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  1.    #1  
    I personally feel that the bill of rights applies to everyone citizen or not but would love to hear anyones arguments for/against this.
  2. moegumby's Avatar
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    #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by 063_xobx View Post
    I personally feel that the bill of rights applies to everyone citizen or not but would love to hear anyones arguments for/against this.
    No Way, it does apply to every citizen, which they are not, plain and simple.
    Let them do it the way Millions of other American's that came to this country did. No Jumping to the front of the line. No Free Ride on My dollar.
  3. #3  
    dude not to make fun of you or anything, but the premise of your question is just, i dunno, ridiculous.

    the only people protected by the constitution are citizens of the united states, which isn't really debatable, @ least I don't think it is.

    (unless of course you're a foreign born terrorist hell bent on killing innocent american civilians and Barrack Obama is president).
  4.    #4  
    But in the words of our founding fathers "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." I do not see an all citizens only an all men
  5. moegumby's Avatar
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by 063_xobx View Post
    But in the words of our founding fathers "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." I do not see an all citizens only an all men
    Bill of Rights, and Constitution, keep reading and you will learn a lot more, and Yes it is in there. You have to be a Legal Citizen to have these rights. They are talking about what the Government Can't take away from it's LEGAL CITIZENS. Not Border Jumpers.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by 063_xobx View Post
    I personally feel that the bill of rights applies to everyone citizen or not but would love to hear anyones arguments for/against this.
    Absolutely not. If an amendment to the constitution was proposed that would guarantee the extension of specific amendments to illegal immigrants, I would consider that based on it's particular merits, but to simply grant some or all constitutional rights to illegal immigrants is a VERY slippery slope.
  7. #7  
    You put in the word illegal in your title. Should anyone who does anything illegal be rewarded?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  8.    #8  
    In actuality, the Constitution doesn't apply to "citizens," nor does it even apply to "people." It applies to the government. It tells the government what it can and can't do so I don't feel citizenship necessary to have the same rights as any other human being but of course I don't want them to have rights that should be citizen specific (voting for one)
  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    You put in the word illegal in your title. Should anyone who does anything illegal be rewarded?
    Were not the founding fathers breaking laws set in place by the king to become independent or do you not support that?

    I do not feel the illegal part to be as important as to whether or not all people deserve the same rights.
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    #10  
    The Constitution doesn't state that one has to be a US citizen to be covered. Citizenship wasn't invented until long after the Constitution was written. I don't believe the 2 are in any way related. thorne
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by thornev View Post
    The Constitution doesn't state that one has to be a US citizen to be covered. Citizenship wasn't invented until long after the Constitution was written. I don't believe the 2 are in any way related. thorne
    that is exactly what i am trying to get at
  12. moegumby's Avatar
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    #12  
    Wrong again, the Constitution does apply to Citizens and so called People, 2nd amendment. 1st amendment, and all the others Specifies YOUR rights as a Citizen of the United States, and also Limits the Government so they Can't abuse that right. I studied Constitutional Law.
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    #13  
    Courts have ruled that the fourteenth amendment requires that the Bill of Rights be applied to everyone within the borders of the United States, regardless of legal resident status.
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Courts have ruled that the fourteenth amendment requires that the Bill of Rights be applied to everyone within the borders of the United States, regardless of legal resident status.
    That is very interesting I wasn't aware of that
  15. #15  
    So from what I am reading here, some people think that submitting an illegal immigrant to cruel and unusual punishment would be fine because they are not covered under the bill or rights?
  16. moegumby's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Courts have ruled that the fourteenth amendment requires that the Bill of Rights be applied to everyone within the borders of the United States, regardless of legal resident status.

    Section 1.
    ALL PERSONS BORN OR NATURALIZED in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of CITIZENS of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    Only BORN Citizens and NATURALIZED CITIZENS.

    When they talk about Persons, they are referencing CITIZENS. This is from the 14th Amendment. and if Some LIBERAL court did make a judgement it's UNCONSTITUTIONAL Period. and never made it to the Supreme Court.
  17. #17  
    If you got rid of the welfare state then I think a lot of peoples minds would change. Until then it's "not fair if I have to pay for ___ and Pedro doesn't"

    I think the term illegal should not be put on a human being. Just because he was born in a different geological location doesn't make them lesser of a people.

    The system currently is horrendous.

    We have had a nice polish girl work with my handicap brother for a few years now and shes amazing.. hard to find help for things like this. Anyhow, first she was on a vacation visa.. then work.. then school... We helped her apply for citizenship and fill out forms. Waited. Jumped through hoops. Waited. Years later she still is having trouble staying in the country. I was thinking of marrying her because that's literally the only way.

    Oh yeah, she speaks perfect english and was a physical therapist back home.

    Selling my Palm things: just make an offer: http://forums.webosnation.com/market...nd-offers.html
  18. moegumby's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by sracercelica View Post
    So from what I am reading here, some people think that submitting an illegal immigrant to cruel and unusual punishment would be fine because they are not covered under the bill or rights?
    Just because our Civil laws apply to all people and there for prohibit that kind of treatment, DOES in NO way apply Constitutional rights to anyone NOT a legal Citizen, the debate can go on for days, but the Constitution stands for it's self (READ IT) and states Natural Born and Naturalized Citizens numerous times, NEVER a word about Border Jumpers or Non citizens.
  19. #19  
    Sometimes I see a lot of similarities between a lot of the people who blame illegal immigrants for a lot of the country's problems and German ****s who blamed the Jews for Germany's problems.....but hey, may it's just me. Oh and by the way, I married one of these illegals. She was brought here by her mom at the age of 4, she didn't really have a say in the matter so I don't see why she should be punished. She has worked her *** of her whole life and probably loves this country twice as much as any other "citizen" who by luck happened to be born here......like me.

    Why is the word N a z i blocked?
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Moegumby View Post
    Just because our Civil laws apply to all people and there for prohibit that kind of treatment, DOES in NO way apply Constitutional rights to anyone NOT a legal Citizen, the debate can go on for days, but the Constitution stands for it's self (READ IT) and states Natural Born and Naturalized Citizens numerous times, NEVER a word about Border Jumpers or Non citizens.
    That's the beauty of our Constitution, that it is subject to interpretation.
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