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  1. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    That's all I have for now, I'll try to find a transcript of that particular radio show as I heard the excerpt from it myself. Glenn Beck --> prince of the whack-a-moles.
    So, when A politician urges someone to "fight the good fight" or "defeat the Status Quo" or "Stick to your guns" or "target an opponent, or they have a "War Room" they are really urging people to violence?

    Have things really gotten THIS bad, that these amazing slaughters (oops, that's "violent!") of common sense are the DEFAULT tactic?

    I have to say I'm surprised at the direction this effort is taking you people. I didn't realize that things were this desperate, and panicked.

    I guess that recent denouncing of "fear mongering" isn't useful anymore, because that's what's going on here. You are trying very hard to drum up fear--fear of these protesters, so that people see them as a bunch of lunatics (like you've decided they are).

    I guess fear-mongering is alive and well amongst people on the left after all. That's just so interesting to note how quickly things turn around.

    How far are YOU going to take this, because make no mistake--you are inflaming this situation as well.

    KAM
  2. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Oh, this is precious! I just learned that Ann Coulter will be addressing the Tea Partiers (I'll reserve using the expression of "Tea Klanners" based on their behavior on Sat) in Nevada Sat as well as Palin! Schweet!
    Getting my pop-corn ready now!
    Don't you realize that you are basically sitting here admitting that you are LOOKING for opportunities to attack people? You're "getting your pop-corn"? It sounds to me like you are eagerly anticipating, and even hoping for these bad things (that you claim to condemn), to happen?

    What kind of person, HOPES that violence occurs? What kind of person HOPES for an opportunity to find an example of violence to smear those who are not violent?

    This is really, really beyond reasonable.

    KAM
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Don't you realize that you are basically sitting here admitting that you are LOOKING for opportunities to attack people? You're "getting your pop-corn"? It sounds to me like you are eagerly anticipating, and even hoping for these bad things (that you claim to condemn), to happen?
    Well, watching folks on the fringe act crazy, while disturbing, can be quite entertaining.

    Watching Coulter say things like Muslims should ride camels or flying carpets rather than airplanes is exactly the sort of racist hate-mongering that some people (not pointing fingers, mind you) will just point to as "another isolated incident", and not reflective of the movement. The fact that she was booked although she has a clear history of these statements, and her statements will be received with howls of laughter and applause from the crowd, certainly cannot be taken for acceptance of her views.
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  4. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Well, watching folks on the fringe act crazy, while disturbing, can be quite entertaining.
    Not to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Watching Coulter say things like Muslims should ride camels or flying carpets rather than airplanes is exactly the sort of racist hate-mongering that some people (not pointing fingers, mind you) will just point to as "another isolated incident", and not reflective of the movement. The fact that she was booked although she has a clear history of these statements, and her statements will be received with howls of laughter and applause from the crowd, certainly cannot be taken for acceptance of her views.
    She seems to enjoy this sort of mouthing off--something I've noticed is shared by many.

    KAM
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Sure, there are all sorts of organizers of various scale and scope. People are responsible for their own actions--what's so hard to understand about that?

    However, apparently the demands are working:
    FOXNews.com - Tea Party Leaders Condemn, Disown Threats Against Lawmakers

    KAM
    not hard to understand kam, just wanted it nice an clear.
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    WOW, amazing reversal, and really nonsensical statement. Somehow the victims of the ridicule are now responsible for it? Ridiculous.
    So now they are victims? They are not responsible for how they act in public? They are not responsible for how they are themselves, viewed in public? They have every right to stand out there with ignorant signs, and we have every right to mock them for it.

    The difference is that I'm not a neocon. If you're not a leftist, I apologize for mislabeling you.
    You have actually done this to me many times. Maybe, to avoid this in the future, you should just refrain from labeling all together.

    Neocon and leftist aren't pejoratives, the are labels. "Teabagger" is being used as a pejorative term, because it IS considered bizarre and perverted by the general public. Please don't pretend you're calling people this for any other reason.
    Again. Teabagger was originally adopted by the tea party. It is not our fault they did not know the alternate meaning.

    No, I didn't say that at all. In fact, MY point applies to everyone on all sides. That's what I'm saying--you CAN'T broad brush people. Well, YOU can, but I think its wrong.


    Your outrage is selective, and not needing to stretch back to the Bush Administration either. This nonsense is taking place on both sides currently, yet somehow we've got people conveniently ignoring the nonsense on their side, while screaming about it on the other.
    OK then, in the interest of fairness. Please site some recent liberal activities similar to those of the tea party's?
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

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  7. groovy's Avatar
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    #127  
    Stupak: Health fight has been 'living hell’ - TheHill.com

    Leading a revolt against President Barack Obama’s healthcare legislation over abortion has been a “living hell” for Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.).

    The telephone lines in his Washington and district offices have been “jammed” and he’s gotten more than 1,500 faxes and countless e-mails — most of which he says don’t come from his constituents.

    The fight has taken a toll on his wife, who has disconnected the phone in their home to avoid harassment.

    “All the phones are unplugged at our house — tired of the obscene calls and threats. She won’t watch TV,” Stupak said during an hourlong interview with The Hill in his Rayburn office. “People saying they’re going to spit on you and all this. That’s just not fun.”
    Well, now, that's interesting. I thought all the hate was supposed to be coming from the Republicans and the Tea Party. Seems there's enough hate to go around, eh?
  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Not to me.


    She seems to enjoy this sort of mouthing off--something I've noticed is shared by many.

    KAM
    yes she is ummm quite different, I am having a hard time understanding why she is going to take the Universty to the human rights commision here in canada, for explaining the the laws HERE IN CANADA. Which are a little different then in the US. But hey, she is trying for her 15 minutes of fame. And will do anything she can to extend that fame. lol
  9.    #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I don't like to admit this, but I don't actually get the cartoon. Maybe I'm as dumb as Davidre says I am. Would anyone care to explain it?

    And is that supposed to be Ann Coulter or Brittany Spears or Lindsey Lohan? And what is the significants of the donuts?

    Both sweet? Both have holes? What?
    Episode of Family Guy Lois works for Faux News:

    Lois: “I don't see the refrigerator”
    FOX Executive: “Oh we just use Ann Coulter”
    cut to guy looking between Coulter's legs and he says, "There's never anything good to eat in here".
  10.    #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Don't you realize that you are basically sitting here admitting that you are LOOKING for opportunities to attack people? You're "getting your pop-corn"? It sounds to me like you are eagerly anticipating, and even hoping for these bad things (that you claim to condemn), to happen?

    What kind of person, HOPES that violence occurs? What kind of person HOPES for an opportunity to find an example of violence to smear those who are not violent?

    This is really, really beyond reasonable.

    KAM
    Jeebus Kam, nice selective reading there, did I not say I would "reserve judgment"? (Palin always brings out the pop-corn, +1 with Coulter)

    And seriously, get off your high horse. This is what happens after not policing your own.
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    I guess that recent denouncing of "fear mongering" isn't useful anymore, because that's what's going on here. You are trying very hard to drum up fear--fear of these protesters, so that people see them as a bunch of lunatics (like you've decided they are).

    I guess fear-mongering is alive and well amongst people on the left after all. That's just so interesting to note how quickly things turn around.

    How far are YOU going to take this, because make no mistake--you are inflaming this situation as well.

    KAM
    Guess you just haven't been paying attention for the past year or so....signs like "We're unarmed....this time"...or
    "If Brown can't stop it, maybe Browning can". Or people showing up armed at Obama rallies. How quickly (and conveniently) they forget.



    Spend a little of your "valuable" time and you'll find many more examples of violent signs and attitudes at teabagger meetings. Haven't you seen them there yourself?
    Last edited by davidra; 03/26/2010 at 02:28 PM.
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    So, when A politician urges someone to "fight the good fight" or "defeat the Status Quo" or "Stick to your guns" or "target an opponent, or they have a "War Room" they are really urging people to violence?

    Have things really gotten THIS bad, that these amazing slaughters (oops, that's "violent!") of common sense are the DEFAULT tactic?

    I have to say I'm surprised at the direction this effort is taking you people. I didn't realize that things were this desperate, and panicked.

    I guess that recent denouncing of "fear mongering" isn't useful anymore, because that's what's going on here. You are trying very hard to drum up fear--fear of these protesters, so that people see them as a bunch of lunatics (like you've decided they are).

    I guess fear-mongering is alive and well amongst people on the left after all. That's just so interesting to note how quickly things turn around.

    How far are YOU going to take this, because make no mistake--you are inflaming this situation as well.

    KAM
    As a fellow conservative, I have to say you are barking up the wrong tree (sorry, that's the best non-violent expression I could think of).

    As I said previously, I haven't paid attention to the talking heads on cable for more than a year so I was a little behind on what teh Glen Becks or Rachel Maddows of the world are saying.

    However, I have to agree that his rhetoric is dangerous and inappropriate for someone with a prime-time national audience (I also thought that of Keith Oberman's "worste person of the world" that I'm sure gets shown at terrorist recruiting events...)

    Back when I heard Glen Beck broadcasting from Florida, he was funny and irreverent. He focused on exageration and parody. He was self depricating and readily admitted to being an *****.

    What I saw in the videos posted here is nothing like that. I don't think he is REALLY suggesting someone poison Pelosi, but he is tapping in to the fact that his audience is desparate for a way to stop the evil that she represents to them. This is not likely to motivate the next John Hinkley to violence, but it definitely fuels hate and a lack of civility.

    I think he has a right to say that stuff if he is doing the over night show for UFO chasers. Fox is crazy to let him do it on a prime-time show. Beck and Fox should realize that they are damaging the credibility of themselves and anyone that can be associated with them.

    Logical or not, they get lumped into the same category. Like it or not, there aren't any people in the Libertarian or Tea Party category that came from the democratic party. Far-left whackos join PETA and other crazy groups, for sure. But you aren't going to see Sean Penn or Susan Serandon taking their liberal views with them to join a movement because they don't like paying such high taxes... You might as well just acknowledge that and move on.

    All that to say, If I were ever to listen to Beck or pick up one of his books, it would be hard for me to not question any "facts" or characterizations of those he criticizes because he has demonstrated his willingness to make stuff up for shock value.

    And I don't think I could respect or listen to someone that thinks it's ok to talk about poisoning a leader or that he's like to hit someone with a shovel. Even if anyone ever thought something like that, it is dangerous and unacceptable to give voice to it.

    After all of these school shootings and zero-tollerance policies, they arrest students for making statements like that. If they put stuff like that in the papers they write, they are sent off for psychological evaluation.

    He may have the right to say that stuff, but he also has the right to the consequences. In a free market that means he has the right to lose my respect and or any dollars I might spend on books. He won't miss it, but that's how I direct where my dollars go.

    In summary, KAM, I think you are crazy to keep defending any of the people that have let their level of rhetoric rise and their sense of civility drop to the point I saw in those videos. I would not tollerate that sort of vitriol from my kids. I wouldn't have anything to do with neighbors that behaved like that, either. And that goes for Beck, Maddow, Oberman, Mathews, and the rest.

    I have never been comfortable with the ridicule and mocking that is so popular, even with Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and other more seasoned comentators. It's childish at best, and beneath rude coming from an intelligent adult.

    I support conservative positions, but I haven't found a person or party that seems to be able to communicate a position without embarassing me. I resent that. The left seems to have figured it out and kept their nutty fringe elements out of the news. Maybe that's a conspiracy with the left wing media, but I don't care. You can't blame the media for reporting stupid behavior, just like Tiger Woods can't blame the media for interviewing his bimbos. If he had behaved like a grown up, there wouldn't be any bimbos to interview. Period.

    Do I think the news goes out of it's way to find crazy people to show us, of course. They also film buildings that are on fire. I haven't seen much reporting on all the buildings that aren't burning or the dogs that don't attack a little kid. That's the nature of news, so we should keep that in our list of reasons not to behave like morons. And then hope that those morons will figure that out before they give any more amunition to liberals and moderates.

    Just my 2 cents worth.
  13. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    So now they are victims? They are not responsible for how they act in public? They are not responsible for how they are themselves, viewed in public? They have every right to stand out there with ignorant signs, and we have every right to mock them for it.
    I'm tired of your straw-distractions. People here are attacking innocent people that haven't done anything wrong, smearing them with the bad actions of others. This isn't hard to understand, and I'm sure you do understand it--you likely just don't care.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    You have actually done this to me many times. Maybe, to avoid this in the future, you should just refrain from labeling all together.
    Actually, I mostly use the term "leftist" to accurately describe people on the political left. Are you NOT on the political left? I'm not a huge fan of labels, but it is an effective (and accurate) shorthand. If you'd like to claim that you are a centrist or rightist please feel free.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Again. Teabagger was originally adopted by the tea party. It is not our fault they did not know the alternate meaning.
    So you say. Funny--I haven't seen these people calling themselves "Teabaggers." What--did some random person mention this, justifying your use of this term as a pejorative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Yes, I can see how issues like fairness and common decency are something to scoff at...for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    OK then, in the interest of fairness. Please site some recent liberal activities similar to those of the tea party's?
    Well, I'm not familiar with any liberal protests that are decidedly lawful and peaceful (if loud), with only a tiny percentage of bad-actors, but I'm sure they exist.

    KAM
  14. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Jeebus Kam, nice selective reading there, did I not say I would "reserve judgment"? (Palin always brings out the pop-corn, +1 with Coulter)

    And seriously, get off your high horse. This is what happens after not policing your own.
    You just can't help perpetuating the lie with this "police your own" nonsense. I do not police anyone. I do not have "my own" anything.

    Your original post makes it very clear that you aren't "reserving judgement" about anything. You've Judged these people (the vast majority of which are innocent of any wrongdoing) and attempted to define them in an unfavorable way.

    You're engaging in cheap propaganda, attacking these people with terms like "extreme", rabid, snarl, menace, and madness. Don't pretend like you are some casual observer "reserving judgment."

    KAM
  15.    #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    You just can't help perpetuating the lie with this "police your own" nonsense. I do not police anyone. I do not have "my own" anything.

    Your original post makes it very clear that you aren't "reserving judgement" about anything. You've Judged these people (the vast majority of which are innocent of any wrongdoing) and attempted to define them in an unfavorable way.

    You're engaging in cheap propaganda, attacking these people with terms like "extreme", rabid, snarl, menace, and madness. Don't pretend like you are some casual observer "reserving judgment."

    KAM
    They could prove me wrong on Sat. If they're smart they will as they know the media is going to focus on the event looking for whether they're still using their racist, violence threatening rhetoric or if they've learned a lesson and are now policing themselves. (And yes, smart organizations have rules of conduct for their members)
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Guess you just haven't been paying attention for the past year or so....signs like "We're unarmed....this time"...or
    "If Brown can't stop it, maybe Browning can". Or people showing up armed at Obama rallies. How quickly (and conveniently) they forget.



    Spend a little of your "valuable" time and you'll find many more examples of violent signs and attitudes at teabagger meetings. Haven't you seen them there yourself?
    Davidra, I have expressed my oposition to the signs, posters, and hateful chanting - so hang with me on this.

    I wonder about any difference here than what went on prior to the revolutionary war? I don't want to equivocate or make any comparisons as to the validity of the cause. I just wonder what they did, and if it would offend our sensibilities because we have become so comfortable with the idea of civil discourse that was made possible by that very revolution and the violence of that war. Do you think the original tea-party participants didn't make ethnic comments or express hatred of the British? They probably said some pretty nasty stuff.

    I honestly don't know what to do with that. I'm just bringing it up because it's one of those things that makes me say "hmmmmm" and hope my kids never ask me about that. I'd rather tell them where babies come from...

    Maybe we are so used to political correctness that we've lost our ability to tollerate passionate expression. I'm not condoning what they are doing, I'm just askin'...
  17. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    As a fellow conservative, I have to say you are barking up the wrong tree (sorry, that's the best non-violent expression I could think of).

    SNIP

    He may have the right to say that stuff, but he also has the right to the consequences. In a free market that means he has the right to lose my respect and or any dollars I might spend on books. He won't miss it, but that's how I direct where my dollars go.
    Well, given that I haven't spent time defending Beck, other than asking some questions related to others accusations, your entire analysis really doesn't apply well to anything I've been saying here.

    I'm questioning the tactics of people smearing people who haven't done a single thing wrong--that's it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    In summary, KAM, I think you are crazy to keep defending any of the people that have let their level of rhetoric rise and their sense of civility drop to the point I saw in those videos. I would not tollerate that sort of vitriol from my kids. I wouldn't have anything to do with neighbors that behaved like that, either. And that goes for Beck, Maddow, Oberman, Mathews, and the rest.
    I'm not sure what you are reading that makes you believe that I've defended anyone's "vitriol" at all. You're off base here. Perhaps you are listening to the people responding to things I didn't say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I have never been comfortable with the ridicule and mocking that is so popular, even with Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and other more seasoned comentators. It's childish at best, and beneath rude coming from an intelligent adult.
    Again--you are under the mistaken impression that I've been here defending these people. I've been pointing out the hypocrisy of those wailing about these people while happily accepting (or engaging in) it themselves--when it comes from their side of things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I support conservative positions, but I haven't found a person or party that seems to be able to communicate a position without embarassing me.
    I don't think you will find me quoting those folks--but of course, I'm accused of that anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Just my 2 cents worth.
    I appreciate the sentiment and I basically agree, but as I said--you aren't accurately representing what I've been saying here.

    In short--all I've been trying to do is stand up for a bit of common decency, NOT advocating or turning a blind eye to the actions of those who happen to agree with me on some point or another.

    It is also important to notice that this is again in RESPONSE to yet another of the same sort of attacks that are apparently very common on this forum. How many threads have there been that are basically just variations on a theme?

    If someone can't say that Guilt-by-association is wrong without having their words distorted--willfully or otherwise, what's the point? If the behavior exhibited here and in other places is to be selectively accepted, then I'm wasting my time. I would HOPE that decent people would understand this sort of stuff (which I HAVE NOT DEFENDED) is unacceptable--not just unacceptable with people you disagree with do it.

    KAM
  18. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Guess you just haven't been paying attention for the past year or so....signs like "We're unarmed....this time"...or
    "If Brown can't stop it, maybe Browning can". Or people showing up armed at Obama rallies. How quickly (and conveniently) they forget.

    Spend a little of your "valuable" time and you'll find many more examples of violent signs and attitudes at teabagger meetings. Haven't you seen them there yourself?
    Do you have a point? Have I supported this sort of thing? No, I haven't. And despite your cute little line there, I haven't attended any protests of any sort, and I've stated that clearly in the past.

    These sorts of things exist, and it isn't and never has been my cup of tea (no pun intended). Listening to 8 years of "Bush is ******" type of nonsense taught me what NOT to be. Unfortunately, people like you apparently are dedicated to projecting that behavior (which I have not engaged in) on me anyway. It's a demonstration of just how uninterested you are in any sort of honest discourse.

    Clearly my time isn't THAT valuable if I'm spending it here on people dedicated to pettiness.

    KAM
  19. Micael's Avatar
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    #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    They could prove me wrong on Sat. If they're smart they will as they know the media is going to focus on the event looking for whether they're still using their racist, violence threatening rhetoric or if they've learned a lesson and are now policing themselves. (And yes, smart organizations have rules of conduct for their members)
    If this isn't the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is... (not you personally, daThomas). Whoops. There I go with hyperbole again. Now I'm a racist, right?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    They could prove me wrong on Sat. If they're smart they will as they know the media is going to focus on the event looking for whether they're still using their racist, violence threatening rhetoric or if they've learned a lesson and are now policing themselves. (And yes, smart organizations have rules of conduct for their members)
    My guess is they will police there own, but the news cameras will find some nutty bunch a few blocks away and that's what will make the news.

    I also believe that the radical left might be motivated to dress up and pretend to be teabaggers while doing crazy stuff. It's happened before in our history.

    If memory serves (and it rarely does anymore) I thought that tactic played a part in our war with spain... or some war we fought before the age of mass media and communications.

    Anyway, I would love to see someone do an undercover investigation on that, like they did in exposing ACORN. I have to believe that both sides do stuff like that to discredit the other. It seems to easy for them to not add it to their list of dirty tricks.

    Anyway, I'm sure there will be enough moronic behavior to overshadow anything good that could come from this little stunt on saturday.

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