volt program?
    Last edited by NathanS; 04/25/2010 at 12:37 PM.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS View Post
    Or make multi-million dollar commercials touting made up accounting tricks. Yea, great job at making cars. I wonder how long the factory had to be shut down to produce this hack job.
    You have evidence of GM's advertising budget? Please share. Got anything more than generic hate?
  10.    #30  
    Great video.

  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS View Post
    Do you work in a glass factory? Do you aspire for your kids to work in one? The fact that most Americans don't work in factories is a good thing. Your comment on high technology is completely made up.

    Amazingly cavalier attitude, and that's being kind. We don't want actual jobs for our unemployed, because they're in factories. You'd rather buy everything from Taiwan, is that what you're saying? Or would you rather have those "non-American" illegals make glass because it is beneath you and your family? And I'm not sure what you drive, but if you don't think that autos have more technology than a PC, you need to rethink things. Actually, you need to rethink a lot.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS View Post


    Or make multi-million dollar commercials touting made up accounting tricks. Yea, great job at making cars. I wonder how long the factory had to be shut down to produce this hack job.

    You do know that Obama fired the man who started the Volt program?

    Very thoughtful response to that post. Do you have ANYTHING other than throwaway responses and Youtube videos? I am very glad to hear you're strongly in favor of alternative auto energy sources...and surprised as well.
  13.    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Amazingly cavalier attitude, and that's being kind. We don't want actual jobs for our unemployed, because they're in factories. You'd rather buy everything from Taiwan, is that what you're saying? Or would you rather have those "non-American" illegals make glass because it is beneath you and your family? And I'm not sure what you drive, but if you don't think that autos have more technology than a PC, you need to rethink things. Actually, you need to rethink a lot.
    Interesting how my post are "throwaway" yet your endless platitudes are some kind of gift from god.

    YOU ALREADY BUY CARS FROM MEXICO! GM MAKES CARS IN MEXICO YOU TWIT!

    I think my phone has more technology than most GM car's produced today. Having just built an entire car from scratch I can say it's complicated but doable. Building a cell phone is impossible for an individual without the technological developments enabled by our freedom from toiling in factories 14 hours a day.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS View Post
    You do know that Obama fired the man who started the Volt program?
    Right up there with Birthers and those who believe the name 'Barack Obama' has been proven by the Christian bible to equate to "anti-Christ".
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    You have evidence of GM's advertising budget? Please share. Got anything more than generic hate?
    The fact is we gave them money, they shuffled some money from one account to another, and they made a commercial touting paying the loan off 5 years early when they did no such thing.

    And then people go on the internet and make it sound like the achieved some herculean feat.
    Last edited by pogeypre; 04/25/2010 at 02:13 PM.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS View Post
    Interesting how my post are "throwaway" yet your endless platitudes are some kind of gift from god.

    YOU ALREADY BUY CARS FROM MEXICO! GM MAKES CARS IN MEXICO YOU TWIT!

    I think my phone has more technology than most GM car's produced today. Having just built an entire car from scratch I can say it's complicated but doable. Building a cell phone is impossible for an individual without the technological developments enabled by our freedom from toiling in factories 14 hours a day.
    Yes, I agree with you. Your posts are throwaway...

    My GM car automatically turns on the wipers when it rains. It has Bluetooth, XM radio, the seats both heat and cool your rear end (you might try that), it has a hard drive, OnStar, computer-based stability settings, individual temperature controls for each rider in the front or back, can be started from good distance away, automatically adjusts the volume of any audio based on the level of road noise, and I'm sure there are lots of things I'm not mentioning because it's a new car and I don't know everything there is to know about it yet. Think there are many different industries involved in making those components for GM? How many of those are your home-made car?
    And please....enlighten us. Where did you get your windshield from? Where would you LIKE our factory jobs to go? Talk about an elitist...determining that an entire industry is beneath you? GMAFB.
  17.    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    Right up there with Birthers and those who believe the name 'Barack Obama' has been proven by the Christian bible to equate to "anti-Christ".
    Umm, Obama did indeed fire Wagoner...

    I guess that makes you a holocaust denier... By your logic
  18.    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Yes, I agree with you. Your posts are throwaway...

    My GM car automatically turns on the wipers when it rains. It has Bluetooth, XM radio, the seats both heat and cool your rear end (you might try that), it has a hard drive, OnStar, computer-based stability settings, individual temperature controls for each rider in the front or back, can be started from good distance away, automatically adjusts the volume of any audio based on the level of road noise, and I'm sure there are lots of things I'm not mentioning because it's a new car and I don't know everything there is to know about it yet. Think there are many different industries involved in making those components for GM? How many of those are your home-made car?
    And please....enlighten us. Where did you get your windshield from? Where would you LIKE our factory jobs to go? Talk about an elitist...determining that an entire industry is beneath you? GMAFB.
    So all those circuit boards that are used would have never been invented without the magic of the GM car? Please remember what point you are trying to make. High technology was integrated into cars when it became cheap. It was not invented to make your car seats heat up upon voice command.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS View Post
    Umm, Obama did indeed fire Wagoner...
    As part of a comprehensive contract to reorganize, Wagoner had to exit. That was the agreement for restructuring.

    But, don't that fact get in the way of making it partisan in some generic way. Carry on.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS View Post
    So all those circuit boards that are used would have never been invented without the magic of the GM car? Please remember what point you are trying to make. High technology was integrated into cars when it became cheap. It was not invented to make your car seats heat up upon voice command.
    If you're going to argue a point, you should at least try and remember what it was. I stated cars have more technology than a PC. Your response has nothing to do with what I said. And with regard to your last post, does it make a difference when it became cheap? That high technology is in autos right now, and companies that make it need that business....so they can do R&D and develop more inexpensive technology. Really, your arguments are so off-point that it's laughable.
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