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  1. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    It's a little more than just that...

    Fox & Friends ' Carlson failed to disclose tea party organizer's GOP ties | Media Matters for America

    I know I will get flamed for this website link, but like you say, just because the site is biased does not make their content untrue, right?
    Nope, if it is true, it is true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    If this movement ever wants to be taken seriously by the left, they had better clean up their act. And yes, when it comes to a "movement," the actions of a few DOES reflect on the whole. Not all Klansman participated in lynchings, not all members of PETA spray red paint on furs...
    What makes you think being taken seriously by the left is a goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Is that the new tactic? Act naive? Birthers and Neocons have nothing but praise for Muslims?
    No, I'm simply not going to accept your accusations as if they are facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    But you act all appalled and surprised when us "leftists" call out you "neocons" on your hypocrisy...
    "You neocons." Yeah, ok.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Again, act naive. How is criticizing name calling, (teabaggers) while using name calling, (leftists) not hypocrisy?
    "Leftist" is name calling? Its a description of a position on a political spectrum. Yet you are equating this to calling someone a pervert.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    OK, You're right. I am sure few if any participate in "tea bagging." I will refer to them as something that they could very well be associated with, the Tea Klux Klan. Tea Klanners for short. Thanks, Kam, you have opened my eyes to the error of my ways.... HEY! Your name starts with a "K"!!! Klu Klux KAM??? Nah....
    I'll just let that speak for itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    When you throw bricks into senators offices, leave threatening messages and spew racist hate speech, I think the "propaganda campaign" is pretty well self inflicted.
    Those actions apply to the individuals who did those things, period, no one else. The practice of trying to blame others who DO NOT do those things is Propaganda. Perhaps, you think that guilt by association of people nominally connected by a loose grouping is reasonable. I do not. And AGAIN, you ignore that throughout this process and over the last Administration this exact same sort of nonsense was used by the left.

    Is it right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    What has the left been doing that makes you so sad?
    I guess I should be thankful you didn't accuse me of violent acts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Again, I have no problem with the protests themselves, just leave the ignorance, racism and violence at home. Have the Tea Klanners learned nothing from Dr. Martin Luther King? Oh yeah, they tend to not listen to men of his race...
    How about you leave the false accusations against people who did nothing wrong at home. How about you practice what you preach.

    "Tea Klanners" You're acting ridiculous, and demonstrating you are more than willing to throw your own fuel on the fire, while throwing around your accusations. This is hypocrisy plain and simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    WOW, Kam. Just wow. You criticize me when I bring up the Bush years yet you have no problem with it. You also seem to forget the "Freedom of Speech Zones" Bush had set up for those that did not agree with him to protest, which were always set up blocks away and fenced off...
    I don't grab some example of a bad action and use it to smear people that have nothing to do with it.

    You've done nothing more here than attempt to justify actions, DESIGNED to inflame, attack and proclaim whole groups of people guilty of actions they have nothing to do with.

    You criticize people you accuse of inciting others, by inciting others. Wow, you've accomplished so much. That's blatant hypocrisy. You're choosing to become exactly like the people you supposedly oppose--a participant in inflaming people with wild accusations.

    KAM
  2. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by GarrettQ View Post
    Doesnt matter what side you represent. Idiots are out there, and these clearly are some of them. I support the tea party movement for its initial cause, getting back to the framework our founders laid out. I dont agree with these posters any more than those on the left do, but these people dont represent the tea party movement as a whole, they are simply idiots.
    But that's the exact goal--to smear ALL Tea Party people claiming they DO represent the whole. That is literally what we've been seeing here, and elsewhere. Smear innocent people with the actions of a few, while ignoring that the same sort of bad actions occur on the other side as well.

    KAM
  3. Micael's Avatar
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    #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I don't fear Beck...just the folks crazy enough to take him seriously. And to listen to the violent racist undertones of his messages.
    Example?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Actually, the TP movement is less of a legitimate political movement and more of a flash mob.
    Well, I congratulate you for making a breakthrough in not calling these people "teabaggers."

    The Tea Party movement is somewhat of a "flash" but calling it a mob mischaracterizes it quite badly. There have been no "mob" actions, with people in large numbers out of control acting violently.

    Whether you think their political views are legitimate or not is another issue, and one of opinion.

    In reality--they are a bunch of individual Americans unhappy with what their government is doing, and they are voicing their opinion--the vast majority in a peaceful, lawful manner. For their trouble, they are being smeared as violent, racist, homophobic (I'm sure I'm missing a few slurs) mob.

    You don't have to agree with them, but they don't deserve the slander that has been heaped on them either. For those bad actors--great, call them out, but remember--those people represent themselves.

    Guilt by association projected on people that likely don't even know each other in many cases is an inherently dishonest practice.

    This is as vacant as blaming the Plane-Crash moron on Republicans or the Professor-Shooter on Obama.

    KAM
  5. Micael's Avatar
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    #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Of course. If a Pulitzer Prize-winning site known for fact-checking criticizes Beck, it instantly is judged as crap....can't say anything bad about Glenn.....
    I judged based on common sense. It doesn't take a pulitzer prize winner to figure out that single sentences stripped out of conversations lose context and are subject to misinterpretation. And the fact that a bunch of liberal academics like that site enough to give it a prize isn't that impressive to me.

    And I can say plenty that I don't like about Glenn. He's way over the top with the melodrama, imho. That doesn't make him a racist, or a liar, or dangerous.
    Unfortunately, they're all related. I thought you Beck fans were all about "seeing the connections".
    Who said I'm a Beck fan?
    Is the "one per posting" an official request as an "impartial moderator"?
    Ok, now you're getting silly.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. Micael's Avatar
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    #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK, $those$ $morons$ $weren$'$t$ $elected$ $to$ $public$ $office$, $or$ $on$ $mainstream$ $TV$ $inciting$ $violence$....$or$ $both$.
    Ok, there's another unfounded accusation. Put up or shut up, Bujin. When did Beck incite violence? I want full context of what he said too.

    Either cough it up, or drop it.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  7. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Ok, there's another unfounded accusation. Put up or shut up, Bujin. When did Beck incite violence? I want full context of what he said too.

    Either cough it up, or drop it.
    But why, when the accusation itself is so valuable? It doesn't matter if he said it, didn't say it, it was taken out of context. Why bother with truth when a lie or distortion will do just the same.

    My point isn't to say that everything MUST be a lie (some accusations may be true), but that seems to be a secondary concern...if at all.

    That's why you are seeing such a vigorous defense of guilt-by-association--it is NECESSARY to them. Or at least that's what the actions/posts I'm seeing indicate to me.

    KAM
  8. #88  
    I don't know. When you see the pics like what Bujin posted, it makes me question how dangerous some can be (either side). The racists hicks in these pics are a dangerous bunch.

    Knowing how dangerous some can be in 'fighting' their cause, Why in the world would Palin post this?
    Just call me Berd.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    What makes you think being taken seriously by the left is a goal.
    So they are happy being cannon fodder for "leftist" ridicule? that is their master plan?

    No, I'm simply not going to accept your accusations as if they are facts.
    Of course you're not...

    "You neocons." Yeah, ok.
    If you feel like labeling me a "leftist", you should have no problem with your "neocon" moniker...

    "Leftist" is name calling? Its a description of a position on a political spectrum. Yet you are equating this to calling someone a pervert.
    Yes, "leftist" is a term used by "neocons" to label those who oppose them. It is not as pure and innocent as you would like to believe. As far as teabagging being considered "perverted", who is to judge what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom?

    Those actions apply to the individuals who did those things, period, no one else. The practice of trying to blame others who DO NOT do those things is Propaganda. Perhaps, you think that guilt by association of people nominally connected by a loose grouping is reasonable. I do not. And AGAIN, you ignore that throughout this process and over the last Administration this exact same sort of nonsense was used by the left.
    LMAO So a few teabaggers act up and it does not represent the whole movement, BUT, an even fewer number of the left act up during the Bush years, not even near the same level, and ALL of the left is bad????

    Is it right or wrong?
    It is not right when ANYONE acts out like this. Please point out where I have defended any civil disobedience.

    I guess I should be thankful you didn't accuse me of violent acts.
    The night is young...

    How about you leave the false accusations against people who did nothing wrong at home. How about you practice what you preach.
    Unlike you and the "Tea Klanners", I fully understand that my posting here sets me up for debate, ridicule and whatever else may come my way. I am more then comfortable with that.

    "Tea Klanners" You're acting ridiculous, and demonstrating you are more than willing to throw your own fuel on the fire, while throwing around your accusations. This is hypocrisy plain and simple.

    I don't grab some example of a bad action and use it to smear people that have nothing to do with it.

    You've done nothing more here than attempt to justify actions, DESIGNED to inflame, attack and proclaim whole groups of people guilty of actions they have nothing to do with.

    You criticize people you accuse of inciting others, by inciting others. Wow, you've accomplished so much. That's blatant hypocrisy. You're choosing to become exactly like the people you supposedly oppose--a participant in inflaming people with wild accusations.

    KAM
    And now you see how your posts about this subject come off. Was I a little more extreme than you? Sure. I did it to make a point. I hope you have learned something here... but I doubt it.
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  10. groovy's Avatar
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    #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by GarrettQ View Post
    Doesnt matter what side you represent. Idiots are out there, and these clearly are some of them. I support the tea party movement for its initial cause, getting back to the framework our founders laid out. I dont agree with these posters any more than those on the left do, but these people dont represent the tea party movement as a whole, they are simply idiots.

    to be fair, i could easily google tons of photos of the same sort of imagery against Bush.
    Such is the nature of anecdotal evidence. It says a lot but proves nothing.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that. Let me state it out right, the TP rose in numbers due to Faux News.



    That's a quaint view but I don't buy it. I'll give you the (conservative) radio shows though.

    The Republican leadership has got to get a handle on this beasty.
    I always find it so amusing how liberals call fox news "faux" news, as if their own liberal leaning news channels are the bastions of truth, "fact" reporting without political spin whatsoever in comparison. Lefties are hooked on their liberal coolaid newscaster/comics and refuse to believe that ANYTHING reported on such programs could possibly be untrue.

    Only fox news lies, right?


    Absurd.
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Such is the nature of anecdotal evidence. It says a lot but proves nothing.
    The whack-a-mole behavior liberals call the tea party movement could just as readily be found within YOUR leftwing protests during the Bush administration.

    Its only when such protests conflict with YOUR liberal agenda that it becomes "extremist"

    I thought your party along with the ridiculous ACLU were tireless defenders of freedom of speech and expression! Were and are you not?! After all, being products of the flower child sixty's and seventies decades, I would think you would be perfectly at home with allowing protests to be heard.


    YOU did it while protesting the Vietnam war, the Gulf war, the Iraq war and the war in Afghanistan.

    Where are your convictions about freedom of speech and expression NOW?

    Not cool if people are against your agenda, huh?

    Hypocrit, thy name is democrat.
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Well, I congratulate you for making a breakthrough in not calling these people "teabaggers."

    The Tea Party movement is somewhat of a "flash" but calling it a mob mischaracterizes it quite badly. There have been no "mob" actions, with people in large numbers out of control acting violently.

    Whether you think their political views are legitimate or not is another issue, and one of opinion.

    In reality--they are a bunch of individual Americans unhappy with what their government is doing, and they are voicing their opinion--the vast majority in a peaceful, lawful manner. For their trouble, they are being smeared as violent, racist, homophobic (I'm sure I'm missing a few slurs) mob.

    You don't have to agree with them, but they don't deserve the slander that has been heaped on them either. For those bad actors--great, call them out, but remember--those people represent themselves.

    Guilt by association projected on people that likely don't even know each other in many cases is an inherently dishonest practice.

    This is as vacant as blaming the Plane-Crash moron on Republicans or the Professor-Shooter on Obama.

    KAM
    So the crux of what your saying Kam is, the tea group, notice i did not call them tea baggers or the tea party, are a movement of individuals? Who are only responsible for their actions on a case by case basis.
    That the call to arms, or the use of the n word, the threats of violence, etc etc, are only to be blamed on the person who uttered them or made the overt threat.

    Hmmm, so there are no county, state, or national organizers, these people are spontaneously showing up at a given site.
  14. #94  
    Someone said Beck is just a commentator. hmmm ok,
    Back a few years ago, there was a person who was extremely charismatic, an orator with out equal, this person was listened to around the world. Many of a lot of nations flocked to hear and see this person. This person spoke of what was then considered to be evils of the world as this person saw it. This person woke the passion of the country, railed against perceived injustices perpetrated on the country and the people. Any guesses yet?

    This person who spoke so eloquently, fired up the people, who went out and did what was perceived to be this persons bidding. Eventually this person was the leader of the country. Again through, this person's charismatic speeches, much good was done in the country. Followed by and incredible amount of murder and destruction.


    yup and this person was JUST a lousy artist too.
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Ok, there's another unfounded accusation. Put up or shut up, Bujin. When did Beck incite violence? I want full context of what he said too.

    Either cough it up, or drop it.
    May be in the eye of the beholder, but I would say this comes pretty close.

    "Why do you think they are needling and poking and prodding all the time? Why do you think they slap you down on health care and just as you're getting up they punch you in the face with immigration? Why do you think they're being so divisive? [...] They need you to be estranged from them. They need you to pick up a gun or a bomb. They need you to break the law."

    "What the hell do you have to do to these people to get them to kill us?"




    Daily Kos: State of the Nation
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    The whack-a-mole behavior liberals call the tea party movement could just as readily be found within YOUR leftwing protests during the Bush administration.

    Its only when such protests conflict with YOUR liberal agenda that it becomes "extremist"

    I thought your party along with the ridiculous ACLU were tireless defenders of freedom of speech and expression! Were and are you not?! After all, being products of the flower child sixty's and seventies decades, I would think you would be perfectly at home with allowing protests to be heard.


    YOU did it while protesting the Vietnam war, the Gulf war, the Iraq war and the war in Afghanistan.

    Where are your convictions about freedom of speech and expression NOW?

    Not cool if people are against your agenda, huh?

    Hypocrit, thy name is democrat.
    Really? Did you see a lot of the lefties packing heat in places where Bush was speaking? Lots of liberals calling for their minions to go out and break windows in republican local offices? Any hateful comments about Bush being a white man? Tell me, did they send massive numbers of cretins to hang out at Haster's house, or Gingrich's house?

    You can justify racism and violence all you want. Unless you want to go back to the Weather Underground or the SLA, you're wasting your time saying the teabaggers are just about freedom of speech and are comparable to the left wing. They are not. They're about yelling fire in the theater.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I judged based on common sense. It doesn't take a pulitzer prize winner to figure out that single sentences stripped out of conversations lose context and are subject to misinterpretation. And the fact that a bunch of liberal academics like that site enough to give it a prize isn't that impressive to me.
    Of course, now Politifact is a liberal site, because they dare to criticize the right. Do you have any data to back up that charge, or is calling Beck out on his lies sufficient evidence that they can't be impartial.

    As you say, put up or shut up.

    And I can say plenty that I don't like about Glenn. He's way over the top with the melodrama, imho. That doesn't make him a racist, or a liar, or dangerous.
    His statements themselves do that. I know it's okay in your book that he compare the administration to n@zism, to say that the president hates white people and "white culture",to talk about revolution, to state that Pelosi is trying to get people to kill her. Of course that wouldn't incite anything with the fringe.

    Right now, he's the voice of the right...if he's the best the right has, that says a lot. Personally, I would be much more supportive of the right if they didn't alienate Powell, McCain, and others as being "not Republican enough".
    Last edited by Bujin; 03/26/2010 at 07:05 AM.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Put up or shut up, Bujin. When did Beck incite violence? I want full context of what he said too.
    See prior posts, particularly about Pelosi trying to get the Tea Party to kill her.

    Either cough it up, or drop it.
    When someone in a position as a moderator tells posters to "shut up" or "drop it", IMO that is abusing their perceived authority as a mod. Feel free to disagree with me, but please don't tell me what I can or can't post unless I'm breaking a rule.

    Thanks!
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Really? Did you see a lot of the lefties packing heat in places where Bush was speaking?
    They weren't allowed anywhere near where Bush was speaking...they had to stay in their "free speech zones", far from Bush. Can you imagine Obama doing that...they'd all say he was putting them in FEMA's concentration camps.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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