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  1. #181  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Yo davidra....you do have a sense of humor! I knew it was in there some where.
    Please don't encourage him.
  2. #182  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    I'd rather have a sign in my face than be spat upon or harassed in my home like the Leftists are doing to Stupak.
    Well, that's an interesting rewrite of reality.....while the left harassed him prior to the vote, it's the anti-abortionists on the right who are making the threats to Stupak because they think he turned on them. Did you just conveniently forget them, or do you not believe it?

    Bart Stupak Received Threatening Messages for Health Care Vote (Listen) - Political Hotsheet - CBS News


    "Congressman Stupak, you baby-killing mother f***er... I hope you bleed out your a**, got cancer and die, you mother f***er," one man says in a message to Stupak.

    "There are millions of people across the country who wish you ill," a woman says in a voicemail, "and all of those thoughts that are projected on you will materialize into something that's not very good for you."

    CBS News also obtained copies of faxes sent to Stupak, which include racial epithets used in reference to President Obama and show pictures of nooses with Stupak's name.
    Both sides are absolutely wrong in their actions, but your singling out of one side sounds rather disingenuous.
    Last edited by Bujin; 03/26/2010 at 07:35 PM.
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    #183  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Well, that's an interesting rewrite of reality.....while the left harassed him prior to the vote, it's the anti-abortionists on the right who are making the threats to Stupak because they think he turned on them. Did you just conveniently forget them, or do you not believe it?

    Bart Stupak Received Threatening Messages for Health Care Vote (Listen) - Political Hotsheet - CBS News




    Both sides are absolutely wrong in their actions, but your singling out of one side sounds rather disingenuous.
    Wow, have you read this thread? Have you read your own posts in this thread? I don't think a little balance is out of order.
  4. #184  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Wow, have you read this thread? Have you read your own posts in this thread? I don't think a little balance is out of order.
    And your idea of "balance" is to entirely misrepresent the truth? "Like the Leftists are doing to Stupak", when the reality is that it's the right currently doing it? Okay, if you think that makes your argument credible....
    Last edited by Bujin; 03/26/2010 at 08:00 PM.
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  5. #185  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    I'm tired of your straw-distractions. People here are attacking innocent people that haven't done anything wrong, smearing them with the bad actions of others. This isn't hard to understand, and I'm sure you do understand it--you likely just don't care.
    "Straw distractions" LMAO LMAO LMAO So if I stand on the street corner with a dopey sign and spewing ignorance, no matter right or left, I am am not open for criticism? If I put myself into that position, and do get criticised, I am now a victim to you?

    Actually, I mostly use the term "leftist" to accurately describe people on the political left. Are you NOT on the political left? I'm not a huge fan of labels, but it is an effective (and accurate) shorthand. If you'd like to claim that you are a centrist or rightist please feel free.
    You can call me whatever you like. However you feel comfortable to pigeon hole me to fit your needs. Where I do have an issue is when you say that it is wrong to label protesters, and in the same sentence, label me/whom ever you disagree with. It is as you were saying "It is not right for you idiots, to call them fools!"

    So you say. Funny--I haven't seen these people calling themselves "Teabaggers." What--did some random person mention this, justifying your use of this term as a pejorative?
    As I have been saying, the tea party was more than fine with calling themselves that from the start of the movement, until they found out the alternate meaning. Not my fault you did not catch that.

    Well, I'm not familiar with any liberal protests that are decidedly lawful and peaceful (if loud), with only a tiny percentage of bad-actors, but I'm sure they exist.

    KAM
    You said "This nonsense is taking place on both sides currently..." Where is it on the left?

    So you have never seen a lawful protest by liberals? You have never seen a peaceful protest by liberals? I am sorry that you have chosen to live in a world that is so one sided...
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  6. #186  
    I wonder if the Republicans think that denying unemployment benefits is really the path back to a majority? Senators battle again over extending jobless benefits - CNN.com
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  7. #187  
    IMPORTANT!!! A MUST WATCH FOR ALL!!!

    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
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    #188  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    I never called them a party. I said what party their beliefs are closest to.
    And what beliefs would those be?
    I also never said they are part of the Republican party. No need to call me distasteful.

    Just because I am from the most liberal part of America (SF Bay) doesn't mean I agree with everything that goes on here.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  9. groovy's Avatar
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    #189  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    And your idea of "balance" is to entirely misrepresent the truth? "Like the Leftists are doing to Stupak", when the reality is that it's the right currently doing it? Okay, if you think that makes your argument credible....
    Read the article. It clearly states that Stupak's problems arose out of his dissent over the HCR bill, not his support of it. The article was published March 18 so we know that the spitting, the obscene calls, the harassing phone calls to his home, were all done primarily by the Left.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/house/87...ak%3Fpage%3D37

    Leading a revolt against President Barack Obama’s healthcare legislation over abortion has been a “living hell” for Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.).

    The telephone lines in his Washington and district offices have been “jammed” and he’s gotten more than 1,500 faxes and countless e-mails — most of which he says don’t come from his constituents.

    The fight has taken a toll on his wife, who has disconnected the phone in their home to avoid harassment.

    “All the phones are unplugged at our house — tired of the obscene calls and threats. She won’t watch TV,” Stupak said during an hourlong interview with The Hill in his Rayburn office. “People saying they’re going to spit on you and all this. That’s just not fun.”

    ...

    But the intensity of the resistance to Stupak’s position has, if anything, stiffened his resolve. He shows no signs of voting for the Senate healthcare bill, which could hit the House floor this week.

    ...

    Being seen as the one Democrat standing between the party and the achievement of one of its most coveted accomplishments weighs heavily on the lawmaker, who said it’s not fair to paint him as the chief obstacle to passing healthcare reform.
    And if you're going to squabble over the use of the word "are" vs "were" about events no more than a few days old then, well, I don't really know what to say. I doubt you would change your stance one way or the other if I changed it to "were" so it doesn't really matter.
    Last edited by groovy; 03/27/2010 at 02:11 AM.
  10. #190  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    IMPORTANT!!! A MUST WATCH FOR ALL!!!


    That is absolutely perfect. All these people talking about how much they hate the bill....and they understand not even the most basic aspects of what it is. Great representation of many on this forum as well.
  11. #191  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Read the article. It clearly states that Stupak's problems arose out of his dissent over the HCR bill, not his support of it.
    I did read it, and maybe you need to read my posts to you, where I stated very clearly that the left were harassing him prior to his vote, and just as clearly stated that both sides were wrong. Unlike you, I recognized fault on both sides' parts.

    And if you're going to squabble over the use of the word "are" vs "were" about events no more than a few days old then, well, I don't really know what to say. I doubt you would change your stance one way or the other if I changed it to "were" so it doesn't really matter.
    If you think that making statements that are clearly and purposefully not true, in order to make a political point, is an honest debate tactic, then there's no basis for discussion.
    Last edited by Bujin; 03/27/2010 at 07:50 AM.
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    #192  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    If you think that making statements that are clearly and purposefully not true, in order to make a political point, is an honest debate tactic, then there's no basis for discussion.
    Do you really think there's a practical difference between me saying members of the Left are spitting on and harassing Stupak and member of the Left were spitting on and harassing Stupak up until, maybe, a few days ago? Really? You're going to accuse me of dishonesty over that?

    Keep in mind that if they've stopped harassing Stupak in his own home, the only reason is because he caved into their demands. Personally, I don't think it's a difference worth getting hung up over.
  13. groovy's Avatar
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    #193  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I did read it, and maybe you need to read my posts to you, where I stated very clearly that the left were harassing him prior to his vote, and just as clearly stated that both sides were wrong. Unlike you, I recognized fault on both sides' parts.
    Yeah, went back all 11 pages. Not a peep of condemnation of Leftist tactics until I pointed them out. Then, just "both sides are wrong". Excuse me if I don't think you have much credibility to talk about being genuine in this case.
  14. #194  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Do you really think there's a practical difference between me saying members of the Left are spitting on and harassing Stupak and member of the Left were spitting on and harassing Stupak up until, maybe, a few days ago? Really? You're going to accuse me of dishonesty over that.
    Yes, when you also conveniently leave out the current death threats from the right. It's not simply a difference in perspective - it was a purposeful distortion of truth and it is simply dishonest.

    You don't have to agree with me on it - if you think it's within your view of honest debate, that's fine.
  15. #195  
    i spent the last few days, omg lol, watching and listening to your Glenn Beck, and Ann Coulter. The latter who recently visited Canada on a speaking tour.. I will allow George Bernard Shaw to give to you, what I think of these two " Don't wrestle with a pig, You will get dirty, and the Pigs like it.
  16. KAM1138
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    #196  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Come on Kam. All those freaking witch doctor posters don't smack of racist to you?
    No doubt. That kind of stuff is ridiculous in my view. I haven't EVER defended that kind of thing.

    KAM
  17. KAM1138
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    #197  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    He wanted tea party examples there ya go.
    Actually, I was asking about evidence in regards to the racial slurs that were allegedly thrown at some members of Congress.

    But I'm glad that you can acknowledge that two wrongs do not make a right.

    KAM
  18. #198  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    No doubt. That kind of stuff is ridiculous in my view. I haven't EVER defended that kind of thing.

    KAM
    No. You've just defended the group of people that are carrying them.
  19. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #199  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Riiiggghhhttttt. Tell me, do you recognize any of these statements? And this is just from this thread, not the other teabagger thread. I got bored after a while, because just about every post of yours is "defending those people". Can you spell "apologist"?

    Right. You're not defending them.
    Wow, can you spell "comprehension." I've defended innocent people against attacks smearing them-by people like you. I've not defended anyone's "vitrol." Defending people that have done nothing wrong (the vast majority of people protesting) is not defending the minority that have engaged in ugly behavior.

    For some reason you can't seem to comprehend that. Why you lack the ability to understand what is actually being talked about in a conversation is unknown to me.

    Again--very simply, there are two basic groups: The vast majority who are exercising their right of protest in a lawful manner, and the minority who have behaved badly in some way.

    If you had ANY objectivity or desire to understand what I've actually said, you'd have to acknowledge that I've not defended the bad actions of the minority at all (and in fact I've condemned them). Rather, I've defended the innocent against the efforts of people here who try and project the bad actions of a few on the whole--which is an inherently dishonest practice.

    Now, I hope that makes things very clear, since it is obvious that you failed to understand that based on your own reading.

    KAM
  20. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #200  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    No. You've just defended the group of people that are carrying them.
    You are attempting to forward yet another lie. Your inability to deal with what I say truthfully is way beyond tiresome.

    Let me point it out AGAIN, since you apparently cannot comprehend simple concepts such as these. The GROUP is not carrying these signs--some individuals are. You are relying on the lie that the actions of some individuals define the actions of the whole. Stop forwarding this lie. I know that you and others here are very unhappy that someone is pointing out that this guilt-by-association tactic that is being used, but I will continue to do so, because it is inherently dishonest.

    I could speculated on the reasons WHY you and others are insisting on this sort of dishonest practice, but that's not what's important. What is important is exposing the fact that you are relying on these lies and distortions, attacking innocent people.

    Secondly, I have not defended the INDIVIDUALS that have carried signs like this, Period. Nor have I defended any violent actions, or racist slurs, yet you have attempted repeatedly to forward the notion that I have. That's inherently dishonest. So I will say it again STOP LYING.

    If you cannot understand that individuals and groups as a whole aren't the same thing, then I'm not sure how to help you with this deficiency.

    Its interesting that someone who has whined about "lies" that the other side tells is so eager to depend on what is inherently false.

    KAM
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