Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 2345678910 LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 185
  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Sorry, been out of the mix awhile. So, are you saying the tobacco companies, by selling pot, can rebuild their public image? [...]
    Um, no. I'm saying that they already have a lot of infrastructure in place which could likely easily be re-tooled to a similar crop.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  2. groovy's Avatar
    Posts
    941 Posts
    Global Posts
    955 Global Posts
    #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Um, no. I'm saying that they already have a lot of infrastructure in place which could likely easily be re-tooled to a similar crop.
    Okay, my misunderstanding. Do you they (the Big ones) will be willing to go there in light (or even in spite of) of the anti-tobacco bent the country has been on lately?
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Okay, my misunderstanding. Do you they (the Big ones) will be willing to go there in light (or even in spite of) of the anti-tobacco bent the country has been on lately?
    lol I hadn't thought of that. soon people in places like california could be allowed to smoke pot in restaurants when they are legally prohibited from smoking cigarettes.

    now THAT's funny
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Okay, my misunderstanding. Do you they (the Big ones) will be willing to go there in light (or even in spite of) of the anti-tobacco bent the country has been on lately?
    If it becomes a legal business, do you think they would care? They've just been handed a new market.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  5. groovy's Avatar
    Posts
    941 Posts
    Global Posts
    955 Global Posts
    #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    lol I hadn't thought of that. soon people in places like california could be allowed to smoke pot in restaurants when they are legally prohibited from smoking cigarettes.

    now THAT's funny
    I don't know if it will be legal but it's not out of the realm of possibility. People can get pretty snobbish about their vices. Fr example, one would think that cigarette smokers--being some of the most persecuted for their habits--would be sympathetic to others facing similar persecution. Not so. Go to just about any smoking area and light up a cigar...
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Well, anti-tobacco may be a misnomer. I probably should have said "anti-Big Tobacco". Big Tobacco comes with a lot of other baggage than just tobacco. They're basically accused of poisoning people through various means, only one of which is actual tobacco, for profit and covering up the science that proves it. My guess is that selling pot won't go very far in eliminating or even reducing this image. Lots of people in the pro-pot camp are anti-BIG (fill in the blank) corporate enterprises. So, they're not likely to garner any favor there. Neither are they likely to win over any fans in the Red States that have historically been anti-legalization but somewhat ambivalent to Big-tobacco.
    Speaking of misnomers, the Red State vs Blue State views on pot is actually one of them. There are probably about as many Red States that are doing decriminalization/legalization as there are Blue States and the same is true for those doing strict criminal enforcement. For example, Alaska is a Red state but pot is legal by state law in small quantities or as a live plant in the home but is illegal to sell or carry without a state license to do so for medical purposes. Wisconsin is a Blue state but pot possession is illegal under all conditions and in any quantity, no exceptions.

    The issue with "Big-tobacco" also depends a lot on how much of the poisons end up in their products during production. Tobacco on it's own is a natural "poison" but the real question is how much worse is the final product made by their processing methods and would their "infrastructure" end up poisoning pot products as well?
  7. groovy's Avatar
    Posts
    941 Posts
    Global Posts
    955 Global Posts
    #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    If it becomes a legal business, do you think they would care? They've just been handed a new market.
    Yes, actually I do. They may get into it at some point but I suspect they'll be sitting on the sidelines to see how public reaction goes. I don't see Phillip-Morris sending a fatty to the White House in celebration.
  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Yes, actually I do. They may get into it at some point but I suspect they'll be sitting on the sidelines to see how public reaction goes. I don't see Phillip-Morris sending a fatty to the White House in celebration.
    They already produce a product which they have 'enhanced' to become more concentrated and hence addictive than the 'natural' processes which existed before. The only concession they give to 'public reaction' is from a calculated marketing standpoint. They are already in dire straits domestically from that standpoint. I don't think they could afford to sit on the sidelines that long.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  9. groovy's Avatar
    Posts
    941 Posts
    Global Posts
    955 Global Posts
    #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    They already produce a product which they have 'enhanced' to become more concentrated and hence addictive than the 'natural' processes which existed before. The only concession they give to 'public reaction' is from a calculated marketing standpoint. They are already in dire straits domestically from that standpoint. I don't think they could afford to sit on the sidelines that long.
    That's right. They care that the public reaction will result in sales that outgrow legal risks. Now here's the question, what would the country be like if people smoked pot in roughly the same numbers and roughly the same frequency with which they smoked cigarettes?
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    That's right. They care that the public reaction will result in sales that outgrow legal risks. Now here's the question, what would the country be like if people smoked pot in roughly the same numbers and roughly the same frequency with which they smoked cigarettes?
    I think anything related to pot smoking for consumers and social implications would probably be more readily comparable to alcohol and the social limitations placed on that drug. You might see some carry over in social etiquette similar to smoking cigarettes since it is something that others near-by could be effected by but in general it's likely to be treated more closely to how alcohol is treated.
  11. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
       #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    I think anything related to pot smoking for consumers and social implications would probably be more readily comparable to alcohol and the social limitations placed on that drug. You might see some carry over in social etiquette similar to smoking cigarettes since it is something that others near-by could be effected by but in general it's likely to be treated more closely to how alcohol is treated.
    age restrictions and carding?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  12. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
       #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    That's right. They care that the public reaction will result in sales that outgrow legal risks. Now here's the question, what would the country be like if people smoked pot in roughly the same numbers and roughly the same frequency with which they smoked cigarettes?
    Pot doesn't cause cancer and other health related problems that cigarettes cause. So there's not really a direct comparison. But ok, what if? What would the country be like? (other than the wonderful new growth market twinkies pizza would find themselves in)
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  13. groovy's Avatar
    Posts
    941 Posts
    Global Posts
    955 Global Posts
    #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    I think anything related to pot smoking for consumers and social implications would probably be more readily comparable to alcohol and the social limitations placed on that drug. You might see some carry over in social etiquette similar to smoking cigarettes since it is something that others near-by could be effected by but in general it's likely to be treated more closely to how alcohol is treated.
    I think it's a bit more than social etiquette. If one can get lung cancer from second-hand smoke they can most certainly get high from it.
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    If one can get lung cancer from second-hand smoke they can most certainly get high from it.
    Indeed.
  15. groovy's Avatar
    Posts
    941 Posts
    Global Posts
    955 Global Posts
    #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Pot doesn't cause cancer and other health related problems that cigarettes cause. So there's not really a direct comparison. But ok, what if? What would the country be like? (other than the wonderful new growth market twinkies pizza would find themselves in)
    Well, if we're comparing it to alcohol we have to consider the effects of second-hand smoke, smoking on the job or before the job, smoking and driving, smoking in public places, smoking near children and other age-restriction considerations, etc. I honestly don't know what it would be like if pot was legalized but if it was consumed as frequently as cigarettes or alcohol I can't imagine it would be a plus for society.

    Don't get me wrong, that's not an argument one way or the other. I don't even know that it would be consumed that much. I'm just saying that if it does become that popular I can't see it being a net positive for the country.
  16. #136  
    Obviously law and etiquette would need to develop at the same time to deal with that change. It would be treated more like alcohol since it has a similar effect unlike tobacco which is simply feeding a chemical addiction, pot effects perception and mood similar to alcohol. There is already social norms developed and continuing to develop toward smoking and a lot of those would likely carry over to pot and possibly be defined in law for certain examples like you gave.

    As far as it being a net positive to the country, unless unhealthy production methods are used it's unlikely to end up as a net negative compared to what cigarettes and alcohol already do to the country as a whole. It'd be one more drug option but at least it would be one that doesn't carry any cumulative health risks.
  17. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
       #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Well, if we're comparing it to alcohol we have to consider the effects of second-hand smoke, smoking on the job or before the job, smoking and driving, smoking in public places, smoking near children and other age-restriction considerations, etc. I honestly don't know what it would be like if pot was legalized but if it was consumed as frequently as cigarettes or alcohol I can't imagine it would be a plus for society.

    Don't get me wrong, that's not an argument one way or the other. I don't even know that it would be consumed that much. I'm just saying that if it does become that popular I can't see it being a net positive for the country.
    Again, it sounds like you're mixing tobacco with pot, which doesn't have near the health issues. Other than the concerns over possibly inadvertantly intoxicating someone, there's that.... But surely you've been to a concert where there was plenty of pot smoke in the air. Did you consider yourself impaired?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  18. groovy's Avatar
    Posts
    941 Posts
    Global Posts
    955 Global Posts
    #138  
    Obviously law and etiquette would need to develop at the same time to deal with that change. It would be treated more like alcohol since it has a similar effect unlike tobacco which is simply feeding a chemical addiction, pot effects perception and mood similar to alcohol. There is already social norms developed and continuing to develop toward smoking and a lot of those would likely carry over to pot and possibly be defined in law for certain examples like you gave
    Another thing to keep in mind is that the combination of marijuana and alcohol increases the effects of both. So, for example, a BAC of 0.08% may not accurately reflect the abilities of someone who has consumed both alcohol and marijuana.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    As far as it being a net positive to the country, unless unhealthy production methods are used it's unlikely to end up as a net negative compared to what cigarettes and alcohol already do to the country as a whole. It'd be one more drug option but at least it would be one that doesn't carry any cumulative health risks.
    Actually, the cumulative risks are different but they are there. Just because evidence related to lung cancer is inconclusive, there are other known cumulative risks. Like any form of smoking, long term use can cause chronic bronchitis and emphysema and is generally a bad idea for people with pulmonary disease. Also, the chronic alteration of dopamine pathways can increase the risk of chemical dependency and even psychosis. Long-term use has been linked to an increased risk of schizophrenia in certain people, anxiety and depression and will likely exacerbate symptoms in people with existing anxiety and depressive disorders.
  19. groovy's Avatar
    Posts
    941 Posts
    Global Posts
    955 Global Posts
    #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Again, it sounds like you're mixing tobacco with pot, which doesn't have near the health issues. Other than the concerns over possibly inadvertantly intoxicating someone, there's that.... But surely you've been to a concert where there was plenty of pot smoke in the air. Did you consider yourself impaired?
    I think a more likely scenario would be the effects on a child raised in a small home or apartment with chronic users over the course of years.
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Another thing to keep in mind is that the combination of marijuana and alcohol increases the effects of both. So, for example, a BAC of 0.08% may not accurately reflect the abilities of someone who has consumed both alcohol and marijuana.



    Actually, the cumulative risks are different but they are there. Just because evidence related to lung cancer is inconclusive, there are other known cumulative risks. Like any form of smoking, long term use can cause chronic bronchitis and emphysema and is generally a bad idea for people with pulmonary disease. Also, the chronic alteration of dopamine pathways can increase the risk of chemical dependency and even psychosis. Long-term use has been linked to an increased risk of schizophrenia in certain people, anxiety and depression and will likely exacerbate symptoms in people with existing anxiety and depressive disorders.
    Marijuana has no physical dependencies. None at all. I'm not saying someone can't become mentally addicted to it, but there are no physical withdraw symptoms when even heavy smokers stop cold turkey.

    And there are other ways to ingest THC. Vaporizing is becoming more popular, and of course there are edibles.

    The California law puts most of the same restrictions on marijuana as alcohol, so public consumption will not be allowed, along with smoking around minors. As far as long term effects go, the ones you listed are few and far between. As a daily smoker for almost 10 years I can tell you it helps those things more than hurts them.
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 2345678910 LastLast

Posting Permissions