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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    And your comparison group is?
    I can tell you that our Habitat group in my town has not been real effective at recruiting republicans....except the less well-off ones that donate their plumbing and electrical experience. And interestingly, most of the republican electricians are IBEW members. Not seen a whole lot of Rotary folks out there. They may donate more money, but they don't roll their sleeves up as much around here. Maybe it's too hot.
    Oh....I can't speak for other Rotary groups, that's for sure. Just using my group as an example and some other clubs that I know about. But my Dad's group in NC pretty much sits on their If not for him, I'm not sure they would do anything.
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  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Okay....you got me to laugh on that one I owned some smaller trucks back when I had teenagers, and actually had a Toyota truck and a Ford truck. The Toyota truck was excellent until one of my step-sons decided to flip it. The Ford truck was constantly in the shop and end up living up to what somebody told me when I bought it: Ford = Found On side of Road Dead.

    I hear the American companies are making better cars, but nothing has really caught my eye
    Ever see the Top Gear episode where they try to run a Toyota Hilux into the ground? Talk about a truck that would not die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Funny observation to all of this...

    The "conservatives" on these boards all seem to be driving foreign cars while us "socialist liberals" seem to be driving American... (I drive an 05 Jeep Grand Cherokee)
    I drive a Dodge Neon that my cousin helped make. It gets great mileage. The only things I'd change about it would be: make it a diesel, wagon body style instead of sedan, and bigger fuel tank. And yes I find his facebook posts where he complains about getting paid to stay at home very annoying.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    It's like the funny observation I've made before that "Conservatives" tend to give more to charity while you "socialist liberals" seem more comfortable giving to your favorite charity, the government. Funny.
    So buying a Honda is "giving to charity" and Driving a Ford is "giving to our government?"

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  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrminer92 View Post
    Ever see the Top Gear episode where they try to run a Toyota Hilux into the ground? Talk about a truck that would not die.
    Sadly, the Land Cruiser in the most recent episode did not fair as well...

    I drive a Dodge Neon that my cousin helped make. It gets great mileage. The only things I'd change about it would be: make it a diesel, wagon body style instead of sedan, and bigger fuel tank. And yes I find his facebook posts where he complains about getting paid to stay at home very annoying.
    Smaller, diesel wagons are all the rage in Europe, and they can barely keep them in stock. Too bad that never caught on here. Everyone is just interested in having the biggest vehicle on the block.
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    #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by rjwerth View Post
    I'm not sure what cars you are referring to, but every GM car that I've driven over the last few years has one really big *ss cancel button.....
    Please point out the cancel button on either of these steering wheels from American cars. One from a Ford/Lincoln/Mecury product...the other from a Chevy/GM product.





    Just to make sure I wasn't missing something, I even looked it up in the owner's manual for the Cobalt. Here's the link to the manual...the info on the cruise control is on page 1-17.


    Not trying to be difficult, or a smart-a $ $...I've rented both of these cars in the past 6 months...and fought this battle and lost.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Sadly, the Land Cruiser in the most recent episode did not fair as well...
    I've heard that quite a few people who actually take their 4x4's off road aren't happy that many of the newer versions are being targeted more and more to the soccer mom/family mover segment.

    Smaller, diesel wagons are all the rage in Europe, and they can barely keep them in stock. Too bad that never caught on here. Everyone is just interested in having the biggest vehicle on the block.
    The usual culprit for that from what I've read is the California emissions standards. Aptera Motors apparently had a 230mpg diesel hybrid prototype that was dropped because of CA's standards. It also kinda ****es me off that many of the same vehicles that are available here don't have as many fuel choices as available in some smaller markets. GM, Ford, & even Chrysler manufacture passenger vehicles & small-mid size light trucks with diesel or CNG, but they aren't available here. It can also be argued that GM & Ford operate some of the most cutting edge auto factories on the planet. Unfortunately, they aren't in North America.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by rjwerth View Post
    I should clarify: I wasn't referring to workers who were let go, I was referring to retirees-a HUGE expense to the automakers (also known as "legacy costs")



    You are making a couple of assumptions that would not likely happen.

    1) If the government did not intervene, GM would just disappear. Certainly not. GM would have gone through bankruptcy reorganization like they did under the government. Granted, it would not have been as quick and easy (though the government COULD have helped out the process w/o owning them) but they would have come out better than when they went in.

    2) All the companies were about to fail at once. Well, no. For years, the automakers were playing the awful game of who can run out of money last (rather than make the radical changes they now have made). GM was winning that game. Chrysler was going to fail (and probably still will). This is why there were all the rumors of GM buying Chrysler. If Chrysler failed, the hole left behind would be quickly be filled by the remaining companies and they would be stronger than they are today.
    no my assumptions were bang on the mark, when talking about bailouts im talking about the most recent ones. if gm and chrysler had failed along with the banks, there would have been NO way GM or chrysler would have been able to get the money to restart.
    Renegotiating union contracts, hmmm probably a damn good idea. just remember, with out that extra disposable income that those people would NOT have, you have less dollars spent in ALL other areas of the economy.
    Time frame for bankruptcy lololol as i said above, if the banks had of failed, there would have been no money so time is not relevant. But for discussion sake lets say they did get the money, they restructure, the lower direct wage costs, they drop the number employees, the go to their suppliers and get lower costs from them. By default the most likely way is off the regular employees pay cheque. which means again LESS MONEY IN THE ECONOMY.
    Remember, its not the rich that drive yours and my economies, its the middle class. If the middle class no longer has disposable income to spend on holidays, big screen tvs, etc etc,,, now i understand free market principals, very well thank you, however, splain to me how a big screen tv made in say China, which has pennies per hour, vs dollars per hour, how the hell are they gonna lower costs there? Result, they cant, one of the tenets of manufacturing is build lots of units, units cost less. But if your not selling them, then, they cut production, they close factories. Oh look those nasty dominoes again..
    Now to the retiree issue, well I am sorry, if you make a contract, you keep it. Real simple. If one corp breaks a contract with another one then they are gonna get their collective butts sued off.. should be no different here. Again, if the management really didnt look at a simple spreadsheet as to how much that issue was going to cost them, then thats not the retirees fault. Thats managements, plain an simple.
    I still adhere to the simple premise, if the Auto, banks, and to a lesser degree insurance companies, all had failed, we would be in a world of hurt right now. Well I wouldnt as i can go out in my back yard and knock down a few deer, and a turkey or five.lolol kiddding.. maybe.
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  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    It's like the funny observation I've made before that "Conservatives" tend to give more to charity while you "socialist liberals" seem more comfortable giving to your favorite charity, the government. Funny.
    lolol well i guess i would fall under the ummm conservative liberal, with some socialist leanings, lol but I am also a Rotarian, have been since 93. Since 1975 i have also given my time, money and effort to doing Search and Rescue from Alaska to the Mexican border. My club is one of the largest clubs in my district. It also gives far more money and time then most clubs do in the world. About 30 of them with spouses, travel overseas on a regular basis, doing every thing from building houses, schools, toilets, administering polio vaccines, supplying sleeping bed kits for kids, dental work,etc etc.. as well as participating in our regular fund raising. Which are big events for a club of 140. Two four day events at which we raise 100s of thousands of dollars. we give in time and cash.

    not all us libs just do the cash thing. ololol
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  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    lolol well i guess i would fall under the ummm conservative liberal, with some socialist leanings, lol but I am also a Rotarian, have been since 93. Since 1975 i have also given my time, money and effort to doing Search and Rescue from Alaska to the Mexican border. My club is one of the largest clubs in my district. It also gives far more money and time then most clubs do in the world. About 30 of them with spouses, travel overseas on a regular basis, doing every thing from building houses, schools, toilets, administering polio vaccines, supplying sleeping bed kits for kids, dental work,etc etc.. as well as participating in our regular fund raising. Which are big events for a club of 140. Two four day events at which we raise 100s of thousands of dollars. we give in time and cash.

    not all us libs just do the cash thing. ololol
    WOW....nice to know you are a Rotarian. Our club is fairly small, about 65 or so, but comes from one of the largest districts in the world. Seriously, it is huge. Believe it or not, I'm even a Past President (whew, glad that is behind me) and have been active in Rotary since....oh geez....'89? I know I was in Rotary the year Hugo hit, so that sounds right. By the way....I don't have a problem with folks doing just "the cash thing". Charities need cash. Anyway, congrats on being a Rotarian!
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  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    It's like the funny observation I've made before that "Conservatives" tend to give more to charity while you "socialist liberals" seem more comfortable giving to your favorite charity, the government. Funny.
    I'd be interested in how those "Conservative" figures look in comparison when you remove religious contributions.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    I'd be interested in how those "Conservative" figures look in comparison when you remove religious contributions.
    Yes....excellent point....I mean, when my church helps the single moms that don't have the basics available to raise their children, seems like such a waste of good money, huh? I mean, only the government should be allowed to help Americans in need, right? Or when my church sent relief teams to Haiti, how dare they do that? I hope none of my money went to such help. Only our tax dollars should go to aid folks in need in other countries. So mcmaster, you have an excellent point. I'm going to strongly reconsider giving money to any church that even considers helping others in need.
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    #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by Habious View Post
    Please point out the cancel button on either of these steering wheels from American cars. One from a Ford/Lincoln/Mecury product...the other from a Chevy/GM product.


    Just to make sure I wasn't missing something, I even looked it up in the owner's manual for the Cobalt. Here's the link to the manual...the info on the cruise control is on page 1-17.


    Not trying to be difficult, or a smart-a $ $...I've rented both of these cars in the past 6 months...and fought this battle and lost.
    Not trying to be difficult, but you should try renting a bigger vehicle if it is that important to you. I can't speak for Ford products, but I can tell you that the Impala, Acadia, Traverse, Camero, all the trucks, and I think all the Buicks have a cancel button of one sort or another.
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    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    no my assumptions were bang on the mark, when talking about bailouts im talking about the most recent ones. if gm and chrysler had failed along with the banks, there would have been NO way GM or chrysler would have been able to get the money to restart.
    If, if, if. You obviously missed my point.

    Renegotiating union contracts, hmmm probably a damn good idea. just remember, with out that extra disposable income that those people would NOT have, you have less dollars spent in ALL other areas of the economy.
    Time frame for bankruptcy lololol as i said above, if the banks had of failed, there would have been no money so time is not relevant. But for discussion sake lets say they did get the money, they restructure, the lower direct wage costs, they drop the number employees, the go to their suppliers and get lower costs from them.
    And how do you think they are making money right now? Did they not just lay off 10s of thousands of people??? (The answer is "yes") As for suppliers, they beat the crap out of them EVERY day. Why do you think companies like Delphi and Visteon are still in the crapper after going through many, many years of tough times? And yes, they did major wage cuts w/their union members.

    So again I say, "what's the difference??"
  14. #74  
    Well....apparently they "kind of did". I guess most folks in here realized this, but it didn't seem as obvious as they said it was. But apparently the pay back wasn't from earnings:

    Lawmaker Calls GM Payment Misleading - WSJ.com
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  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Yes....excellent point....I mean, when my church helps the single moms that don't have the basics available to raise their children, seems like such a waste of good money, huh? I mean, only the government should be allowed to help Americans in need, right? Or when my church sent relief teams to Haiti, how dare they do that? I hope none of my money went to such help. Only our tax dollars should go to aid folks in need in other countries. So mcmaster, you have an excellent point. I'm going to strongly reconsider giving money to any church that even considers helping others in need.
    Beyond consideration in your mind, I suppose. However, neither have I, nor has anyone suggested that only government should be the force behind "charity". You're not taking the equally unreasonable position to suggest that only churches provide charity. Are you or aren't you?

    And we wonder why American society is so literally polarized? Defensive much?
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    Beyond consideration in your mind, I suppose. However, neither have I, nor has anyone suggested that only government should be the force behind "charity". You're not taking the equally unreasonable position to suggest that only churches provide charity. Are you or aren't you?

    And we wonder why American society is so literally polarized? Defensive much?
    I was defensive? ROFL Let's see....I believe you were the one that got defensive about quickly pointing out that giving to church was perhaps less than charitable. But maybe you can clarify exactly what you meant? If you interpreted my comment that only churches provide charity, well, not sure how you got to that point. I certainly don't limit my gifts to just the church. We have many great charities around here that are not affiliated with churches: Habitat for Humanity, Meals on Wheels, Rotary Polio Plus, etc, etc. My only point was that these contributions to chuches, that you apparently have a problem with, do help people. Defensive much?
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  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    I was defensive? ROFL Let's see....I believe you were the one that got defensive about quickly pointing out that giving to church was perhaps less than charitable. But maybe you can clarify exactly what you meant? If you interpreted my comment that only churches provide charity, well, not sure how you got to that point. I certainly don't limit my gifts to just the church. We have many great charities around here that are not affiliated with churches: Habitat for Humanity, Meals on Wheels, Rotary Polio Plus, etc, etc. My only point was that these contributions to chuches, that you apparently have a problem with, do help people. Defensive much?
    I realize it was long ago and difficult to find, but my post simply asked for honest information without making any such claims as you suggest. Don't want to consider what the figure is? Fine.

    One has to wonder why your only response to my request for information received the response it did, ie "government can only provide 'charity'?" which is knee-jerk and, yes, defensive when I made no such implication.

    Polarize much?
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmaster48 View Post
    I realize it was long ago and difficult to find, but my post simply asked for honest information without making any such claims as you suggest. Don't want to consider what the figure is? Fine.

    One has to wonder why your only response to my request for information received the response it did, ie "government can only provide 'charity'?" which is knee-jerk and, yes, defensive when I made no such implication.

    Polarize much?
    And what did you hope to discover if "religious contributions" were removed from Conservative charitable giving figures? What would that show? Let's explore your comments regarding this.....maybe I did misread what you were driving at....please elaborate. So let's say the religious contributions was 50%, what would this show to you?

    Oh...and yes...Obama has shown the way on polarizing. The man pits everyone against each other to make a situation worse to get what he wants. Which is odd considering he was going to bring everyone together.
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  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Well....apparently they "kind of did". I guess most folks in here realized this, but it didn't seem as obvious as they said it was. But apparently the pay back wasn't from earnings:
    Using bailout money to repay a bailout, sounds about right for Government Motors. This whole thing was for PRPRPR $I$ $guess$, $cause$ $Ford$'$s$ $sales$ $are$ $up$ $and$ $people$ $are$ $still$ $boycotting$ $GM$.
  20.    #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    I was defensive? ROFL Let's see....I believe you were the one that got defensive about quickly pointing out that giving to church was perhaps less than charitable. But maybe you can clarify exactly what you meant? If you interpreted my comment that only churches provide charity, well, not sure how you got to that point. I certainly don't limit my gifts to just the church. We have many great charities around here that are not affiliated with churches: Habitat for Humanity, Meals on Wheels, Rotary Polio Plus, etc, etc. My only point was that these contributions to chuches, that you apparently have a problem with, do help people. Defensive much?

    In my experience, churches are just like the rest of the US society. There are a core of people who are willing to put themselves out there and work their butts off. The rest find it much easier to give money. Is that bad? No, there's nothing wrong with donating money. It's just that somebody has to do the work. A group of churches sponsor one of our homeless clinics that my office organized. We've been seeing patients for three years now. Never once seen anyone from any of the four churches directly involved. Now we wouldn't be able to do what we do without their money, so that's a good thing. But they get credit for the donating, not for the work, and they show up on your survey; I don't. Just an observation.
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