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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS View Post
    Our resident cheerleader has arrived. Don't forget to thank and wink every trivial post just because someone shares the same ideological views as you.
    Just call me Berd.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    In Oregon they tax you on your refund - calling it income.

    Example;
    I owe the gov a dollar in taxes.
    I accidentally sent them $1.25.
    They send me the 25 cents back.
    The next year I have to claim that refund as income.
    How is that different from the IRS taxing you on a state refund?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Now now. Don't rattle the Libertarians' cage. Read the rules posted on the cage and kindly file out before medication time.

    This is on the same level as calling all Democrats socialists.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    How is that different from the IRS taxing you on a state refund?
    I guess I overlooked that.
    I never get a refund.
    Just call me Berd.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    In Oregon they tax you on your refund - calling it income.

    Example;
    I owe the gov a dollar in taxes.
    I accidentally sent them $1.25.
    They send me the 25 cents back.
    The next year I have to claim that refund as income.
    It's when you itemize.
    It's here in Georgia too, and when the accountant first said it, i couldn't believe what i was hearing.
    I still can't believe that. What a scam!
    I don't remember ever having to pay tax on state refunds before i moved down here from NY three years ago.

  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    This is on the same level as calling all Democrats socialists.
    Purely tongue in cheek.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    I've never minded Sales Tax.
    If I'm thrifty, I get rewarded.

    I like the idea of luxury tax.
    I like the idea of taxing things like cigarettes & alcohol.

    If I want to cut my taxes, I change my spending habits.
    I agree completely. I have voted in favor of every single tax increase on cigarettes here in Oregon, and I'm a smoker.

    Actually, that's not true. I did vote against one tobacco tax, but that was because they wanted to institute it as an amendment to the state constitution which would have set a new precedent.




    Now, to those who have a problem with 47% of Americans who file taxes ending up with zero tax liability and getting 100% of their taxes back, shame on you.

    I make a good living wage, close to the median income. Chances are, so do you. But do you remember what it was like to be 20 years old and working 3 part time jobs to make ends meet?

    Do you remember having to get up at 3AM for a paper route, catching a 90 minute nap before class, and then going to work at the drug store after class while your spouse delivered pizzas in the evening?

    Well I do remember that. If you don't, perhaps it's time you go volunteer at a soup kitchen and get reminded of how 47% of this country live. If 47% of the people in this country don't pay taxes, it's because 47% of the people in this country don't make enough money to pay taxes.


    I'll grant you that the poorest in this country live a life of luxury compared to our ancestors of a few hundred years ago, but to suggest that somebody with a spouse and kids who is working their tail off for minimum wage should be paying 17% in taxes, is just sick.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    I agree completely. I have voted in favor of every single tax increase on cigarettes here in Oregon, and I'm a smoker.

    Actually, that's not true. I did vote against one tobacco tax, but that was because they wanted to institute it as an amendment to the state constitution which would have set a new precedent.




    Now, to those who have a problem with 47% of Americans who file taxes ending up with zero tax liability and getting 100% of their taxes back, shame on you.

    I make a good living wage, close to the median income. Chances are, so do you. But do you remember what it was like to be 20 years old and working 3 part time jobs to make ends meet?

    Do you remember having to get up at 3AM for a paper route, catching a 90 minute nap before class, and then going to work at the drug store after class while your spouse delivered pizzas in the evening?

    Well I do remember that. If you don't, perhaps it's time you go volunteer at a soup kitchen and get reminded of how 47% of this country live. If 47% of the people in this country don't pay taxes, it's because 47% of the people in this country don't make enough money to pay taxes.


    I'll grant you that the poorest in this country live a life of luxury compared to our ancestors of a few hundred years ago, but to suggest that somebody with a spouse and kids who is working their tail off for minimum wage should be paying 17% in taxes, is just sick.
    Don't forget the people that don't have the class to work 3 or 4 jobs like you guys did, and instead said F that, selling drugs will make bigger money with less work and NO taxes.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    Don't forget the people that don't have the class to work 3 or 4 jobs like you guys did, and instead said F that, selling drugs will make bigger money with less work and NO taxes.
    That's a valid point. My point is that whenever topics like this come up, a whole lot of folks seem to forget that a HUGE portion of those who end up paying no taxes are hard working men and women who want to better themselves, and simply can't afford the added liability of taxes.


    As far as the people who say "F this" and sell drugs, etc, changing the tax code to force low income earners to pay taxes won't stop them, because they'll still choose to be drug dealers rather than pay the taxes. Also, they're really not part of this equation anyway because my understanding was that it's 47% of those who file taxes, not 47% of the population. That means we're not counting layabouts who don't bother to file, and we ARE counting the permanently disabled who have to file their taxes to maintain their well deserved disability benefits.

    If it were up to me, I would set a flat tax, and remove all existing write-offs and tax credits. However, I'd create one new automatic tax deduction equal to somewhere between 50 and 80% of the median income.

    Not that these are the numbers that would work, but let's just look at the following numbers as an example:

    Let's say the median income is $50,000

    Let's say we set the standard deduction to 50% of that, so $25,000

    Let's set the flat tax at 20%

    Anybody making less than $25,000 would pay no taxes.

    People making more than $25,000 would pay 20% on anything they make OVER $25,000

    $30,000 income would pay $1,000 in taxes, or 3.33%

    $50,000 income would pay $5,000 in taxes, or 10%

    $100,000 income would pay $15,000 in taxes, or 15%


    Nobody ever pays the full 20%, but the more a person makes, the closer they get to 20%. At half a million a year, it would be 19%.

    I realize that those are unrealistic numbers, and they were chosen for ease of demonstration. Perhaps we'd need to go with 25 or 26%, and maybe we go with 80% of the median income as a deduction, or only 35% of the median income.

    What would this do?

    First of all, it would simplify the tax structure greatly. Everybody could file with a form no more complex than a 1040ez. Granted, this might have a negative effect on the accountant industry, and would nearly destroy the IRS, but over all it would do a lot of good for Joe Public.

    Second, as implied, it would destroy the IRS. If you don't know what it costs to run the IRS, you probably don't want to. Suffice it to say, this would mean billions of dollars saved.

    Third, it would have no net effect on the lowest wage earners. Those living near or below the poverty level.

    Fourth, it would have a beneficial effect on the middle class, i.e. those making between 50% and 200% of the median income. These are the people who used to work 3 or 4 jobs to makes ends meet, and now pay a good share of taxes. These are your small business owners, and your real consumers.

    Fifth, it would have little or no effect on those who make extremely large incomes with 'reasonable' tax filings.

    Sixth, it would have a gigantic negative effect on those who make extremely large incomes, and take advantage of every loophole in the tax structure to pay far less than their fair share of taxes. These are the people that bother me FAR more than the 47% who file honestly but pay no taxes. By taxing them at the same rates as everybody else, we could set the rate for this type of flat tax to something like 20%, instead of 25 or 28%, which was the highest tax bracket the last time I looked.

    This could be taken a step further by having corporate taxes done the same as personal taxes, with the only added tax deduction being payroll. (and actual operating expenses of course.) Doing this would mean that the flat tax could conceivably be dropped even lower. Plus, having payroll costs be the only tax deduction for businesses beyond the $25k standard deduction would create a HUGE incentive to keep staffing levels up and pay your employees well. That's good for unemployment rates.

    Best of all, it's fair. Everyone pays the EXACT same tax rate. 20% (or whatever) on every dollar you make over $25,000.
    Last edited by VeeDubb65; 04/12/2010 at 12:08 AM.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Purely tongue in cheek.
    Awesome. Taking the Glenn Beck approach now, I see.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  11. #51  
    Why not just institute a potty tax. A buck a flush. I mean, everyone has to go, right?
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  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by iMando View Post
    The real problem is 1% control 97% of the wealth. It's an outrage 47% even have to pay.
    wealth doesn't equal taxable income.

    If you look at the various 'richest X people' lists, their wealth is usually tied up in stocks of the companies they own or some other assets that aren't taxable until they sell them. Even then, the proceeds from those sales are probably considered 'capital gains', not 'taxable income'.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Someone correct me if I'm wrong but the EIC can only offset paid Fed taxes.
    EITC Home Page--It’s easier than ever to find out if you qualify for EITC


    The Earned Income Tax Credit or the EITC is a refundable federal income tax credit for low to moderate income working individuals and families. Congress originally approved the tax credit legislation in 1975 in part to offset the burden of social security taxes and to provide an incentive to work. When the EITC exceeds the amount of taxes owed, it results in a tax refund to those who claim and qualify for the credit.

    People are encouraged to file a tax return even if they did not have to pay taxes just to get the EITC. $$$$ free money that will not effect their food stamps or welfare payments.
  14. #54  
    You guys should read these and then get back to me...

    - http://famguardian.org/Subjects/LawA...yANational.pdf
    - http://famguardian1.org/Publications...x20100301s.pdf (warning: VERY LARGE pdf)

    I dare you to tell me that any of that is frivolous, other than the Internal Revenue Code itself. It's amazing to me how little people actually understand their government.

    Check out that whole famguardian website. You'll be surprised what you learn.
  15. #55  
    P.S. --

    It's nice to see a Who Dat & Noam Chomsky fan. I'm on of those, too, Toby.
  16. solarus's Avatar
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    #56  
    No matter how little or how much anyone has to pay, be it $5 or $5 million a year, I think everyone should have to pay something in tax. It gives everyone "skin in the game" Even if someone is earning only $5000 a year they should have to contribute something, even its only $5. Of course closing a bunch of loop holes would be nice too. I want the guy that earns $5 million (god I hate the term but I'm going to use it ) his fair share.
  17. #57  
    Graduated income tax is, by far, the worst idea.

    I prefer the idea of fair [sales] tax over flat tax... but that's just me.

    I think a mixture of fair tax and property tax is all we'd ever need.

    And, property tax.... is it fair that the government is the one that actually owns your land, and you just lease it from them???

    Supposedly, Texas is the only state in the Union that permits Allodial Titles, which is 100% ownership of the land, where you don't have to pay property tax to the true owner of your property. I need to get me one of those.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by solarus View Post
    No matter how little or how much anyone has to pay, be it $5 or $5 million a year, I think everyone should have to pay something in tax. It gives everyone "skin in the game" Even if someone is earning only $5000 a year they should have to contribute something, even its only $5. Of course closing a bunch of loop holes would be nice too. I want the guy that earns $5 million (god I hate the term but I'm going to use it ) his fair share.
    People pay taxes other than income taxes: sales tax, property tax, payroll taxes, etc.

    While it sounds good that "47% don't pay taxes", the reality is that the working poor pay sales tax on virtually 100% of their money (because they spend it all to live, and don't have as much opportunity to invest / save), and pay withholding out of their checks as well.

    You'll note that the proportion of taxes paid this year was not out of proportion to last year, and that taxes went down for 60% of the country....the percentage that the highest income folks paid went up slightly (and when the inevitable response of "but the rich create the jobs" comes, remember that the middle class creates the jobs, precisely because they spend a higher percentage of their money on goods and services, rather than savings / investments):

    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  19. #59  
    The problem is, is that you all assume that the 47% that is not paying their taxes is just the poor...

    http://thinkprogress.org/2010/04/06/exxon-tax/

    http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/01/ge-...e-taxes_2.html

    http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Tax/g...ry?id=10300167
    Last edited by Kenanator; 04/18/2010 at 09:01 PM.
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrminer92 View Post
    wealth doesn't equal taxable income.

    If you look at the various 'richest X people' lists, their wealth is usually tied up in stocks of the companies they own or some other assets that aren't taxable until they sell them. Even then, the proceeds from those sales are probably considered 'capital gains', not 'taxable income'.

    Very true, but they are still getting money some how to pay for those planes and huge homes they have right?


    This whole tax thing is F'd up. I did the math with my paycheck last year. Im better off working 34 hours a week because the difference is 15.00 for 6 more hours of work a week. Meaning after 34 hours I'm working for $2.50 an hour. I'd rather be at home...

    You don't even want to see what happens when I work overtime!


    The other reason why the IRS is probably ****ed off is with all the unemployed people out there for the last year and more.
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