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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Other than the naughty word, exactly what is troubling to you about this?
    When people discuss "wiping them out" and that they're destroying America, you honestly can't see how that incites people? When he has recently stated "We are at war with our own President, we are at war with our own government."



    Exactly, what are you claiming is a "violent statement" by Beck or Limbaugh? I heard Beck on the way home today on the Radio, and he specifically was talking about Peaceful methods--calling for people to follow the model of MLK and Ghandi. That stands in direct contrast to what you seem to be claiming.

    KAM
    So he didn't say that Pelosi was thinking "what do we have to do to make them kill us?" And that isn't violent?
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  2. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    You mean propaganda like this, used by racists and hatemongers:
    Yes--that too is propaganda, but Wow...big surprise, you didn't happen to post any Leftist Propaganda signs.

    Did a quick search--want some?

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sh...reatening-bush

    Now, if I followed the "reasoning" of the leftists here, I'd say that all Environmentalists and Anti-War Protesters were inciting violence against the President.

    Let me give another demonstration. I heard a report today that Eric Cantor (who I learned is Jewish) had his office shot at. If I followed a similar sort of propaganda route, I'd say that this is a clear display of Anti-semitism by leftist/democrats riled up by President Obama in his call to fight for Health care reform and inspired by his anti-Israeli stance. PLUS, the hate people with Glasses.

    Of course that is nonsense. It's the result of some whack-job and NOT the fault of President Obama at all. Unfortunately, some of those on the left, apparently lack any such ability to avoid this sort of hyperbole.

    I see no need for people--ANYONE to engage in this sort of nonsense, yet that's exactly what I'm seeing.

    KAM
    Last edited by KAM1138; 03/25/2010 at 09:27 PM.
  3. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    When people discuss "wiping them out" and that they're destroying America, you honestly can't see how that incites people?
    Was he talking about harming them or defeating them politically? Did you actually hear this, or are you just reading someone's commentary on it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    So he didn't say that Pelosi was thinking "what do we have to do to make them kill us?" And that isn't violent?
    I have no idea what the context of that line is, or what was said around it. My question is why would someone recommend that people follow the example of Ghandi if he was intending to incite violence?

    KAM
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Was he talking about harming them or defeating them politically? Did you actually hear this, or are you just reading someone's commentary on it?
    Both. I read it, and then found it online. He doesn't state what he means specifically, and that's the point. Palin doesn't say to shoot anyone, but says "don't retreat....reload" and puts gun target graphics on the map of their districts. Beck says that line about Pelosi trying to get people to kill her, which the crazies can then take as justification to actually carry it out.

    They continually talk about how the country is being destroyed, it's the end of freedom, and country will be turned into n@zism / communism / socialism. Then say that they didn't really mean to be violent.

    I'll never convince you about the dangers of this sort of imagery, as you seem determined to defend them. Instead, it's all part of the leftist propaganda conspiracy...even as racist / violent imagery becomes more and more common, violence is threatened against congressmen, people spitting on legislators and calling them racial epithets.

    The angrier and more irrational the viewers get, the more they watch. Beck and Co. don't necessarily want violence...they just want viewers, and the violence is just a potential byproduct.
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  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by yepyep123 View Post

    -Republicans peeling off of the "no to everything" left and right.
    Hopefully, more reasonable heads will start to prevail.
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  6. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Both. I read it, and then found it online. He doesn't state what he means specifically, and that's the point. Palin doesn't say to shoot anyone, but says "don't retreat....reload" and puts gun target graphics on the map of their districts. Beck says that line about Pelosi trying to get people to kill her, which the crazies can then take as justification to actually carry it out.
    Can you point me to some youtube or something of this line of Beck's you keep referring to.

    Do you literally think that Palin is encouraging people to shoot people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    They continually talk about how the country is being destroyed, it's the end of freedom, and country will be turned into n@zism / communism / socialism. Then say that they didn't really mean to be violent.
    And exactly how is this any different from what leftists said about Bush for 8 years? Excepting of course they focused on the ****/fascist label. I seem to recall that Bush was continually called a War Criminal, and as you saw in that link--violence against the former President was quite specific.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I'll never convince you about the dangers of this sort of imagery, as you seem determined to defend them.
    No, I haven't defended anyone--I've questioned the accuracy of YOUR accusations (of those like you) and why you seem content to ignore the exact same sort of thing, when it comes from leftists.

    You can't turn a blind eye to it on one hand, but create a panic over it on the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Instead, it's all part of the leftist propaganda conspiracy...even as racist / violent imagery becomes more and more common, violence is threatened against congressmen, people spitting on legislators and calling them racial epithets.
    No, the exploitation of this, projecting it on the majority of people who are NOT engaging in this sort of behavior is propaganda. That's exactly what I see going on here regularly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    The angrier and more irrational the viewers get, the more they watch. Beck and Co. don't necessarily want violence...they just want viewers, and the violence is just a potential byproduct.
    How do 'Beck and Co' differ from 'Olberman and Co.' This guy who names people the "worst person in the world" is constructive?

    Here's the point--if you're against this stuff, you can't ignore it when people nominally on your "side" do it, while actively accusing those you disagree with. Note, I don't try to say you are guilty of what they are. I don't say you are DEFENDING what they are doing.

    Unfortunately, that's exactly what you've done to me. You've accused me of defending the bad actions of the few (which I haven't), for questioning the fairness of those engaging in very blatant guilt-by-association tactics.

    KAM
  7. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by yepyep123 View Post
    A lot of cracks starting to penetrate the republican armor.

    -Mitt Romney's VIDEO of him stating how much he like his state's healthcare individual mandate. And a national one! ...for those of you that dont know, he now says it is unconstitutional and wants to repeal it. He passed it in his own state!
    You do realize that the restrictions on the Federal Government and the individual States aren't the same right?

    KAM
  8. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by yepyep123 View Post
    You must have missed the part where I said he is selling the idea of a national mandate too....as a good thing!
    I'm not trying to defend Romney's inconsistency, I'm stating the fact that the Federal Government has restrictions that States do not. If that not relevant to your point, I apologize.

    While I wouldn't cheer anyone for inconsistency, being wrong in the past isn't justification for being wrong today.

    KAM
  9. #69  
    So is there an application you fill out to join the Tea Party? I went to a Tea Party rally here in Charleston last summer, does that make me a member? Is there a secret handshake I should have been told about or something like that?
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    #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    If their distorted view of the government (n@zi, death panels, concentration camps by FEMA) is a result of FoxNews lying in the name of "getting the word out", then Fox is responsible. When Beck can say that Pelosi is thinking "what do we have to do to get them to kill us?", I don't know how you can say that they bear no responsibility.
    It's obvious from your words that you don't even know who they are, much less what they actually think. And Beck is a commentator. I don't think he's much for you to fear.

    BTW, that link is old news and you used it long before in the slam beck thread. It's total crap. A list of short soundbytes taken out of context, and of those only a couple could they claim as false. Whatever, Bujin. Three different topics. Beck, Fox News, and the TP. Pick one per posting please... I think you're getting confused about who represents what. They really are all different things, seriously.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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    #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    You mean propaganda like this, used by racists and hatemongers:
    Where were you when the morons of the left came out of the woodwork when Bush was in office? Cheering them on I suppose?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    It's obvious from your words that you don't even know who they are, much less what they actually think. And Beck is a commentator. I don't think he's much for you to fear.
    I don't fear Beck...just the folks crazy enough to take him seriously. And to listen to the violent racist undertones of his messages.

    BTW, that link is old news and you used it long before in the slam beck thread. It's total crap. A list of short soundbytes taken out of context, and of those only a couple could they claim as false.
    Of course. If a Pulitzer Prize-winning site known for fact-checking criticizes Beck, it instantly is judged as crap....can't say anything bad about Glenn.....

    If you read the link, they aren't taking out of context...they claim very cogently why he's lying.

    Whatever, Bujin. Three different topics. Beck, Fox News, and the TP. Pick one per posting please... I think you're getting confused about who represents what. They really are all different things, seriously.
    Unfortunately, they're all related. I thought you Beck fans were all about "seeing the connections".

    Is the "one per posting" an official request as an "impartial moderator"?
    Last edited by Bujin; 03/25/2010 at 10:34 PM.
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  13. #73  
    To be fair to the more conservative leaning people here, they are probably quite correct in the assertion that the Teabag group is a movement. A movement can be described as a group of individuals who for a myriad of reasons band together in a cause. The fact that it is likely that many were staunch Republican voters is not the point. But a movement of individuals has a fatal flaw. They tend to split into smaller and smaller groups as different goals are reached or introduced. Extremist elements, also tend to split into smaller groups as well. Individuals within a movement will find that an associated group is diverging from what they want. The movement fractures and eventually breaks down.
    Will this happen, probably, it will depend on targeted goals of the movement.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Where were you when the morons of the left came out of the woodwork when Bush was in office? Cheering them on I suppose?
    AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK, $those$ $morons$ $weren$'$t$ $elected$ $to$ $public$ $office$, $or$ $on$ $mainstream$ $TV$ $inciting$ $violence$....$or$ $both$.
    Last edited by Bujin; 03/25/2010 at 10:36 PM.
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  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Supporter...meaning they have some similar goals?
    It's a little more than just that...

    Fox & Friends ' Carlson failed to disclose tea party organizer's GOP ties | Media Matters for America

    I know I will get flamed for this website link, but like you say, just because the site is biased does not make their content untrue, right?

    Well, I would prefer that people encourage good behavior in others, but it seems to me that you and others are trying to hold individuals responsible for the behavior of others and that really isn't something they can control.
    If this movement ever wants to be taken seriously by the left, they had better clean up their act. And yes, when it comes to a "movement," the actions of a few DOES reflect on the whole. Not all Klansman participated in lynchings, not all members of PETA spray red paint on furs...

    I'm not sure what accusation you are referring to.
    Is that the new tactic? Act naive? Birthers and Neocons have nothing but praise for Muslims?

    No, I make it very clear what I like or do not like about Leftists. I don't hide behind fake concern.
    But you act all appalled and surprised when us "leftists" call out you "neocons" on your hypocrisy...

    What hypocrisy are you referring to? You have to be specific if you are going to make accusations.
    Again, act naive. How is criticizing name calling, (teabaggers) while using name calling, (leftists) not hypocrisy?

    As far as "tea-bagger" you know very well what this term means, and are choosing to use it as a pejorative. To hide behind some justification is a bit dishonest I think.
    OK, You're right. I am sure few if any participate in "tea bagging." I will refer to them as something that they could very well be associated with, the Tea Klux Klan. Tea Klanners for short. Thanks, Kam, you have opened my eyes to the error of my ways.... HEY! Your name starts with a "K"!!! Klu Klux KAM??? Nah....

    Again...What? I'm not sure if you think that it is relevant to add an accusation on top of another accusation and pretend it equals validity.


    No, some (perhaps you) are creating a propaganda campaign to smear these people with the methods I described above. I note that I've heard a distinct lack of "concern" of condemnation of bad behavior of those on the left--its happening too, but SOMEHOW only protesters from the RIGHT are a problem. Hmmmm.
    When you throw bricks into senators offices, leave threatening messages and spew racist hate speech, I think the "propaganda campaign" is pretty well self inflicted.

    What has the left been doing that makes you so sad?

    Well, I agree with that, I just find it strange that "dissent" is such a glorious virtue when the left does it, but its a call to violence and target for intimidation when those on the right do it. They're digging in the leftists' ditch I know.
    Again, I have no problem with the protests themselves, just leave the ignorance, racism and violence at home. Have the Tea Klanners learned nothing from Dr. Martin Luther King? Oh yeah, they tend to not listen to men of his race...

    Well, they aren't actually silencing them. They would LIKE to silence them I think, which is what these intimidation tactics are aimed at--my opinion. It is also interesting to note that during the 8 years of vigorous Bush-bashing that all along, the leftists cried about how their "dissent" was being suppressed. I think the leftist propaganda machine is a bit more subtle than this. Rather they are engaging in smear tactics, attempting to create an image that people will shy away from, because no one wants to be associated with something bad. That's why leftist propagandists are working so hard to project the image of violence and racism, etc on this whole group of people, despite the fact that this is not representative of the vast majority of these people.
    WOW, Kam. Just wow. You criticize me when I bring up the Bush years yet you have no problem with it. You also seem to forget the "Freedom of Speech Zones" Bush had set up for those that did not agree with him to protest, which were always set up blocks away and fenced off...

    Free speech zone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Well, yeah, I see it here daily.
    So you DO actually read what you post!!!

    No. Wait, yes....nope, I have never heard of denial.

    KAM
    Yeah, I didn't think so....
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  16.    #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    As I said above--this isn't a literal attempt to "silence" these people--rather it is a concerted effort (as evidenced by the constant drumbeat that you are all following faithfully) to disparage these people in any way you can, using any tool available, from guilt by association (a mainstay) to outright fabrications repeated endlessly.

    It's classic propaganda--the same sort of caricatures used by racists, and hate mongers of various sorts throughout history. These propagandists CREATE a distorted image that they can attack and then point to the intended target and say "That's them, that's them."

    As I said--its really transparent.

    KAM

    Actually, the TP movement is less of a legitimate political movement and more of a flash mob.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    Considering their nasty actions over the last few days, I'm very comfortable calling Tea Baggers racists and homophobes.

    They really revealed their true colors.
    No, that was just the story that the media was running.

    Itís time for the allegedly pristine character of Rep. John Lewis to put up or shut up. Therefore, I am offering $10,000 of my own money to provide hard evidence that the N- word was hurled at him not 15 times, as his colleague reported, but just once. Surely one of those two cameras wielded by members of his entourage will prove his point.

    And surely if those cameras did not capture such abhorrence, then someone from the mainstream media ó those who printed and broadcast his assertions without any reasonable questioning or investigation ó must themselves surely have it on camera. Of course we already know they donít. If they did, youíd have seen it by now.

    THOUSANDS OF TIMES.

    Rep. Lewis, if you canít do that, Iíll give him a backup plan: a lie detector test. If you provide verifiable video evidence showing that a single racist epithet was hurled as you walked among the tea partiers, or you pass a simple lie detector test, I will provide a $10K check to the United Negro College Fund.

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    A friend of mine that works in the Capital Hill building had made the comment on Monday, that for all the video cameras at that protest, nothing had surfaced to support the Representatives' claim.
  18. #78  
    can i make a suggestion to the people who believe you are all individuals? that you should pull yourself up by your boot straps! how about this, if your not prepared to help your fellow americans, then some of your fellow americans may help themselves to what you have.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrminer92 View Post
    No, that was just the story that the media was running.
    Yes, that was just the story that the media was running about what Teabaggers were doing.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    You mean propaganda like this, used by racists and hatemongers:






    Doesnt matter what side you represent. Idiots are out there, and these clearly are some of them. I support the tea party movement for its initial cause, getting back to the framework our founders laid out. I dont agree with these posters any more than those on the left do, but these people dont represent the tea party movement as a whole, they are simply idiots.

    to be fair, i could easily google tons of photos of the same sort of imagery against Bush.
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