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  1.    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    The TP was its own movement. You seem to be implying that they rose because of the effort of FNC.
    I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that. Let me state it out right, the TP rose in numbers due to Faux News.

    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    The TP used facebook, twitter, blogs, call ins to radio shows, new articles, to get the word out. Trying to paint fox as the marketing arm is fantasy. They're just the only network that paid them any mind that wasn't insulting or demeaning.
    That's a quaint view but I don't buy it. I'll give you the (conservative) radio shows though.

    The Republican leadership has got to get a handle on this beasty.
  2. #42  
    I think the person is making a valid point. Look at the scar the Klu Klux Klan left on the south. It has always been identified as a racist region of our country.

    The tea party has a very good chance of greatly damaging the republican party. The GOP leadership that are stirring this pot might be unleashing hell on the nation if they are not careful.
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that. Let me state it out right, the TP rose in numbers due to Faux News.



    That's a quaint view but I don't buy it. I'll give you the (conservative) radio shows though.

    The Republican leadership has got to get a handle on this beasty.
    meh... I'm not so sure. I'm thinking the Republicans need to rethink things a bit. I'm a bit tired of politics as usual... principles be damned. I'd vote for a Democrat if he stuck to his values and principles and he was running against a Republican who shifted with the tides.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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    #44  
    So does anyone agree that the tea party is gone, hijacked? It started about the constitution. I'm not sure what to call it anymore. Certainly no one talks about secure borders, in the tea party. As long as both sides can make the other look ugly, they will take the illegal immigrant vote. Is there a light at the end of the tunnel? Will a third party ever make a true stand? Or shall we say NWO!!
  5. Micael's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by kc_exactly View Post
    I think the person is making a valid point. Look at the scar the Klu Klux Klan left on the south. It has always been identified as a racist region of our country.

    The tea party has a very good chance of greatly damaging the republican party. The GOP leadership that are stirring this pot might be unleashing hell on the nation if they are not careful.
    Your example isn't exactly true. Check out Indiana and the KKK some time. People associate it with the south because of the media and movies. There's plenty of bigots all around, believe.

    I agree with your second point, in part. I'm not sure what you mean by the GOP leadership stirring this pot.... you seem to be implying they control the Tea Party? Please clarify.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. Micael's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattlport View Post
    So does anyone agree that the tea party is gone, hijacked? It started about the constitution. I'm not sure what to call it anymore. Certainly no one talks about secure borders, in the tea party. As long as both sides can make the other look ugly, they will take the illegal immigrant vote. Is there a light at the end of the tunnel? Will a third party ever make a true stand? Or shall we say NWO!!
    NWO? And I've never considered the Tea Party as a viable third party. Nor do I think that's been their goal. I think they're more about focusing grass roots efforts around local elections to, like you indicated, make sure constitutionalists are elected.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  7.    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    meh... I'm not so sure. I'm thinking the Republicans need to rethink things a bit. I'm a bit tired of politics as usual... principles be damned. I'd vote for a Democrat if he stuck to his values and principles and he was running against a Republican who shifted with the tides.
    I think you're very correct (as is the person above who already mentioned it), when Bush and Republican lead congress spent like lunatics some fiscal republicans got turned off.
  8.    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattlport View Post
    So does anyone agree that the tea party is gone, hijacked? It started about the constitution. I'm not sure what to call it anymore. Certainly no one talks about secure borders, in the tea party. As long as both sides can make the other look ugly, they will take the illegal immigrant vote. Is there a light at the end of the tunnel? Will a third party ever make a true stand? Or shall we say NWO!!
    I'll say it "NWO!"


    Oh I think you'll see the TP set it's focus on Illegal Immigration, I always see a few signs regarding it and many last weekend were trying to tie the health care bill to free health care for illegals.

    As a labor Democrat I am highly opposed to illegal labor and support strongly the jailing of business owners who employ them.
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    #49  
    The Republicans will try to smear the Democrat over this bill. Doesn't mater, yes they will have senate and house back in two years. Then A Real Shiny George Bush this time around, like a 2.0 George bush. Like you said the republican party will try to smear even the constitutionalists. Even Ron Paul. Yes I typed Ron Paul. Think He Created the real tea party in 93, then got kinda booted out lately. Perhaps someone like him will work...
  10. #50  
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    The Republican leadership has got to get a handle on this beasty.
    When Glenn Beck says incendiary things like "I can guarantee you [Pelosi and Reid] walked out and said, 'What the hell do you have to do to these people to get them to kill us?'", it's hard to see how they can get a handle on it.

    Of course, if their attempts to get a handle on it include targeting districts with gun sight graphics, telling followers to "reload", get "armed and dangerous", stating that other congressman "may be a dead man", it certainly doesn't create imagery that would tamp down on it.
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  12. Micael's Avatar
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    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that. Let me state it out right, the TP rose in numbers due to Faux News.

    That's a quaint view but I don't buy it. I'll give you the (conservative) radio shows though.
    Didn't ask you to buy it. It's fact though. A little checking and you could confirm very easily. Certainly fox helped get the word out. But that was after the fact. If any entity is responsible, it the government.
    The Republican leadership has got to get a handle on this beasty.
    They need to get a grip on themselves, true. But they don't pull the TP strings.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  13. KAM1138
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    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Maybe not "creator" but definitely "supporter"
    Supporter...meaning they have some similar goals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    So they can collectively agree to meet and stage their protest, but it is unfair to assume that they would ask their own to behave like grown adults?
    Well, I would prefer that people encourage good behavior in others, but it seems to me that you and others are trying to hold individuals responsible for the behavior of others and that really isn't something they can control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Kind of like what they do with all of the anti Muslim hate speach. Blame them all for what only a few have done...
    I'm not sure what accusation you are referring to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Kind of like you with you bashing of all things "leftist?" I guess you only throw Nerf stones in you glass house.
    No, I make it very clear what I like or do not like about Leftists. I don't hide behind fake concern.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    The hypocrisy in this statement of your is mind boggling. As for the "Tea Bagging" moniker, they came up with it. It is not our fault that they did not know of the deviant meaning of the term.
    What hypocrisy are you referring to? You have to be specific if you are going to make accusations.
    As far as "tea-bagger" you know very well what this term means, and are choosing to use it as a pejorative. To hide behind some justification is a bit dishonest I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Again, see Muslims....
    Again...What? I'm not sure if you think that it is relevant to add an accusation on top of another accusation and pretend it equals validity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Nobody is taking away their freedom to protest, we are just wanting them to act like respectable adults. Is that too much to ask for?
    No, some (perhaps you) are creating a propaganda campaign to smear these people with the methods I described above. I note that I've heard a distinct lack of "concern" of condemnation of bad behavior of those on the left--its happening too, but SOMEHOW only protesters from the RIGHT are a problem. Hmmmm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Also, if you are willing to stand out there with some dopey sign, you damned well better be ready to be made fun of for it. Freedom of speech is a 2 way street.
    Well, I agree with that, I just find it strange that "dissent" is such a glorious virtue when the left does it, but its a call to violence and target for intimidation when those on the right do it. They're digging in the leftists' ditch I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Who is silencing them? You are just making stuff up and letting them play the victim. And it is OK for them to "bash" but they cannot themselves be "bashed?" Who is the commie now?
    Well, they aren't actually silencing them. They would LIKE to silence them I think, which is what these intimidation tactics are aimed at--my opinion. It is also interesting to note that during the 8 years of vigorous Bush-bashing that all along, the leftists cried about how their "dissent" was being suppressed. I think the leftist propaganda machine is a bit more subtle than this. Rather they are engaging in smear tactics, attempting to create an image that people will shy away from, because no one wants to be associated with something bad. That's why leftist propagandists are working so hard to project the image of violence and racism, etc on this whole group of people, despite the fact that this is not representative of the vast majority of these people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Ever heard of hypocrisy?
    Well, yeah, I see it here daily.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Denial?
    No. Wait, yes....nope, I have never heard of denial.

    KAM
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Didn't ask you to buy it. It's fact though. A little checking and you could confirm very easily. Certainly fox helped get the word out. But that was after the fact. If any entity is responsible, it the government.
    .
    If their distorted view of the government (n@zi, death panels, concentration camps by FEMA) is a result of FoxNews lying in the name of "getting the word out", then Fox is responsible. When Beck can say that Pelosi is thinking "what do we have to do to get them to kill us?", I don't know how you can say that they bear no responsibility.
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  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    That's why leftist propagandists are working so hard to project the image of violence and racism, etc on this whole group of people, despite the fact that this is not representative of the vast majority of these people.
    The Tea Party is doing enough projecting of violence and racism without any help from the left.
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  16. KAM1138
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    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Come on, to suggest the Tea Party folk are not republican and/or conservative is fantasy.

    The thing was basically organized by Fox News.
    Well, many of them definitely have specific conservative views--namely a stated respect for the Constitution and the concept of limited government and fiscal conservatism.

    But the propaganda that has been pushed by Nancy Pelosi, the White House, and now all the minions is that this is "astroturf" or illegitimate in some way.

    As I said above--this isn't a literal attempt to "silence" these people--rather it is a concerted effort (as evidenced by the constant drumbeat that you are all following faithfully) to disparage these people in any way you can, using any tool available, from guilt by association (a mainstay) to outright fabrications repeated endlessly.

    It's classic propaganda--the same sort of caricatures used by racists, and hate mongers of various sorts throughout history. These propagandists CREATE a distorted image that they can attack and then point to the intended target and say "That's them, that's them."

    As I said--its really transparent.

    KAM
  17. KAM1138
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    The Tea Party is doing enough projecting of violence and racism without any help from the left.
    Well, if that were true, you wouldn't need threads like this (or multiple others) would you? But CLEARLY (the evidence is before you) you do.

    Again, its funny that I'm really not seeing you folks even mentioning leftist incidents of violence. Perhaps I missed them.

    I guess in the end you are welcome to engage in this sort of propaganda, you just shouldn't pretend that it is any sort of objective "concern."

    KAM
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post

    I guess in the end you are welcome to engage in this sort of propaganda, you just shouldn't pretend that it is any sort of objective "concern."

    KAM
    When Rush Limbaugh states, after health care is signed into law: “We need to defeat these bas****s. We need to wipe them out.”, it's not propaganda, it's simple truth.

    And I am concerned, mostly about folks who lap up everything he and Beck say (even though even Republicans admit that it's about viewers, not about truth), and may act on those violent statements.
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  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    It's classic propaganda--the same sort of caricatures used by racists, and hate mongers of various sorts throughout history. These propagandists CREATE a distorted image that they can attack and then point to the intended target and say "That's them, that's them."
    You mean propaganda like this, used by racists and hatemongers:





    Last edited by Bujin; 03/25/2010 at 09:09 PM.
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  20. KAM1138
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    When Rush Limbaugh states, after health care is signed into law: “We need to defeat these bas****s. We need to wipe them out.”, it's not propaganda, it's simple truth.
    Other than the naughty word, exactly what is troubling to you about this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    And I am concerned, mostly about folks who lap up everything he and Beck say (even though even Republicans admit that it's about viewers, not about truth), and may act on those violent statements.
    Maybe you shouldn't concern yourself with your ASSUMPTION of what others "lap up" and worry about what YOU "lap up."

    Exactly, what are you claiming is a "violent statement" by Beck or Limbaugh? I heard Beck on the way home today on the Radio, and he specifically was talking about Peaceful methods--calling for people to follow the model of MLK and Ghandi. That stands in direct contrast to what you seem to be claiming.

    KAM
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