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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    No, Intel is NOT a better option. It uses more power. Aka, the battery would drain faster.

    Since all of the smartphone platforms, and MANY consumer electronics devices use ARM, it'd be a major blow all across the board.
    Intel understands the power consumption issue of their CPUs in smartphones, and they are aggressivelly attempting to address it. They are pursuing this for their own selfish reasons -- they are scared of ARM taking more and more business from them.

    This BTW, in no way invalidates our collective concerns regarding Apple possibly controlling ARM
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  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by akitayo View Post
    What do you think of NVIDIA Tegra?
    The Tegra and Tegra 2 use an ARM CPU with a custom NVidia GPU.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Intel understands the power consumption issue of their CPUs in smartphones, and they are aggressivelly attempting to address it. They are pursuing this for their own selfish reasons -- they are scared of ARM taking more and more business from them.

    This BTW, in no way invalidates our collective concerns regarding Apple possibly controlling ARM
    I know they're trying to address it, but at this point it just seems that ARM will always be a step ahead. When Intel comes out with a CPU with less power usage, ARM will most likely have a new design as well.
  4.    #24  
    It seems that ARM is everything in this world , I truly hope these news are just rumors
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    I know they're trying to address it, but at this point it just seems that ARM will always be a step ahead. When Intel comes out with a CPU with less power usage, ARM will most likely have a new design as well.


    yes ARM is not a static target -- they will likely have an improved chipset design by when intel produces their anticipated smartphone chipset.

    I'd expect that intel's will be at least decent, and maybe comparable or somewhat better than ARM's current stuff.

    As long as its decent -- and sold cheap enough -- intel can find buyers -- if only for downmarket products.

    The core problem for Intel is that their x86 derived chipset might not easily be made compatible with ARM based (RISC) OSes. It might require wasted cycles and power so as to be "virtually" compatible -- which would put them at a further disadvantage vis a vis ARM

    (warning: I don't know anything about this stuff !!)
    Last edited by BARYE; 04/23/2010 at 12:26 PM.
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  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    The Tegra and Tegra 2 use an ARM CPU with a custom NVidia GPU.
    Asus and Dell are reported to be releasing pads using the Tegras

    Ultimately its software applications, OS environment/interface, and hardware utility and responsiveness that will decide if these gizmos can compete w/El Jobso's pad.

    Asus to launch Eee Pad at Computex

    A report out of Taiwan has Asustek Chairman Jerry Shen announcing a new tablet that the company will make called the Eee Pad, which will be an iPad competitor, according to Digitimes. The device will run Android, have an Nvidia Tegra processor, and sell for between $479 and $510 beginning sometime in July. The Eee Pad will reportedly be introduced at Computex, the yearly computer exhibition to be held in Taiwan in early June...

    Android-based tablets aimed at providing competition for Apple's iPad have been talked about a lot, but few have actually begun shipping. Archos released one last year, and on Thursday Engadget got its hands on some internal Dell documents that show a 7-inch Android and Tegra-based tablet the company is apparently planning to release in November.
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  7. #27  
    for those curious if Intel has anything upcoming that might be competitive with ARM, Tom's Hardware has a detailed look at Moorestown -- Intel's new Atom based chip design, intended for ultra mobile applications like smart phones.

    The gist is that this is a VERY fast processor -- and very efficient (meaning potentially terrific battery life). Its especially good handling HD video etc.

    There's little doubt that it is better than ARM's current Cortex A8's performance. (though ARM's announced Cortex A9 will be likely be better than the Moorestown design.)

    An important obstacle that Intel has to overcome in getting wide usage, is that its not yet running Android code except under unnatural laboratory conditions.

    Since its likely never to be used on the iPhone, the Web OS is too small a market to yet matter, and Windows 7 (phone) is likely to be a 3rd tier environment -- Intel clearly should be putting more emphasis on Android compatibility.

    This probably will likely require them to at least in part, emulate an ARM.

    Intel is increasingly feeling pressure from ARM -- CNET today has an article about how is developing its ultra lower power chips for use in servers.

    One of the major fixations for data centers -- those vast jungles of computers stacked like cord wood -- is the power used, the heat generated, and then the electrical burden that flows from needing to keep these places cool.

    The ARMs almost perfectly address these concerns -- and for many server uses, the ARMs might well be suitable alternative to X86 chips.

    ARM experiments with server chip design
    by David Meyer CNET

    ARM is running one of its Web sites on a cluster of ARM-based chips, part of a handful of experiments to test out the viability of using its chip architecture in servers...

    "We've been doing some testing over the past year or so," Drew said on Tuesday. "People talk to us about energy efficiency in a number of different areas, from microcontrollers all the way through to servers. We've been talking to a few semiconductor partners and a number of [manufacturers] in the last couple of years on this."
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  8. #28  
    rumors are again rumbling regarding Apple planning to kidnap ARM ...


    ARM shares soar on Apple bid rumors

    By David Goldman, CNN staff writer
    June 10, 2010


    NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Shares of ARM Holdings rose sharply Thursday on renewed speculation that Apple would bid for the mobile phone chip designer, according to a news report.

    ARM's (ARMH) stock rose more than 9% Thursday in early trading on the Nasdaq. Overseas, the stock rose 7%, but soared as much as 30.7% on the London Stock Exchange before losing much of those gains. A Reuters report said traders were buying up the stock on market rumors of possible takeover interest from Apple.

    A little-known British company, ARM has long been rumored to be a takeover target for Apple after ARM-designed chips landed in the iPhone and iPad. The so-called "A4" chips are manufactured by Apple, but ARM helped to draw up the blueprint for the processor and collects a licensing fee for each mobile device that Apple sells.

    Given Apple's reliance on ARM's technology, many analysts and investors have speculated that an outright purchase of the company would make sense for Apple to ward off the risk of ARM going to a competitor. But since almost all of Apple's competitors are reliant on ARM as well -- including deep-pocketed Google (GOOG, Fortune 500) -- a bidding war would likely ensue should Apple make an offer...
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  9. #29  
    I couldn't see that happening... Anti-Trust DEFCON would fly up to level 1.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by DrHeathenScum View Post
    I couldn't see that happening... Anti-Trust DEFCON would fly up to level 1.
    Jobs is a a power obsessed control freak -- he wants to own every part of every element of his ecosystem.

    itunes, Apps, iAds, and now the design infrastructure of the A4 chips that he's using in all his iPads and iPhones.

    I doubt the prospect of an anti-trust vetting will deter him much -- Apple is the new M$, only more comprehensively powerful.

    (Steve is a bigger megalomaniac than even BARYE)
    Last edited by BARYE; 06/23/2010 at 04:39 AM.
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    (Steve is a bigger megalomaniac than even BARYE)
    If Barye saw an opportunity to take control of the universe, he'd not take it? (or has he secretly already done so?)
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    If Barye saw an opportunity to take control of the universe, he'd not take it? (or has he secretly already done so?)

    following BARYE’s glorious inevitable imperial restoration, any pitiable human rude enough to write “Barye” will be “persuaded” to bite off their opposable thumb and use the bloody digit to write BARYE with the appropriate level of respect and awe it deserves -- in all caps !!! ...


    (I kid, I kid ...)
    Last edited by BARYE; 06/11/2010 at 05:38 AM.
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  13. #33  
    who is barye ? Lol
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    yes ARM is not a static target -- they will likely have an improved chipset design by when intel produces their anticipated smartphone chipset.

    I'd expect that intel's will be at least decent, and maybe comparable or somewhat better than ARM's current stuff.

    As long as its decent -- and sold cheap enough -- intel can find buyers -- if only for downmarket products.

    The core problem for Intel is that their x86 derived chipset might not easily be made compatible with ARM based (RISC) OSes. It might require wasted cycles and power so as to be "virtually" compatible -- which would put them at a further disadvantage vis a vis ARM

    (warning: I don't know anything about this stuff !!)
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    for those curious if Intel has anything upcoming that might be competitive with ARM, Tom's Hardware has a detailed look at Moorestown -- Intel's new Atom based chip design, intended for ultra mobile applications like smart phones.

    The gist is that this is a VERY fast processor -- and very efficient (meaning potentially terrific battery life). Its especially good handling HD video etc.

    There's little doubt that it is better than ARM's current Cortex A8's performance. (though ARM's announced Cortex A9 will be likely be better than the Moorestown design.)

    An important obstacle that Intel has to overcome in getting wide usage, is that its not yet running Android code except under unnatural laboratory conditions.

    Since its likely never to be used on the iPhone, the Web OS is too small a market to yet matter, and Windows 7 (phone) is likely to be a 3rd tier environment -- Intel clearly should be putting more emphasis on Android compatibility.

    This probably will likely require them to at least in part, emulate an ARM.

    Intel is increasingly feeling pressure from ARM -- CNET today has an article about how ARM is developing its ultra lower power chips for use in servers.

    One of the major fixations for data centers -- those vast jungles of computers stacked like cord wood -- is the power used, the heat generated, and then the electrical burden that flows from needing to keep these places cool.

    The ARMs almost perfectly address these concerns -- and for many server uses, the ARMs might well be suitable alternative to X86 chips.


    ARM experiments with server chip design
    by David Meyer CNET

    ARM is running one of its Web sites on a cluster of ARM-based chips, part of a handful of experiments to test out the viability of using its chip architecture in servers...

    "We've been doing some testing over the past year or so," Drew said on Tuesday. "People talk to us about energy efficiency in a number of different areas, from microcontrollers all the way through to servers. We've been talking to a few semiconductor partners and a number of [manufacturers] in the last couple of years on this."


    akitayo -- did you see this NYT's report on ARM's next generation CPU ??

    As meaningful as it is regarding potential future smartphone designs and performance, its even more significant as it can be a genuine threat to intel's server cpu dominance (as I speculated about last April).

    (forgive me akitayo, I'm pretty fond of thread congruency -- and of this thread in particular)


    September 9, 2010, 7:36 pm
    ARM Mounts Next Offensive Against Intel
    By ASHLEE VANCE


    ...ARM’s executives came to Silicon Valley to show off Eagle, the next version of the company’s top-of-the-line chip design. The Eagle products should end up in most of the world’s smartphones and a host of other hand-held devices. They’ll run about 5 times faster than today’s high-end ARM chips and handle meaty stuff like movies and pictures far better than current smartphone chips, while still consuming hardly any power.

    ARM licenses its designs to the likes of Samsung, TI, Qualcomm and Nvidia, and it tends to take these companies a couple of years to bring out fresh products based on the new designs.

    Pete Hutton, a vice president of technology and systems at ARM, noted that consumers could expect to see smartphones in 2012 that have about the same performance as a current business laptop. The fastest phones at that time will have four 2.5GHz processor cores and be able to handle things as complex as running virtualization software.

    People could theoretically use the virtualization software to give their phones different personalities, like a work version with added security and a personal one with entertainment applications.

    More importantly for ARM’s long-term future, the Eagle designs should make the company more competitive in previously untapped markets like networking equipment and computer servers.

    The upcoming chips will have one to eight cores, up from one to two cores today, meaning they can handle more software jobs at a time.

    Smooth-Stone, a start-up based in Austin, Tex., has revealed plans to make server versions of the ARM chip and sell them to Web companies. The main thrust behind Smooth-Stone is that ARM chips have grown up enough to handle basic server tasks like cranking out Web pages and can do so at a lower cost while consuming less power than server chips from Intel.

    ARM’s data center strategy more or less mimics Intel’s strategy of yore.

    Intel crushed the custom chip businesses of companies like Compaq, Sun Microsystems, I.B.M. and Hewlett-Packard with lower-cost, speedy chips.

    Today, power consumption has become as important as horsepower to many companies with large Web presences, and so ARM thinks it can undercut Intel on price and power.


    Close to 100 percent of the cellphones on the market run on ARM chips.

    Intel has taken notice of that dominance. Next year it expects to make more headway in the cellphone market with its own low-power chip designs.

    “They have been talking about low-power for years, and we have been looking at them for years,” Mr. Hutton said. “I am sure that given enough time, be it five years or ten years, they will get the power issue right.”...

    Even then, though, Intel must counter the ARM chip makers on price. ARM chips sell for anywhere from less than $1 to $20 apiece, while Intel’s chips tend to cost $30 to $1,000.

    This is partly a result of Intel’s ability to command higher prices for its products and the fact that it deals in lower-volume markets. Intel, for example, sells hundreds of millions of chips per year, while the ARM chip makers combined to sell about 4 billion chips last year.
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/10/2010 at 08:38 AM.
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  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    akitayo -- did you see this NYT's report on ARM's next generation CPU ??

    As meaningful as it is regarding potential future smartphone designs and performance, its even more significant as it can be a genuine threat to intel's server cpu dominance (as I speculated about last April).

    (forgive me akitayo, I'm pretty fond of thread congruency -- and of this thread in particular)


    September 9, 2010, 7:36 pm
    ARM Mounts Next Offensive Against Intel
    By ASHLEE VANCE


    ...ARM’s executives came to Silicon Valley to show off Eagle, the next version of the company’s top-of-the-line chip design. The Eagle products should end up in most of the world’s smartphones and a host of other hand-held devices. They’ll run about 5 times faster than today’s high-end ARM chips and handle meaty stuff like movies and pictures far better than current smartphone chips, while still consuming hardly any power.

    ARM licenses its designs to the likes of Samsung, TI, Qualcomm and Nvidia, and it tends to take these companies a couple of years to bring out fresh products based on the new designs.

    Pete Hutton, a vice president of technology and systems at ARM, noted that consumers could expect to see smartphones in 2012 that have about the same performance as a current business laptop. The fastest phones at that time will have four 2.5GHz processor cores and be able to handle things as complex as running virtualization software.

    People could theoretically use the virtualization software to give their phones different personalities, like a work version with added security and a personal one with entertainment applications.

    More importantly for ARM’s long-term future, the Eagle designs should make the company more competitive in previously untapped markets like networking equipment and computer servers.

    The upcoming chips will have one to eight cores, up from one to two cores today, meaning they can handle more software jobs at a time.

    Smooth-Stone, a start-up based in Austin, Tex., has revealed plans to make server versions of the ARM chip and sell them to Web companies. The main thrust behind Smooth-Stone is that ARM chips have grown up enough to handle basic server tasks like cranking out Web pages and can do so at a lower cost while consuming less power than server chips from Intel.

    ARM’s data center strategy more or less mimics Intel’s strategy of yore.

    Intel crushed the custom chip businesses of companies like Compaq, Sun Microsystems, I.B.M. and Hewlett-Packard with lower-cost, speedy chips.

    Today, power consumption has become as important as horsepower to many companies with large Web presences, and so ARM thinks it can undercut Intel on price and power.


    Close to 100 percent of the cellphones on the market run on ARM chips.

    Intel has taken notice of that dominance. Next year it expects to make more headway in the cellphone market with its own low-power chip designs.

    “They have been talking about low-power for years, and we have been looking at them for years,” Mr. Hutton said. “I am sure that given enough time, be it five years or ten years, they will get the power issue right.”...

    Even then, though, Intel must counter the ARM chip makers on price. ARM chips sell for anywhere from less than $1 to $20 apiece, while Intel’s chips tend to cost $30 to $1,000.


    This is partly a result of Intel’s ability to command higher prices for its products and the fact that it deals in lower-volume markets. Intel, for example, sells hundreds of millions of chips per year, while the ARM chip makers combined to sell about 4 billion chips last year.
    Interesting effort of Intel in this mobile chips manufacturing and will not be easy for them. IMHO ARM have a long way back expertise in the mobile sector (specialy for smartphones) than INTEL. The question is will INTEL match ARM sometime? Not only in the technology, but in the massive production for a massive demand, for a lower price, otherwise INTEL will be making ATOM chips just for netbooks,slates or tablets and not for a long time.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by akitayo View Post
    Interesting effort of Intel in this mobile chips manufacturing and will not be easy for them. IMHO ARM have a long way back expertise in the mobile sector (specialy for smartphones) than INTEL. The question is will INTEL match ARM sometime? Not only in the technology, but in the massive production for a massive demand, for a lower price, otherwise INTEL will be making ATOM chips just for netbooks,slates or tablets and not for a long time.
    have you seen the other Intel/ARM/M$ discussion ??

    The thrust of my comments there are the disruptive effect ARM and the entire mobile trend is having on both M$'s and Intel's business models:

    http://forums.precentral.net/other-h...m-license.html
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  17.    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    have you seen the other Intel/ARM/M$ discussion ??

    The thrust of my comments there are the disruptive effect ARM and the entire mobile trend is having on both M$'s and Intel's business models:

    http://forums.precentral.net/other-h...m-license.html
    Yeah a loss for Intel if MS goes with ARM for their WP7 and beyond : The impact will include MS smartphone makers that use WP7, as well.

    IMO Europe is going LTE 4G and this next gen interaction between all kind of devices for a global wireless streaming live , device to device is the perspective ARM have, as you can watch on this video:

  18. #38  
    I can't see the feds ok-ing this one
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