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  1. KAM1138
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    #461  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Actually, the campaign stayed on point very well. Many analysts pointed that out during the campaign.

    Actually it's completely supportable, they're called exit polls.
    Staying on message and actually talking about substance are different things.

    KAM
  2. #462  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Hello Everyone,

    Here's an article explaining the fiscal issues a bit.

    The Lie of Fiscal Responsibility - Reason Magazine

    Excerpt:
    Why does all this matter? It's not just the cherry-picking of figures and the rhetorical deception, it's the country's overall fiscal future. Thanks to a spiraling deficit, the economy is chugging merrily towards a broken bridge over a rocky canyon—a fact that almost no one from either party is willing to do anything about. America, according to the CBO, is on an "unsustainable" path, and the nation's solid-gold credit rating may be at risk. So it doesn't matter how many times blinkered legislators repeat to themselves, "I think I can, I think I can": Nothing short of significant cutbacks to entitlement spending is going to magically transform the U.S. budget into the little engine that could.

    Instead, politicians are paying for new entitlements by shifting money from unsustainable programs—money that ought to have gone toward getting America's fiscal house in order.

    Democrats made history all right—but only by sacrificing the future.

    End Excerpt

    KAM
    You wouldn't happen to have a more balanced source for your point pieces would you. I mean Reason is a Libertarian magazine.
  3. #463  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Staying on message and actually talking about substance are different things.

    KAM
    The message was the substance.
  4. Micael's Avatar
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    #464  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Again you keep trying to say "this bill". Cut it out, you're playing word games. Read what I'm saying, this vote last night is the delivery of the major health care points President Obama campaigned on. Simple fact.
    I'm not playing any games daThomas. Maybe we're saying two different things, and I'm just being obtuse again. It isn't intentional.

    Yes, I agree that Obama campained on change, and specifically he campained on change to health care.

    Yes, I agree that he's delivered change to health care, though I found it distasteful and underhanded in how it was executed in Congress.

    No, I don't agree that the people who for voted for Obama's change got what they expected to get - from both sides of the aisle. And I think the polls bear this out. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my impression.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  5. groovy's Avatar
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    #465  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    You wouldn't happen to have a more balanced source for your point pieces would you. I mean Reason is a Libertarian magazine.
    And the Kaiser Foundation is pro public-funded health care.
  6. #466  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Yes, I agree that he's delivered change to health care, though I found it distasteful and underhanded in how it was executed in Congress.

    No, I don't agree that the people who for voted for Obama's change got what they expected to get - from both sides of the aisle. And I think the polls bear this out. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my impression.
    The legislation was done the only way it could have been done given the republican waterloo strategy.

    The American people realize that they got nothing from the republican side of the aisle and that the democrats actually got congress working. Polls are already bearing that out. The health care change people voted for is what's in the bill that passed last night.
  7. Micael's Avatar
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    #467  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    The legislation was done the only way it could have been done given the republican waterloo strategy.

    The American people realize that they got nothing from the republican side of the aisle and that the democrats actually got congress working. Polls are already bearing that out. The health care change people voted for is what's in the bill that passed last night.
    Nice revisionist theory, but sorry - saying it doesn't make it so. The republicans weren't in control, nor were they the ones holding you up. The blue dogs were... but I'm beginning to suspect that that was a ruse as well. They were always being counted in, and they simply held out for special deals. So much for sticking to your principles.

    So you're saying congress should do things by any means necessary, hook or crook, constitution be damned?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  8. #468  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    So you're saying congress should do things by any means necessary, hook or crook, constitution be damned?
    I don't believe that's how it was done, but of course repeating it often enough will make it true, right.
  9. #469  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Nice revisionist theory, but sorry - saying it doesn't make it so. The republicans weren't in control, nor were they the ones holding you up. The blue dogs were... but I'm beginning to suspect that that was a ruse as well. They were always being counted in, and they simply held out for special deals. So much for sticking to your principles.

    So you're saying congress should do things by any means necessary, hook or crook, constitution be damned?
    Yes, they should, as someone here said, you can always take it to court to get it fixed. Might take a while but hey.... in the mean time things health care wise will get better.
  10. Micael's Avatar
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    #470  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    I don't believe that's how it was done, but of course repeating it often enough will make it true, right.
    Actually, thats the tactic of the left.

    Bush went in to Iraq to find weapons of mass destruction, right?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  11. #471  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Actually, thats the tactic of the left.

    Bush went in to Iraq to find weapons of mass destruction, right?
    Apperantly, but from what i hear, didnt find any, because they didnt exist.
    And just how many billions or trillions has that cost you.. but hey whos counting.
  12. Micael's Avatar
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    #472  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    Apperantly, but from what i hear, didnt find any, because they didnt exist.
    And just how many billions or trillions has that cost you.. but hey whos counting.
    Yes, that's the often repeated myth I'm talking about... thanks.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  13. #473  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Actually, thats the tactic of the left.

    Bush went in to Iraq to find weapons of mass destruction, right?
    That's what this guy says:



  14. Micael's Avatar
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    #474  
    Well if Karl said it, it must be true. I didn't know you liked and trusted Karl.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  15. #475  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Yes, that's the often repeated myth I'm talking about... thanks.
    which myth are you talking about the one where they found wmd, or that the war is actually making the US money?
  16. Micael's Avatar
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    #476  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    which myth are you talking about the one where they found wmd, or that the war is actually making the US money?
    Take your pick! lol

    The point is that if you repeat is often enough and long enough, sheeple will pick up on it as truth. You know this is true, and don't even try to say the left doesn't employ it.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  17. #477  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Well if Karl said it, it must be true. I didn't know you liked and trusted Karl.
    Well, it's in a book so it has to be true.

  18. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #478  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    You wouldn't happen to have a more balanced source for your point pieces would you. I mean Reason is a Libertarian magazine.
    Feel free to point out anything you think is inaccurate.

    Just because you might not like the source doesn't mean it is not true. Maybe it isn't true--go ahead and refute it if you think so.

    KAM
  19. #479  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Feel free to point out anything you think is inaccurate.

    Just because you might not like the source doesn't mean it is not true. Maybe it isn't true--go ahead and refute it if you think so.

    KAM
    Sorry, ever since I ran into Libertarians while protesting the first Gulf War, I try to stay very clear of them.
  20. Micael's Avatar
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    #480  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Sorry, ever since I ran into Libertarians while protesting the first Gulf War, I try to stay very clear of them.
    Please tell! Now I'm totally curious. What happened?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

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