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  1. #161  
    Let me first say that I have not been paying much attention to this thread as much as many others have. I thought this was a thread about E-Coupons. Silly me, I should have known better.

    Anyways, back to what I was going to say. The Word according to Jason:

    I am a Republican and am a moderate, I don't agree with everything on the Republican platform (like space policy) but nine times out of ten, I do. I think Bush is doing a great job. He is doing what needed to be done against terrorism. I am happy that while some may not think so, it has turned out that the right man was elected president out of that Election 2000 mess. I can just imagine what Gore would have done in the same situation. Probably no remeding of the situation, just diplomatic schnadigans with a corrupt government like the Taliban.

    Israel and Palestine...
    Build a wall already!! It is obvious that the Palestinians will not stop until they get there own country. The Israelis won't give them one until the Palestinians stop committing suicide in the name of Yasir Arafat. The Israelis just make it worse by razing refugee towns and bombing Palestinian cities. What are the Palestinians going to do, sit back and watch there homes burn. Or maybe they should take a page from the book version of "The Sum of All Fears" and watch how moods will change. For those who are not familiar with the book (this was not in the movie because of the change in terrorist groups), a group of Palestinian protesters were being assaulted by Israeli military with tear gas when the protesters sat down, put on gas masks, and started singing "We Shall Overcome." One Israeli police captain then snapped, walked up to the protest leader and shot him in the head point blank. Returning to reality, the Israelis even have the wonderful idea of bombing Arafat's security forces when, get this, they expect those same security forces to arrest terrorists. Is that the most screwed up thing or what? All Palestinians want is what little bit of land they had back. Don't trust that poll saying that 48% want Israel pushed into the sea. You would be saying that too in the heat of conflict.

    The Palestinians are making it hard on themselves with all of these suicide bombings. It doesn't produce support from the US or major vocal support from the Europeans. If they really wanted to have that support but still show the Israelis that they will not just roll over to incursions would be to march, without a rock thrown or a bomb blown up, en masse, say one to five hundred thousand, past Israeli checkpoints and to Tel Aviv. Clog up streets, just kinda gum up the works. Again, not blowing stuff up or what not. What is Israel going to do? Fire on them. What did that group of Palestinians do? Fire on them before they reach the border? With women and children? As you can see there are stuff that the Palestinians, as a people can do to help there situation, bring on the peace negotiators, protect their homeland, or what is left of it, and not look like the bad guys.

    Now, Terry, I know what you are going to say, "Israel isn't doing anything differently than what the US is doing?" You couldn't be more wrong. In Afghanistan, there were large terrorist camps and caves where there were no civilians for miles so the use of bombs was necessary and even then there were a few mistakes. In Palestine, terrorists live among the people. What was required was a scapple, what was used was a butcher knife. Jenin was raised, entire groups of people were rounded up, whether they were terrorists or not. House to house searches were also used, and that is fine. Missiles were used against security officials in Palestinians, the same group that Sharon demands arrests suspected terrorists.

    Before I leave this subject, I should say the I of course condemn suicide bombing. No civilians should be killed in war regardless of whether they are Israeli or Palestinian.

    Moving on to unions. Good idea. Even as a Republican I have no real problem with unions. Now what I would have a problem if they were sancitioned by the government. As long as it is just a group of workers wanting to protect themselves in the matters of workplace conditions and pay issues, fine. Better they do that then the government.

    European politics...
    Wait, how is our system that much different from yours? When we both vote from president, and for this example I will use the French model, mileage may vary by country but I am sure this fits for Germany and Russia as well, you start out with 15 or so candidates with widely ranging political beliefs. There is an election that cuts that number to two. For the next two weeks, both candidates, if they are smart, start to move to the center trying to bring in people who voted for the other 13 candidates. There is a lot coalition building. A lot of merging of beliefs among the candidates still standing and those who already lost. Then there is a second election. Wait, this is EXACTLY like the American system though number of initial candidates may vary. As far as the other European countries go, you just have to appreciate that there are differences in systems. While our head of government is elected seperately and for good reason (checks and balances and what not) while for yours is akin to our Speaker of the House (Dennis Hastert wouldn't make a bad president though). BTW, where is the center-right and how much power does it have in the European parliments? I know the center-left hold most of the power and everyone is worried about the far-right (which is just as bad as the far-left, even in my conservative opinion).

    European opinions of Bush...
    Europeans have a right complain or exhault Bush but don't expect that to change too much U.S. policy. I don't care how "cooperative" your nation is, it will serve its needs first before the needs of others. If it comes down between a contract with a Fijian company or a US company, nine times out of ten it will pick a US company if it can do the same things. Let see what other complaints have there been. Too many to count I guess, but what can you expect from a predominately liberal continent (with the exception of good ol' Italy).

    Jason
    Did you just go near a burning hot river of lava or are you just happy to see me?
  2.    #162  
    Well, unions do serve a purpose..its just not in B.C.
    After 8 years of a heavy socialist, communist almost (mind you there really is no difference) party in power, the unions have an almost unchecked omnipotent power. Over the past year with the anti-socialist Liberals in power, the unions have shut down schools, hospitals, doctors offices and extended care homes all because they want better wages (even though our nurses, teachers, and doctors are some of the best paid in the country, let alone continent). BC teachers are actually making more money than some teachers in America....but they want MORE! Oh well....BC has always been a very socialist city, still full of successful hippies who grew up and assimilated into the corporate world but kept some of their communist values...
    Alex (The Great II).
  3. #163  
    Originally posted by ernieba1
    Gee, thanks. Sure there are some- ok, a LOT of minors like that. But there are also some who aren't. Let me also say that the are probably plenty of voters who are the same. Put yourself in a 17 year old's shoes and think about how it feels to be told that you are easily manipulated. Some of us youths read the paper, watch the news, participate in visorcentral discussion boards , and think for ourselves.
    I LOVE it when other people prove your point for you. (and again- NONE of this is meant towards you, personally, and most of it can apply to people of any age!)

    You can manipulate teens so easily by playing on the 'I'm an independent, rebellious kinda person- I do my own thinking' bit. Don'tcha LOVE how TV and the ads tell teens "Be your own person- do things exactly the way we tell you!"

    I KNOW teens watch TV- even news programs and political ads, and I know they read- even ads, columns, and that sort of thing... and I KNOW they are being manipulated by it big time.

    I have 4 kids, from 21 to 12. The oldest three are females. It is so obvious that they are being massively manipulated by careful, expensive media techniques that it would be hilarious if it were not so tragic. If I dare point it out, then I am automatically in the wrong- they OBVIOUSLY came to this behavior or conclusion on their very own- often using the exact same words of the most recent ad.

    Like I said- we are ALL suspectible to it (I have a whole list of things we believe because the media tell us to!), but young people generally lack the life experience and resources to resist the influence more so than older folk.
    Do what you can, with what you have, where you are at!
  4.    #164  
    I know your going to shoot me down for this, but I am a 17 year old who is above all of that. I am aware that seeing certain makes me envious and drool (especially food ads after I haven't eaten in a while) but then I sit back and contemplate why I want that product or why that ad makes me want to do what it says. If it is because the music gets me pumped, I download the song and listen to it because I like the song not the product. If it's because the ad was so good, than I watch it and enjoy it. I have never seen an ad for Handspring, but got one based on a friend's recommendation, the reviews here, and reviews elsewhere. I never buy ANYTHING because it looks good. Even my clothes, I buy Tilly clothes because they are plain, durable and great for traveling (long story). I've never listened to ads and I don't buy anything based on the ads..I don't even eat at MacDonalds or other fast food joints (shudder). I went into a MacDonalds once in the past year, and that was just to use the washroom, and the smell of grease! YUCK!
    Alex (The Great II)
  5. #165  
    just curious, tantousha: what kind of polish do you use for your halo?
    (I need some for mine.)


    (okay ... time for me to go to bed ...)
    The light at the end of your tunnel has been disconnected due to non-payment. Please remit funds immediately for restoration of hope.
  6.    #166  
    That's a good one...at school I created a joke that I was God and now everybody signed my yearbook saying they bowed before me...sorry 'bout that, I just couldn't resist, oh well...I do have flaws, I am overly-controlling and a nasty procrastinator.
    Alex.
  7. #167  
    http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/...864567659.html
    I never thought I would say it, but I actually think Bush did something right..
    Let palestinians get a peacefull leader and let israel retreat to the '67 borders, create a palestinian state (optional big wall inbetween the 2) and live peacefully together...

    I really hope the 2 parties will pick this offer up...
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  8. #168  
    Originally posted by ernieba1
    Here's a clean issue to discuss- in November 2004, I'll be 17, annd some of my friends will be 18. First of all, forget about them. Why shouldn't a seventeen year old not be allowed to vote? Because I can't make the right decision? That's bs. [...]
    No, it has nothing to do with whether or not you could make the right decision. It has to do with societal attitudes towards an arbitrary age where one is considered an 'adult' or 'responsible' for one's own actions. In USian society, this has vacilated between 18 and 21 within recent memory (although some states have differed on occasion). Personally, I think our whole current execution of the concept is deeply flawed. We need to pick an age and stick to it. Why is 18 OK to fight and die for the country and vote (it should be noted that the latter was changed from 21 because of the former), but you can't have a beer?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  9. #169  
    Originally posted by ernieba1
    [...] Put yourself in a 17 year old's shoes and think about how it feels to be told that you are easily manipulated. [...]
    FYI...many people say the exact same thing about the general populace regardless of age. Personally, I don't care about age as a factor in voting. I'm more inclined towards stakeholder bases, i.e. the people who will be directly affected by a thing being allowed to have a say in that thing. Indirect effect is often a poor motivator to people considering all sides of an issue. An example of this is property tax in our state. We have what's called a 'homestead exemption'. This is basically the first $75,000 of value of a person's home is exempt from property tax. This means that 90+% of homeowners pay little to no property tax. However, we have one of the highest millage rates for the people that _do_ pay property tax, because whenever there's a new proposed property tax, very few have a problem voting for it because they don't pay property tax directly. What they usually fail to realize, though, is that they _are_ paying for it in the form of higher prices from the business owners who pay a high property tax.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  10. #170  
    Originally posted by Toby
    No, it has nothing to do with whether or not you could make the right decision. It has to do with societal attitudes towards an arbitrary age where one is considered an 'adult' or 'responsible' for one's own actions. In USian society, this has vacilated between 18 and 21 within recent memory (although some states have differed on occasion). Personally, I think our whole current execution of the concept is deeply flawed. We need to pick an age and stick to it. Why is 18 OK to fight and die for the country and vote (it should be noted that the latter was changed from 21 because of the former), but you can't have a beer?
    Hear! hear! couldn't agree more...
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  11. #171  
    I'm almost afraid to resurrect this thread but...

    has anyone's opinions changed after the recent election with the Republicans gaining control over the Senate and House, allowing Supreme Court justices to now retire and have a conservative replacement?
    Blue Visor Deluxe ~ Clie T615 ~ Zire 71 ~ Treo 650 ~ Palm Centro
  12.    #172  
    Noooo!!! I just lost my post!! Anyhew to paraphrase:
    This thread is dead...along with the Democrats. I just hope you all realize that by voting in mostly republican you guys have voted away any kind of competition to openly scrutinize and question everything the Republicans try to pass. You basically now have an elected dictatorship. Hmm...If Bush wants he could just pass a bill disbanding all the other political parties from participating in the next election, get his republican buddies to pass it and then he's president for as long as he wants (or until the American public catches on and decides to riot)...Hey, it worked for Hitler.
    Alex.
    Goodbye my lovely Treo
    HELLO TG50
  13. #173  
    This is not the first time a single party has controlled the Legislative and Executive branches. Get a grip on reality, and stop making ridiculous comparisons.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  14. #174  
    Originally posted by terrysalmi
    I'm almost afraid to resurrect this thread but...

    has anyone's opinions changed after the recent election with the Republicans gaining control over the Senate and House, allowing Supreme Court justices to now retire and have a conservative replacement?
    Monopolies in general make me a bit wary, but I think the Democratic Party lost this one more than the Republicans won it. First, they insisted they had to authorize military action in Iraq, then they claimed the vote was timed to win the election ... you might as well say "If voters knew what we Democrats really felt, then they would vote against us."

    Then there was the unending, reflexive criticism; never couched in terms of an alternate strategy. It's no wonder they were viewed as a roadblock.

    It's not a good thing that the Democratic Party has basically convinced the voters to ignore them. The Democrats seriously need to come up with an actual, alternate plan or throw their support behind Bush.
  15. #175  
    Many democratic countries have the same party through the legislative and executive branches. Indeed in a parliamentary system it has to be that way (I think). I don't see Canada, Australia, France, Germany, the UK, and others degrading into dictatorship. In all those countries the ruler is of the same party or coalition as the majority of the legislature.
  16. #176  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    In all those countries the ruler is of the same party or coalition as the majority of the legislature.
    That's true, and it's why I think parliaments are intrinsically more vulnerable to voting in dictators than a government which splits executive, legislative, and judicial powers. There's fewer targets to take over.
  17. #177  
    Originally posted by tantousha
    Noooo!!! I just lost my post!! Anyhew to paraphrase:
    This thread is dead...along with the Democrats. I just hope you all realize that by voting in mostly republican you guys have voted away any kind of competition to openly scrutinize and question everything the Republicans try to pass. You basically now have an elected dictatorship. Hmm...If Bush wants he could just pass a bill disbanding all the other political parties from participating in the next election, get his republican buddies to pass it and then he's president for as long as he wants (or until the American public catches on and decides to riot)...Hey, it worked for Hitler.
    Alex.
    Yikes. You understanding of American Constitutional Law is quite apparent.
    The PResident can't just cjange the rules of American Govt. whenever he feels, that is why we have three equal areas - checks and balances.

    And please don't start with the Hitler - Bush Comparisions. You disrespect the memory of millions that died due to his regime.
  18. #178  
    Originally posted by tantousha
    Noooo!!! I just lost my post!! Anyhew to paraphrase:
    This thread is dead...along with the Democrats. I just hope you all realize that by voting in mostly republican you guys have voted away any kind of competition to openly scrutinize and question everything the Republicans try to pass. You basically now have an elected dictatorship. Hmm...If Bush wants he could just pass a bill disbanding all the other political parties from participating in the next election, get his republican buddies to pass it and then he's president for as long as he wants (or until the American public catches on and decides to riot)...Hey, it worked for Hitler.
    Alex.
    I have ignored this thread for too long, like others assuming it was about coupons. However, I just read it in its entirity from Post One to the Last Post. My only comment, other than "whew", is that tantousha, you evidently forgot the stance you were last taking regarding the American Republican party. Your last few posts, granted they were in June, discussed how the party you support in Canada is more similiar to the Republican party. But I only noticed this b/c just read the entire thread.

    Ahem, carry on, boys!
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