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  1. KAM1138
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    #1  
    Hello Everyone,

    I've no interest in rehashing the closed thread about this, but here is an article on the validity of the poll from ABC.

    Polling on Presidential Pejoratives - The Numbers

    Excerpts:
    Whatever profoundly negative things people might think about Barack Obama, a new poll out today demonstrates splendidly how not to measure them.

    Hot words, those. The survey, done by Harris Interactive, apparently was designed to test the theories in a book claiming the “lunatic fringe is hijacking America.” The purpose seems to have been to see how many people the pollsters could get to agree to pejorative statements about Obama. Quite a few, it turns out – but with what I see as a highly manipulative approach to questionnaire design.

    The problems are fundamental. “Some people have said” is a biasing introductory phrase; it imbues the subsequent statements with an air of credibility – particularly when you don’t note that others say something else. (That approach can have problems of its own; the “some people” vs. “other people” format implies equivalence.)

    Another problem, which I discuss here, is the challenge of over-literalism in evaluating survey results of this type. Rather than answering disparaging poll questions literally, people who are ill-disposed toward the subject may simply use these questions as an opportunity to express their general antipathy – not as a thought-out endorsement of the specific posit. And the use of hot-button invective is ill-advised in its own right; respondents may just blow it back.


    End Excerpts

    I'll let the actions of people that are eager to grasp onto any club available to attack a "whole movement" of people with this sort of biased stuff speak for itself.

    As far as I'm concerned, the Moderators can close this thread, as the intent was to provide information only.

    KAM
  2. Micael's Avatar
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    #2  
    Polls are interesting, but can easily be made to say anything that you want. Too many variables and nuances can affect the responses if you're not extremely careful. Even then, it's suspect.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  3. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Polls are interesting, but can easily be made to say anything that you want. Too many variables and nuances can affect the responses if you're not extremely careful. Even then, it's suspect.
    True. Some polling is better than others. Tracking polls that follow trends in a logical and consistent manner with reasonable methodology are valuable for looking at general views at least.

    I think objective people can understand the difference between legitimate polls, and what they are good for, and the opposite.

    KAM
  4. #4  
    One time I commissioned a poll asking my kids if I was a good parent. I did that after grounding them... apparently, I suck.
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  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    True. Some polling is better than others. Tracking polls that follow trends in a logical and consistent manner with reasonable methodology are valuable for looking at general views at least.

    I think objective people can understand the difference between legitimate polls, and what they are good for, and the opposite.

    KAM
    Right. Those are the same objective people who responded to the poll, right? Yes, there are lots of methodologic problems with polls. I'd be much more critical of this one if only I hadn't heard similar beliefs on a regular basis being spouted by republican legislators and opinion leaders. OK...slight overestimate. Only 40% think he's a Muslim and only the same percent think he wasn't born in the US. Huge difference, right?
  6. KAM1138
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    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Right. Those are the same objective people who responded to the poll, right? Yes, there are lots of methodologic problems with polls. I'd be much more critical of this one if only I hadn't heard similar beliefs on a regular basis being spouted by republican legislators and opinion leaders. OK...slight overestimate. Only 40% think he's a Muslim and only the same percent think he wasn't born in the US. Huge difference, right?
    As I said--I'm not here to rehash your silly thread. I am satisfied to let your dependence on such tripe speak for itself.

    But of course, we really have no idea who responded to that poll. Given that this poll was specifically in support of a left-wing hit job, it is reasonable to QUESTION whether the responses were even real. No way of knowing in the end.

    Objective people might be interested in those sorts of details--others are just happy to have a weapon, regardless of how inaccurate it might be.

    KAM
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    True. Some polling is better than others. Tracking polls that follow trends in a logical and consistent manner with reasonable methodology are valuable for looking at general views at least.

    I think objective people can understand the difference between legitimate polls, and what they are good for, and the opposite.

    KAM
    i use polls daily, someone can always find something that does not sit well with them regarding the results.
  8. Micael's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    i use polls daily, someone can always find something that does not sit well with them regarding the results.
    This is a true, but separate point. There's the analysis that goes in to crafting good questions (or bad), and then there's the interpretation and subjective spin, if you will, after the fact.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  9. Micael's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    ...if only I hadn't heard similar beliefs on a regular basis being spouted by republican legislators and opinion leaders....
    There's the interpretation (spin) that's based on personal biasing. I'm not saying you're wrong davidra. We all do it. Just pointing it out. People need to be able to discern the difference from the resulting data and the spin that soon follows.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  10. KAM1138
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    i use polls daily, someone can always find something that does not sit well with them regarding the results.
    It's the methodology that is in question here. In this case, an independent source identifies it as being unusual, and misleading.

    KAM
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    As I said--I'm not here to rehash your silly thread. I am satisfied to let your dependence on such tripe speak for itself.

    But of course, we really have no idea who responded to that poll. Given that this poll was specifically in support of a left-wing hit job, it is reasonable to QUESTION whether the responses were even real. No way of knowing in the end.

    Objective people might be interested in those sorts of details--others are just happy to have a weapon, regardless of how inaccurate it might be.

    KAM

    It's pretty obvious you did it to slam them, but machts nicht.
  12. KAM1138
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by thekarens View Post
    It's pretty obvious you did it to slam them, but machts nicht.
    You're welcome to your opinion. I'd say I did it to expose the supposed basis of the attack, the flawed justification of it, because "them" aren't really important to me.

    It is interesting how exposing information about something used to smear people however, is considered a "slam" rather than the actual attack itself.


    KAM
    Last edited by KAM1138; 03/25/2010 at 01:54 PM.
  13. Micael's Avatar
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    #13  
    Fair warning - let's not make this a continuation of a closed thread, or it too will be closed.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  14. KAM1138
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    #14  
    Hello Everyone,

    Some additional information on the poll used in their attack on others.

    Out on a Limb : CJR

    And

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...googlenews_wsj

    This speaks to the nature of the poll, and the people who blindly rely on it to justify their preconceived views.

    This also speaks to the low level of our political "discourse" that such joke is considered relevant.

    KAM

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