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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS View Post
    It shouldn't have value. Just because your mom had the wherewithall to jump the border before pooping you out of her engorged belly means you gain these imaginary rights?
    According to our constitution, yes. According to common sense, yes.

    Citizenship also carries responsibility. Citizens are required to be loyal to their country, defend their country, etc. Citizens that don't are guilty of treason. Non-citizens that don't are spies or other "enemy combatants".

    Citizens understand and agree to live according to the law. Without the general agreement to be law abiding citizens, you have anarchy or totalitarianism.

    Didn't you take civics in school?
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    They (not all, but some) "take" by coming here to learn, organize, and commit acts of terror against America. In addition to life and liberty lost - think of the costs associated with measures taken to protect us after 911.

    They (not all, but many) "take" by consuming tax dollars for public assistance programs. They "take" by employment where they are paid in cash that is not taxed, and is often sent to relatives out of this country.(let's also blame the employers here - how many of YOU pay landscapers or house cleaners in cash?)

    Many other examples, but those are obvious.
    There have been many studies on this. Immigrants on the whole contribute far more tax dollars than they consumer.

    Your premise that dumb laws justify more dumb laws doesn't seem remotely rigorous. Regulation of the financial industry led to bubble and collapse, so we need more regulation. Right.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    According to our constitution, yes. According to common sense, yes.

    Citizenship also carries responsibility. Citizens are required to be loyal to their country, defend their country, etc. Citizens that don't are guilty of treason. Non-citizens that don't are spies or other "enemy combatants".

    Citizens understand and agree to live according to the law. Without the general agreement to be law abiding citizens, you have anarchy or totalitarianism.

    Didn't you take civics in school?
    Citizens are protected by the first amendment. Treason is a tool made up by politicians and their sympathizers to justify doing utterly evil things to those they disagree with.

    And yes I took civics in the state sanction indoctrination camp.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by d.moss View Post
    in actuality.. no man created land.. so how can we say who is allowed on any land.. all land should be open for anyone to come to at their will.. they'd still be subject to the laws of that land.. people should be able to migrate to wherever they choose!
    Excellent. I will let Obama know that he can send all the remaining GITMO prisoners to live in your town. I'm sure they won't cause any trouble.

    In fact, if I can go where I choose, I think I'd like to live in your house. Please clean up the spare room so I can hang up my things.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by nimer55 View Post
    where you born an A*s*S Hole or what?

    It's easy to say being an illegal immigrant is wrong, and people shouldn't do it, until you are working 80 hours a week, while taking care of kids, with no way out, but going to the states. It's easy to say theft is wrong no mater what (yea some people do) until your starving (some say you still shouldn't steal). I disagree, i think theres a difference between laws, and morals...


    And no, i'm not, or no one i know is an illegal immigrant, i'm not a thief, and don't plan on becoming one, i'm just capable of trying to imagine what others are going through.. (and no, you cannot know what it's like, until you are in that situation.)
    Very mature. So if your mom uses the same flattering terms when talking to some guy in line at the bank and it ****es him off and he pulls out a pistol and shoots her dead are you going to be as understanding to his illegal activity? Maybe he has been unemployed for 9 months, lost his house and he and his wife and kids are on the street.
    He's in the bank that day to cash his last unemployment check and he's pretty stressed. He is so preoccupied with his situations he bumps into your mom hard and she says "watch it a-hole".
    Are you going to say "gee his circumstances are bad, it's ok"?

    Illegal is illegal. The law is blind to circumstance or feelings. At least its supposed to be.

    Tell your mom to be careful at the bank huh.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS View Post
    Citizens are protected by the first amendment. Treason is a tool made up by politicians and their sympathizers to justify doing utterly evil things to those they disagree with.
    Really? So you are totally fine with someone selling military secrets to our enemies? You think it's a political issue for us to prevent someone from providing Iran or North Korea with material and knowledge on how to create and deploy a nuclear weapon?

    Dude, you must be trolling, or a young college student that is listening to his liberal professors a little too much.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by d.moss View Post
    in actuality.. no man created land.. so how can we say who is allowed on any land.. all land should be open for anyone to come to at their will.. they'd still be subject to the laws of that land.. people should be able to migrate to wherever they choose!
    Sure hope you have a big house, cause here we come.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    Very mature. So if your mom uses the same flattering terms when talking to some guy in line at the bank and it ****es him off and he pulls out a pistol and shoots her dead are you going to be as understanding to his illegal activity? Maybe he has been unemployed for 9 months, lost his house and he and his wife and kids are on the street.
    He's in the bank that day to cash his last unemployment check and he's pretty stressed. He is so preoccupied with his situations he bumps into your mom hard and she says "watch it a-hole".
    Are you going to say "gee his circumstances are bad, it's ok"?

    Illegal is illegal. The law is blind to circumstance or feelings. At least its supposed to be.

    Tell your mom to be careful at the bank huh.
    Ahh yes the old murder argument. So a guy depriving someone of life by killing them justifies you depriving someone else of life by kidnapping them and dumping them on the opposite side of an imaginary border.

    You broke the speed limit on your drive to work. Maybe we should deport you.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Really? So you are totally fine with someone selling military secrets to our enemies? You think it's a political issue for us to prevent someone from providing Iran or North Korea with material and knowledge on how to create and deploy a nuclear weapon?

    Dude, you must be trolling, or a young college student that is listening to his liberal professors a little too much.
    Your premises are incorrect. I'm not fine with our country blowing trillions of dollars to build weapons that have little use than to **** with people. I think in the event that we don't waste such exorbitant sums of money we would be more prosperous and the people of NK or Iran might be more interested in our way of life. Instead we give an example to them, build up your military, **** off all your neighbors, and when someone dissents, put a bullet in their head.

    I'd rather be a liberal than a statist tool.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by d.moss View Post
    in actuality.. no man created land.. so how can we say who is allowed on any land.. all land should be open for anyone to come to at their will.. they'd still be subject to the laws of that land.. people should be able to migrate to wherever they choose!
    Count me in too. Coming to move into your house. In fact I am packing my stuff now, including my guns which I do have a permit for. After all I what to keep it legal.
    Sprint: 2-TouchPad 32g, Frank.-Pre-2, Pre-, MiFi & 1-LG Lotus with Xlink tied to home handsets. Backups: 650 & 700wx

    HP Please release the CDMA Pre3 phones!
    We want them!!!
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS View Post
    There have been many studies on this. Immigrants on the whole contribute far more tax dollars than they consumer.

    Your premise that dumb laws justify more dumb laws doesn't seem remotely rigorous. Regulation of the financial industry led to bubble and collapse, so we need more regulation. Right.
    OK, genius. Where in my posts, anywhere, did you see me suggest more laws or regulation. You clearly are still living in your mother's basement and haven't seen the world yet to be saying stupid things like that. The constitution provides for immigration, and I'm all for it. Our nation was built and became great because of the "melting pot" made possible by immigration.

    There is a huge difference between immigration according to the law, and illegal immigration. Immigration by those wanting to be law abiding citizens that contribute to and love this country are highly valuable. Those that circumvent the law are not.

    And I saw your other cr-ptastic comment about what people will do when they are desperate. Probably right, I might steal if I was desperate enough - and I would expect to suffer the consequences. Motive and need are not a valid defense from prosecution. They may mitigate some of the punishment, but they are no defense. Ignorance of the law is no defense either. You clearly have many years of school and life experiences ahead of you, and you are headed for some real surprises...
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS View Post
    Ahh yes the old murder argument. So a guy depriving someone of life by killing them justifies you depriving someone else of life by kidnapping them and dumping them on the opposite side of an imaginary border.

    You broke the speed limit on your drive to work. Maybe we should deport you.
    Wow youre a piece of work. I guess you dont think laws apply to you.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    Wow your a piece of work. I guess you dont think laws apply to you.
    Unjust laws absolutely don't apply to me.
  14. #74  
    This NathanS guy is clearly trolling. He hasn't even been a member of PreCentral for 30 days yet. He joined to troll, so we need to ignore him. And he is clearly still living at home, without prospects of an education, job, or girlfriend.

    Perfect candidate for the next person to go postal and shoot up a school.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS View Post
    Ahh yes the old murder argument. So a guy depriving someone of life by killing them justifies you depriving someone else of life by kidnapping them and dumping them on the opposite side of an imaginary border.
    You broke the speed limit on your drive to work. Maybe we should deport you.
    I am also:
    YES 100% on both counts. If they are not a legal citizen or have legal permission to be here.
    Nice to see that you are in agreement with the simplistic rules/laws of the land.
    Sprint: 2-TouchPad 32g, Frank.-Pre-2, Pre-, MiFi & 1-LG Lotus with Xlink tied to home handsets. Backups: 650 & 700wx

    HP Please release the CDMA Pre3 phones!
    We want them!!!
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS View Post
    Unjust laws absolutely don't apply to me.
    Unjust by your standards? What great knowledge/wisdom/experience gives you the ability to decide what laws are unjust or not?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanS View Post
    Unjust laws absolutely don't apply to me.
    And please list for us these "unjust" laws.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    OK, genius. Where in my posts, anywhere, did you see me suggest more laws or regulation. You clearly are still living in your mother's basement and haven't seen the world yet to be saying stupid things like that. The constitution provides for immigration, and I'm all for it. Our nation was built and became great because of the "melting pot" made possible by immigration.

    There is a huge difference between immigration according to the law, and illegal immigration. Immigration by those wanting to be law abiding citizens that contribute to and love this country are highly valuable. Those that circumvent the law are not.

    And I saw your other cr-ptastic comment about what people will do when they are desperate. Probably right, I might steal if I was desperate enough - and I would expect to suffer the consequences. Motive and need are not a valid defense from prosecution. They may mitigate some of the punishment, but they are no defense. Ignorance of the law is no defense either. You clearly have many years of school and life experiences ahead of you, and you are headed for some real surprises...
    Seriously you are a complete tool. Yea, I'm in college, great argument. You are old, dumb, and probably stuck in a job you hate that pushes you to argue with 20 somethings on the internet.

    The constitution is words on a piece of paper. It has no power unless enforced. Enforcement requires interpretation. Because it has been twisted to the bidding of dumb midwestern union rabblerousers like you who hate anyone with different colored skin does not constitute an argument.

    What if "highly valuable" people skipped the process and just came here? Wouldn't that be more valuable? Waste less money and time going through the process? What value does the process add?

    It doesn't add any. It's a great way for idiots like you to parrot economic fallacies that have been around for hundreds of years. You attempt to use a document designed to protect people from those like you for your own purposes.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    This NathanS guy is clearly trolling. He hasn't even been a member of PreCentral for 30 days yet. He joined to troll, so we need to ignore him. And he is clearly still living at home, without prospects of an education, job, or girlfriend.

    Perfect candidate for the next person to go postal and shoot up a school.
    Does PreCentral have anything about Trolls being non members. If not then the Admins should make and amendment. We should check. Then we could deport NathanS from PreCentral.
    Sprint: 2-TouchPad 32g, Frank.-Pre-2, Pre-, MiFi & 1-LG Lotus with Xlink tied to home handsets. Backups: 650 & 700wx

    HP Please release the CDMA Pre3 phones!
    We want them!!!
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    And please list for us these "unjust" laws.
    Taxation without representation comes to mind.
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