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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by notaphonegeek View Post
    Just out of curiosity (not trying to insult), did you have the same type of empathy when SNL and other Democrats, comedians and others (including my friends) made fun of Reagan when he was diagnosed with Alzheimers?
    Nope. Didn't stand in front of the man and mock him to his face. Nor would I.
  2. groovy's Avatar
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    #42  
    Hey, the guy wants to get in people's faces then he's got to have thick enough skin to hear what people think of his views. I think labeling this "mocking" is a stretch. In fact, I think this whole thread is a stretch but that's just my own personal opinion.
  3.    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Hey, the guy wants to get in people's faces then he's got to have thick enough skin to hear what people think of his views. I think labeling this "mocking" is a stretch. In fact, I think this whole thread is a stretch but that's just my own personal opinion.
    The situation was a number of demonstrators from both sides at a congresswoman's office. It's as "staged" as any demonstration. That doesn't explain the cruel taunting of someone with a medical condition. It is disgraceful but exactly typical of the right wing of this country, who have no emphathy or caring for others who are less fortunate. To compare this attitude with PETA throwing red paint on fur just shows the lack of perspective of this portion of society.

    This is pathetic behavior. And this person could very well be you, or someone in your family who might have been dropped from their insurance because of their disease. Do you think you might have a different opinion if that were the case?

    Truly pitiful attitudes.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Hey, the guy wants to get in people's faces then he's got to have thick enough skin to hear what people think of his views. I think labeling this "mocking" is a stretch. In fact, I think this whole thread is a stretch but that's just my own personal opinion.
    this
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by notaphonegeek View Post
    I responded by saying that Dems and Reps BOTH use these types of tactics. I then posted two more extreme examples of Liberal misbehavior, to show that it's 2 sided.

    Thanks
    You definitely make a point in that both the Tea Party and PETA commit atrocious behavior, but under no circumstances does it excuse either behavior. I find the acts of both groups inexcusable, and would not support either group, politically or morally.

    I personally feel that both PETA and the Tea Party are groups of immoral, misguided zealots, and I'd be worried for the United States of America if either of them rise to any sort of political prevalence within this country.
    Last edited by draven76; 03/18/2010 at 06:51 AM.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    Thank you for the link. I find this section especially interesting:

    # Personal Attacks - Do not flame, insult, or post a personal attack against another. Be courteous, not rude. Do not troll or respond to trolls. Posters adding on to the same flaming or insulting post can earn the same infraction.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I don't think this needs much comment from me. The video speaks for itself. Hate much?


    Think Progress Ľ Health care reform protesters mock man carrying sign saying he has Parkinsonís disease.
    So you are ok with bankrupting the country and socializing medicine, as long as no one calls names or is mean to someone who is infortunate enough to have a horrible illness.

    Ok, that's an interesting solution...
  8.    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    So you are ok with bankrupting the country and socializing medicine, as long as no one calls names or is mean to someone who is infortunate enough to have a horrible illness.

    Ok, that's an interesting solution...
    Tell me, have you stopped beating your wife?

    If you mean am I in favor of having access to quality health care for all citizens of the US, that answer is yes.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Please feel free to use that "Report Post" feature at any time.

    Moderators are allowed to get away with things that us normal posters can't. It's just something that is known in here. Report a moderator? Right. Nice joke to start the morning off with. Oh oh....did I just call out a moderator? Bad Clem....bad.
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  10.    #50  
    It is no great revalation that the Tea Party is an on-going public relations disaster. With its rallies liberally (no pun intended) littered with racist and sometimes fascist imagery, the upstart bastion of american social conservatism has faced and uphill climb in the mainstream press. Even so, the footage of the Columbus rally is likely to be a serious bodyblow for the movement.

    Certainly few who see the video will change their opinion of the Tea Party this late in the game but the light in which it casts the anti-healthcare reform movement as a whole is quite negative. While the Tea Party has taken a vocal stance on healthcare it has not really had an opportunity to become emblamatic of the anti-healthcare movement. Now, in the final moments of the healthcare battle, that seems about to change.

    For many Americans, what happened in Columbus is what the healthcare issue is all about and the disdainful way in which the anti-healthcare protesters fling a few bills at the subject of their derision is a perfect illustration of everything that is wrong with the small-government narrative.

    If this is what Conservative opposition to healthcare reform looks like, the Democrats have already won.
    Political Darwin Award

    Let's hope so.
  11. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #51  
    Hello Everyone,

    While I certainly do not support mocking someone, or harassing them in this fashion.

    However, if someone is trying to take an instance of this sort of deplorable behavior and apply it broadly to the many people who DO NOT do things like this, well, that simply isn't reasonable.

    I note this is the at least the third attempt to project the actions (as bad as they may be) of individuals or a few onto the entire group that is disliked for reasons beyond these bad actions (prior to them).

    In other words--you dislike these Tea Party People (I'm not big on protesting in general), and look for and find an example of some of them acting like total jerks. True as it is--that isn't exactly a stunning find. Amongst any group, you will find some percentage of total jerks.

    There is no issue criticizing someone who does something like this. But projecting that on people who are innocent of any such action doesn't seem to approach reasonable.

    KAM
  12. #52  
    The video was strange. Teabaggers upset about spending money on others healthcare then go and toss money at a sick guy to pay for his healthcare.
    Sprint|Samsung Epic
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Tell me, have you stopped beating your wife?

    If you mean am I in favor of having access to quality health care for all citizens of the US, that answer is yes.
    It can be done without socialism. Somehow we manage to have car insurance, and companies competing for my insurance business. The problem isn't a lack of socialism, it's too much already.

    i'd happily donate to a fund to pay insurance premiums for those that are in need. In fact, I'll bet I donate more to charity (as a percentage of my income) than most in congress or hollywood. They are great at spending other people's money.

    Another proof point to this - Americans have a history of major generousity. Look at the public response to Haiti, Indonesia. Even disasters in counties we consider to be enemies, such as the earthquake in Iran.

    We become less generous when it becomes a tax rather than a voluntary effort.

    In some ways it is similar to why we like Pre and not iPhone. We don't like being told what to do with our phone.

    They can charge everyone with insurance another few bucks and easily cover the people that really need and cant afford insurance. That can be done without creating a multi-billion govt agency and a multi-trillion dollar debt.

    Think of how you solve money and insurance problems in your personal budget. Hopefully it isn't be going deeper in to debt.

    If we work on solving the right problem rather than missing the root cause and creating other problems, we'd be better off. That's what competition is all about.

    Between social security and medicare/midicaid, the govt already controls about 48% of the current healthcare industry. And they heavily regulate the rest (that's why you can't buy insurance across a state line...)

    With that much control, perhaps you can see that the current mess is at least partially due to excess govt involvement. Rarely does doing more of what isn't working going to somehow fix what isn't working. That's insane.

    So, competition, an opportunity for Americans to be generous voluntarily, less govt... sounds like a plan.

    See, I am all for helping others and solving problems. What stirs up anger is the idea that this is an all/nothing proposition, and the realization that congress is solving the wrong problem.

    Seriously, if I thought the current direction was going to solve the problem, I'd be all for it.

    I think Obama misunderstood the polls that said we all wanted "change". I wanted "change", but not in the direction of socialism. What I had in mind was change back to the things Regan did. Heck, even Clinton saw the value of reducing and reforming welfare - over the objections of his party.

    For the past 10 years, the only difference between democrats and republicans has been:

    Democrats = spend like drunken sailors and propose higher taxes.
    Republicans = spend like drunken sailors, and just borrow it.

    There is a common thread in that formula... spending.

    We all have to balance our personal budgets (except when buying from the Palm AppStore). So it should go with govt.

    for the last 10 years, both parties were taking different roads to the same conclusion. A massive debt to leave for our kids to figure out. Something like $40,000 per person. Do you realize that each of your kids and/or grandkids owes $40,000 (mostly to China) on the day they were born?

    Are we clear? I want to help the poor. In fact, I *do* help the poor. What I want congress to do is get out of our way so we can *all* help the poor.

    I don't *hate* anyone. But I also don't appreciate being labeled because I dont want uncle sam's hands in my back pocket.

    I see complaints about what people consider to be "ripping us off" by how Sprint or Verizon or AT&T find new ways to charge us for the miracles we can do with our phones (which wasn't possible until the phone system stopped being a regulated monopoly, btw). The extra charges tacked on by phone companies, cable companies, airlines, etc... are nothing compared to the recursive taxes we pay for stuff.

    Don't hate the player, hate the game. I say the game to hate is socialism, not the citizens that pay the taxes.
  14. #54  
    By the way, why does PreCentral host such off-topic forum threads? I never realized they were here until I saw this thread. There are a million other places to have these discussions.

    ...just sayin...
  15. #55  
    Just thought I'd offer some thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    It can be done without socialism. Somehow we manage to have car insurance, and companies competing for my insurance business. The problem isn't a lack of socialism, it's too much already.
    Car insurance is mandatory, thereby tweaking the demand/supply curve. It's not a great example of a free market.
    They can charge everyone with insurance another few bucks and easily cover the people that really need and cant afford insurance.
    But that's just a tax by another name, isn't it?
    That can be done without creating a multi-billion govt agency and a multi-trillion dollar debt.
    The CBO released its score less than an hour ago. "Comprehensive health care reform will cost the federal government $940 billion over a ten-year period, but will increase revenue and cut other costs by a greater amount, leading to a reduction of $130 billion in the federal deficit over the same period. It will cut the deficit by $1.2 trillion over the next ten years."
    Between social security and medicare/midicaid, the govt already controls about 48% of the current healthcare industry.
    Both of those programs are wildly popular.
    And they heavily regulate the rest (that's why you can't buy insurance across a state line...)
    They heavily regulate because otherwise it would create a race to the bottom, virtually guaranteeing that you would see coverage lost, not gained.
    With that much control, perhaps you can see that the current mess is at least partially due to excess govt involvement. Rarely does doing more of what isn't working going to somehow fix what isn't working. That's insane.
    Here's a great, statistical modeling example of how easy it is to find cost overruns. We cannot act on them because they are private entities who choose to maintain the current system because it is profitable.

    economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/to-control-health-care-costs-trace-the-spending
    I think Obama misunderstood the polls that said we all wanted "change". I wanted "change", but not in the direction of socialism. What I had in mind was change back to the things Regan did.
    Reagan followed the biggest tax cut in history with the biggest tax increase in history when he realized we were in serious deficit spending. Bush followed Reagan with yet another tax increase, realizing that we continued to need revenue to fill the gap. Should we follow their example? Obama's stimulus plan cut taxes by $300 billion on the middle class, a gigantic tax cut by any measure other than Bush's positively absurd $1T+ tax cut.
    For the past 10 years, the only difference between democrats and republicans has been:
    That's not exactly fair when Republicans were in virtually complete control for 8 of those 10 years. I agree that spending is higher and on the wrong things, but that's always a complaint of the electorate.
    Don't hate the player, hate the game. I say the game to hate is socialism, not the citizens that pay the taxes.
    I just don't think the spectre of socialism is something we should be fearing. It's not like we're looking at a 60% tax rate on top earners (far from it in reality).
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by notaphonegeek View Post
    No, two wrongs don't make a right. I was making a point that events are staged by both sides to gain media attention.

    The man purposely sat in front of the Republican protesters for a reason. That reason? To get a rise out of them in front of the camera. It's done all of the time. Each side does this and spins it so that the sheeple can get all riled up. The problem is that their are too many pots calling kettles black in this Nation.

    By the way, the Sea Shepherd Society is an admitted left wing organization that was started by Paul Watson because he was kicked out of Greenpeace because he was too mutinous.
    Paul Watson, Sea Shepherd and Greenpeace: some facts | Greenpeace USA

    I don't doubt that the guys sign said that, but I have a family member with Parkinsons. That doesn't make them incapable of being a jerk. In fact my great Aunt is a pain in the **** and the only thing that keeps me from telling her that is because she's family... not because she has Parkinsons.

    BTW, I apologize. I thought you were talking to me. My BADD
    Wow...just.....wow.

    He purposely sat in front of republicans to get a rise out of them? thats like me saying I pruposely put my face in front of your hand and you punched me...I guess thats my own fault.

    Trying to link Sea Shepard with liberals is such a stretch its a joke. I cannot respect another thing you say, because that is simply the dumbest thing i have ever heard. not trying to be rude. I am being totally serious. that is incredibly dumb. just...wow.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    It can be done without socialism. Somehow we manage to have car insurance, and companies competing for my insurance business. The problem isn't a lack of socialism, it's too much already.



    For the past 10 years, the only difference between democrats and republicans has been:

    Democrats = spend like drunken sailors and propose higher taxes.
    Republicans = spend like drunken sailors, and just borrow it.

    In what way has ANYTHING that has been done or being done fall into the category of socalism? I think people use the word without understanding the meaning. If you mean healthcare, there is no governement option...therefore not socialism. ONLY private insurance. Let me repeat, there is no public option.

    As to your second point....do you remember the Clinton years? He balanced the budget. And we ended up with a surplus.

    You cant just say democrats spend and tax. From the evidence, republicans spend and create deficits, democrats clean up the mess afterwards. We'll have to see how this one plays out currently.
  18. jhonnyD2's Avatar
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    #58  
    nice work ...
  19. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Nope. Didn't stand in front of the man and mock him to his face. Nor would I.
    Well, the question I think would be, should the behavior of a few be used to attack everyone who is on the same side of an issue. The answer, obviously is no.

    KAM
  20. #60  
    Help a guy thats down and out on his luck..
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