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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by subnaiyo View Post
    What I'm hoping will happen is the Republican party will split into two seperate parties. Libertarian and Republican. That way there is now a 3rd party in America. I would love to see that.
    There is already a Libertarian Party. Its platform is not very traditionally congruent with many of the newly coined 'libertarians' out there. OTOH, they did run Bob Barr last time, so perhaps they're leaving their traditional base.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  2. KAM1138
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by subnaiyo View Post
    I'm ready for November to come around. Nothing bad can come of it.
    That's an interesting take on things.

    Quote Originally Posted by subnaiyo View Post
    1. Democrats keep their majorities and keep turning out results for the American people
    Oh, I'm sure they're going to try to keep turning out results. GOOD results...well, that's different of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by subnaiyo View Post
    2. Republicans win some seats, maybe take a majority in the senate. They cant repeal anything without a veto-proof majority (which is rediculous to think will happen), but now they are responsible for actually providing some bills. I guess they can keep holding up the process, but it will just reinforce to the American people what little they have to offer.
    Hmmm, do you really think that the Senate is more likely to be taken than the House? Right now at best it is looking like 8 seats MAYBE 9, but even that is optimistic. The House on the other hand is much more prone to change. I'd give it a better chance of flipping.

    Quote Originally Posted by subnaiyo View Post
    Political majorities go in swings so it is likely the republicans will pick up some seats. But its better to have that in 2010 and show the people what they're made up of before we get to 2012, where it really matters.
    That is the historical trend (although broken in 2002). 2012 really matters? Haven't we just had a demonstration that ALL of these elections matter very highly?

    Quote Originally Posted by subnaiyo View Post
    Can Republicans keep up the anger/fearmongering for 2.5 more years? doubtful
    Can republicans offer anything to help america? maybe. Have they showed that yet? nope.
    Democrats were able to keep up their fear mongering and anger for 8 years, and although it took them 6 to overcome the existing Republican majority, they sure stayed on course. I think the Republicans learned a lot from Democrat tactics of recent years. Unfortunately.

    Quote Originally Posted by subnaiyo View Post
    I think it is equally important to note that no matter how low the Democrats favorability rating gets, the republicans are consistently still below them. Quite a stretch to say they will pick up A LOT of seats come November. But if they do, we'll show them how democracy works, by solving our issues over discussion, not violence.
    Well, the violence argument is one that leftists are trying hard to project, but that isn't what Republicans have advocated at all--that's just another smear.

    However, as to picking up a lot of seats...don't be so sure. You've got to keep in mind that the districts aren't perfect mixes, but the general poll assumes they are. Further, I haven't seen any in a few weeks, but in some polls Republicans have led in generic ballots.

    KAM
  3. KAM1138
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    What party do you think is the closest to the Tea Baggers when it comes to values and beliefs? There is no doubt they sit farther right than left, which puts them more Republican like than Democrat like IMO.
    You're ignoring that independent voters tend towards fiscal conservatism, and the TEA party movement is rooted in that, contrary to propagandist claims otherwise. They are not a wing or branch of the Republican party, nor organized by it. Republicans are hoping to gain their support however--that much is clear.

    Leftists are depending on the fact that recently the Republican "Brand" as they call it has been very unpopular, and are hoping to spike this effort by CREATING connections whether they exist or not.

    No, this is ALL about independent voters and where they might go in the 2010 election and beyond. Pretending otherwise is a smokescreen in my view--a very blatant (and oddly transparent) distraction.

    If these people suddenly decided that Democrats were more likely to be favored, these accusations would dry up faster than anything.

    KAM
  4. Micael's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    What party do you think is the closest to the Tea Baggers when it comes to values and beliefs? There is no doubt they sit farther right than left, which puts them more Republican like than Democrat like IMO.
    Your distasteful slur is getting to be a bit tedious. The Tea Party isn't actually a party. They're a movement focused on 2 or 4 major issues. They include people who are members of numerous parties, and some without affiliation.

    Now to describe them, like you did in the second part of your post, as largely being right of center.... I can agree with you. I'm just not buying that they're the Republican party.... because they're not. It's that simple. Apples and oranges.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  5. #25  
    The tea party is useless unless it has a good candidate that can be the face of the party that isn't already corrupt. Hence all this anger and protesting is pretty much useless. Just another Ross Perot type fad that will die off eventually.

    My question is don't these people have jobs? or something else better to do that protest harry reid?

    The problem here is the people who really care, cant do a damn thing about it. The people in power who can change things don't really care. The tea party is a bunch of white noise to me and most people. They are no different than PETA now.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    .

    Now to describe them, like you did in the second part of your post, as largely being right of center.... I can agree with you. I'm just not buying that they're the Republican party.... because they're not. It's that simple. Apples and oranges.

    You're right. They are the operations wing of the right wing fringe of the republican party. There....feel better?

    I'd love to know what percent of people that describe themselves as Tea Partiers voted for Obama. Or Barr, for that matter. Any guesses?
  7. KAM1138
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    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    It's also America's opinion.

    If the Tea Party wants to separate itself from the Republican Party. I would suggest it separate itself from Republican politicians.
    You're really being way too blatant about your purpose with this.

    KAM
  8. KAM1138
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    Independent voters may well tend towards fiscal conservatism but not the right wing fiscal conservatism SUPPOSEDLy espoused by this Tea Party.
    What is "right wing" about this fiscal conservatism compared to not-right-wing fiscal conservatism. Where are you imagining this line?

    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    SUDDENLY, when a Democratic President and Congress get elected, a "fiscally conservative" brand new party pops up... hmmmmmmmm
    Why would you find it surprising that there is a reaction to a radical surge on the opposite side?

    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    The Tea Party obviously welcomes Republican Party members to speak at its convention and to organize its protests. Yeah, their so, so different.
    Yes, they are different, you just seem to be unable to discern the difference between anyone who is right of you.

    KAM
  9. KAM1138
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    You're right. They are the operations wing of the right wing fringe of the republican party. There....feel better?

    I'd love to know what percent of people that describe themselves as Tea Partiers voted for Obama. Or Barr, for that matter. Any guesses?
    And thank YOU for another simplistic analysis wedged into your narrow mindset.

    KAM
  10. Micael's Avatar
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    It's also America's opinion.
    Only those that refuse to actually understand the facts.
    If the Tea Party wants to separate itself from the Republican Party. I would suggest it separate itself from Republican politicians.
    I see. Okay. I've failed to help you see the difference between them.

    If anything, the Tea Party is a problem for the Republican party. If they were shills for the repubs, there'd be no worries come election time. But *reality* is that if they support candidates other than the ones the republicans put on the ticket, they'll have the same affect that the Green Party has on the Democrats.... they'll suck away votes.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  11. KAM1138
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Only those that refuse to actually understand the facts.
    I see. Okay. I've failed to help you see the difference between them.

    If anything, the Tea Party is a problem for the Republican party. If they were shills for the repubs, there'd be no worries come election time. But *reality* is that if they support candidates other than the ones the republicans put on the ticket, they'll have the same affect that the Green Party has on the Democrats.... they'll suck away votes.
    Oddly enough this is SPECIFICALLY a problem in Nevada isn't it? Isn't there a Tea party Candidate running against Reid and whoever the Republican is/will be? Doesn't this make the OP and subsequent supporting posts particularly off base?

    I guess its good we've got this healthcare thing sewn up now--because a lot of people are going to need treatment for all the hand-wringing they're doing.

    KAM
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Your premise isn't a fact, but an accusation in itself. "Republican party Creator" is your claim and nothing more.
    Maybe not "creator" but definitely "supporter"

    Your "police their own" premise is also forwarding a false concept--that individuals have the power to police other individuals.
    So they can collectively agree to meet and stage their protest, but it is unfair to assume that they would ask their own to behave like grown adults?

    Another question to ask is if efforts similar to those we've seen here, smearing innocent people with the actions of a few, will be perpetrated by the media against these people.
    Kind of like what they do with all of the anti Muslim hate speach. Blame them all for what only a few have done...

    What's clear is that people (like you) are making attempts to do exactly what you present here as questions. It's been demonstrated here again and again.
    Kind of like you with you bashing of all things "leftist?" I guess you only throw Nerf stones in you glass house.

    What's likely is that leftist propagandists will continue to portray people who they disagree with (Tea Party Protesters) in the most extreme way possible, including labeling them with a name referring to a sexual act, projecting the actions of a few on the whole, and making connections that don't actually exist.
    The hypocrisy in this statement of your is mind boggling. As for the "Tea Bagging" moniker, they came up with it. It is not our fault that they did not know of the deviant meaning of the term.

    These propagandists will also forward the false notion that an innocent person or group is responsible for "policing" individuals, and proactively denying any bad actions that individuals might engage in. They will be blamed for violent acts, using guilt-by-association.
    Again, see Muslims....

    What's clear is that the Freedom of these people to Protest is under attack by those that want them silenced. Smear tactics will be used against them, they will be subjected to wild accusations, and have what they are doing distorted by propagandists of various stripes.
    Nobody is taking away their freedom to protest, we are just wanting them to act like respectable adults. Is that too much to ask for? Also, if you are willing to stand out there with some dopey sign, you damned well better be ready to be made fun of for it. Freedom of speech is a 2 way street.

    These people should be very careful, because they are now the targets of very both professional, and street level propagandists who are determined to silence them, either literally or by smearing them.
    Who is silencing them? You are just making stuff up and letting them play the victim. And it is OK for them to "bash" but they cannot themselves be "bashed?" Who is the commie now?

    Have you ever heard of "telegraphing"?

    KAM
    Ever heard of hypocrisy?

    Denial?
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    Teabaggers are just extremist Right-wing Republicans who are unhappy that their regular party failed to take policy as far right as they wanted (which is why they chant that Bush was not a true Conservative).
    Bush was not a conservative at all, much less a "true" conservative. Look how he increased government spending.

    I would support the U.S. Constitution Party if they stood a snowball's chance of accomplishing anything.
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  14.    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    If they were smart, ....
    Yea, I think that's part of the problem.

  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I'm sorry. I tried to respond to this. But it's so full of venomous slurs, gross inaccuracies, and misinformation, that I've giving up. All I'm left with is to say, "Wrong".
    Come on, to suggest the Tea Party folk are not republican and/or conservative is fantasy.

    The thing was basically organized by Fox News.
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Come on, to suggest the Tea Party folk are not republican and/or conservative is fantasy.

    The thing was basically organized by Fox News.
    I didn't say that there were not lots of republicans and conservatives in the Tea Party. The assertion was that Tea Party was the Republican core - and that they are one in the same. They're not. Not even close. Fox News has nothing to do with that. Why throw that in?

    The goal of blurring the lines of distinction between the two is what's clear.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  17. #37  
    The democrats are setting the people up. they are pulling the curtains down on the healthcare debate by showing everybody the supposed "violence" by those "evil teabagging right wing extremists". So much for obama's campaign promise of stopping the politics of fear.

    if you followed the tea parties from the beginning, you would know that the tea parties were started by the citizens, not the politicians. the politicians started latching onto them when they saw that they would help them stay in office by claiming they were with them.
  18.    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I didn't say that there were not lots of republicans and conservatives in the Tea Party. The assertion was that Tea Party was the Republican core - and that they are one in the same. They're not. Not even close. Fox News has nothing to do with that. Why throw that in?

    The goal of blurring the lines of distinction between the two is what's clear.
    Fox News was the marketing arm for promoting the "Tea Party" events.

    I would say the republicans in the TP are closer to the base of the republican party than not.
  19. Micael's Avatar
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Fox News was the marketing arm for promoting the "Tea Party" events.

    I would say the republicans in the TP are closer to the base of the republican party than not.
    The TP was its own movement. You seem to be implying that they rose because of the effort of FNC. The TP used facebook, twitter, blogs, call ins to radio shows, new articles, to get the word out. Trying to paint fox as the marketing arm is fantasy. They're just the only network that paid them any mind that wasn't insulting or demeaning.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  20.    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by GarrettQ View Post
    The democrats are setting the people up. they are pulling the curtains down on the healthcare debate by showing everybody the supposed "violence" by those "evil teabagging right wing extremists". So much for obama's campaign promise of stopping the politics of fear.
    Are you suggesting the Democrats are making these people behave in these violent/intimidating ways?


    Quote Originally Posted by GarrettQ View Post
    if you followed the tea parties from the beginning, you would know that the tea parties were started by the citizens, not the politicians. the politicians started latching onto them when they saw that they would help them stay in office by claiming they were with them.
    None of which will matter in the 2010 election. If the TPs continue going in front of the media with their rabid, foaming at the mouth, racist signs and calls to violence they will turn off the moderate voter from the republican party.
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