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  1. #361  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Ah yes. You two do have many things in common.
    Which two? BTW, was not answering my questions about the Department of Ed avoidance, or simply a lack of time?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  2. #362  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Yes, like an understanding of principles, history, basic economic realities, the Constitution. [...]
    You forgot the rage and anger.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  3. #363  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Please do stop reading my posts, and wasting my time then.

    KAM
    ohhh my... lolol
  4. #364  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    I'm pretty sure you aren't quoting me, so kindly do not attribute something to me that I didn't say, or based on your "lazy" recollection.

    KAM
    roflmsao.. you are a hoot.... lololol gonna take your ball an bat an go home now..lolol
  5.    #365  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Yes, like an understanding of principles, history, basic economic realities, the Constitution. You know--the things that people like you depend on distorting in order to continually forward your flawed, and damaging demands.

    I know you can't tolerate the existence of those who disagree with your demands, but yes, such people do exist. Now, I'm sure you will want to go enjoy your political victory so you can pretend to care about people and pretend that this will solve the problems that people like you created in the first place. Then when this fails like all other politically motivated disaster orchestrated by morons, you can advocate ANOTHER failure, blaming everyone but those actually responsible.

    Of course, given that you are so prone to denial of reality, I'm sure you will continue to blame someone like me.

    KAM
    You left out excessive vacuous verbosity and absence of compassion. Oh...and a lack of basic understanding of the health care system. Don't want to shortchange either one of you.
  6.    #366  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    That question deserves not an answer, but rather more questions:
    What does the Department of Education do?
    What percentage of funding do they provide to the average school district?
    What is their budget in comparison to the funding that they pass-through?
    Which two? If the shoe fits....

    Here. Feel free to look it up.

    U.S. Department of Education
    Last edited by davidra; 03/21/2010 at 05:23 PM.
  7. #367  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    You left out excessive vacuous verbosity
    KAM is certainly far more wordy than I am. I can understand to some extent your desire to make this ad hominem, but that's what's really vacuous here.
    and absence of compassion.
    Do you honestly believe you have enough information about either KAM or myself to make that statement?
    Oh...and a lack of basic understanding of the health care system.
    Incorrect. Can't speak for KAM, but I've actually worked with quite a few aspects of the health care system. I also have a basic understanding of psychology, but I'm having a hard time understanding this level of animosity.
    Don't want to shortchange either one of you.
    Then please answer the questions I asked regarding the Department of Education.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  8.    #368  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    I know you can't tolerate the existence of those who disagree with your demands, but yes, such people do exist. Now, I'm sure you will want to go enjoy your political victory so you can pretend to care about people and pretend that this will solve the problems that people like you created in the first place. Then when this fails like all other politically motivated disaster orchestrated by morons, you can advocate ANOTHER failure, blaming everyone but those actually responsible.

    KAM
    I'm curious. " ...other politically motivated disaster orchestrated by morons" would include what? Medicare? Social Security? Civil Rights? Medicare drug benefit? Just curious about all the morons in the US who love and support these programs.

    By the way....you're sputtering again. You do that when things don't go your way, I've noticed. And that seems to happen quite a bit these days.
  9.    #369  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    KAM is certainly far more wordy than I am. I can understand to some extent your desire to make this ad hominem, but that's what's really vacuous here.

    Do you honestly believe you have enough information about either KAM or myself to make that statement?

    Incorrect. Can't speak for KAM, but I've actually worked with quite a few aspects of the health care system. I also have a basic understanding of psychology, but I'm having a hard time understanding this level of animosity.

    Then please answer the questions I asked regarding the Department of Education.
    1. I'd like to see a word count. You've not been around these threads recently, but on a per post basis, it would be an interesting comparison.

    2. Probably.

    3. True. I believe you have more experience with the health care system than KAM. My apologies to you.

    4. Since I asked the question first that you chose not to answer, why don't you answer mine first? And feel free to use my link.
  10. #370  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    This is a complete cop-out and excuse for poor behavior.

    Perhaps it's because you're presenting yourself more as a class clown throwing spit balls rather than a serious participant in a discussion. As someone who has had several philosophical disagreements with KAM, I can assure you that when one honestly disagrees with him if your point isn't at least being acknowledged, the problem may lie on your end.
    ohhhhh pls, as i stated, my views are different from yours. now you start with the less then nice comments.. tch tch.. your views are yours, no matter how often you or kam tell me or others we are wrong, based on 200 plus year old ideals, that have absolutely little to no basis in the present world. You choose to believe what you believe, as do i. I would never deny you your right to your views. ever. Unless they caused harm to me or mine. lol. If you want to believe in a god, free market, or whatever you want. pls feel free. Isn't that what your precious constitution gives you the natural born right to do?

    are you afraid of the new world order? or are you afraid that the unwashed masses are going to take away what you perceive as yours? or is it both?

    whether your for or against obama, bush, or you just want it all to go back to a simpler time, when things were supposedly more black and white. I have seen a number of posts to me and others from Kam talking about the free market system. When ever there is a problem pointed out about this supposed perfect system, its given a name, ie manipulated, crony ism, or whatever the catch word of the day is. Stop quoting from some damn website. Say succinctly what you want. I and many others view the free market solution as too damn vague.
    And again, i will point out, the biggest problem with any damn system,was in the past, is still, will be in the future, is PEOPLE.

    Along with individuality comes free thought, with free thought, you have differing opinions. One of the things your constitution wants to guarantee is the right of the individual. Which is all fine and good. In a practical world, not alway attainable. Along with free thought, comes ideas that run contrary to what your constitution states, That all men are created equal. yadda yadda. Unless at the time of writing, you happened to be african, chinese, or any other race that was considered to be less then equal. Hell, you didnt even consider women your equals until recently.

    there are many many things in your constitution that have been changed. I am sure, some you would like to change back. Or as a couple of the much vaunted libertarians have stated, all the damn amendments should be torn out and burned. 1776 was a long time ago. Much you have to admit has changed.
    I am not saying your constitution is a bad, in fact its very good, hell an excellent document, something many country's should try to emulate. But again, each group of people are different, and what you have, is not always what others want or need. This applies to Americans as well. Many feel that what you want is just too damn over the top, I would suggest, that Obama and dems were elected in by the people, yes yes yes, you can point your finger at many many things, this is not what he she said when they were trying to get elected. lol thats life. That sort of thing has been going on for longer then the Christian religion has been around, far longer. People want, some people want more, some people want more enough, to do any damn thing they can to get it. None the less, he and they were voted in, your election results are not being contested. From all that i can find, the dems were voted in resoundingly, including Obama. This whole Tea bag thing is a weak attempt at a coup. We lost, we dont like what is now happening, we are going to change it come hell or high water. Sorta flies in the face of your constitution.

    well its been fun, hope you enjoyed the read. No matter what i say, you have your beliefs, as i and many others have theirs. Now smile damn it , its life. As sure as the sun will come up tomorrow, not much will have changed.
  11. #371  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Which two? If the shoe fits....
    You should know better than that. I ask questions that I sometimes already know the answer to in an effort to get someone to think about what they're saying. KAM would have posted a page worth of his position. We're quite different in that respect.
    Here. Feel free to look it up.
    I don't need to. I deal with at least on high-level professional educator on a daily basis. But thanks for indirectly admitting that you don't know.
    David, you may want to consider that there was a point to my questions beyond the simple questions. You may also be better served by not assuming you know what I think about X based on a preconceived notion of my political leanings.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  12. #372  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    1. I'd like to see a word count. You've not been around these threads recently, but on a per post basis, it would be an interesting comparison.
    Possibly, but KAM typically has more posts where he posts a position or opinion on its own. Since I started participating in online discussions on Usenet, my replies are typically more broken down into an attempt at conversational chunks.
    2. Probably.
    I can assure you that I do not lack compassion. While emotion is rarely my first response to most situations, that does not mean it is never a response. Also, one should not assume that we all display compassion in the same way.
    4. Since I asked the question first that you chose not to answer, why don't you answer mine first? And feel free to use my link.
    I did not answer your question because the answer was obvious. I pay a significant amount of taxes during the course of the year. The ED is funded by these taxes. The question was moot.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  13.    #373  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    You should know better than that. I ask questions that I sometimes already know the answer to in an effort to get someone to think about what they're saying. KAM would have posted a page worth of his position. We're quite different in that respect.

    I don't need to. I deal with at least on high-level professional educator on a daily basis. But thanks for indirectly admitting that you don't know.

    David, you may want to consider that there was a point to my questions beyond the simple questions. You may also be better served by not assuming you know what I think about X based on a preconceived notion of my political leanings.
    Yes, I'm quite aware why you asked the questions. I'm also perfectly willing to admit that I do not know everything there is to know about the Dept. of Education. But I do know that it provides money to schools and that it is supported by taxpayer money, which was the point I was making. Just don't think it deserves much more discussion. Sorry.
  14. #374  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    ohhhhh pls, as i stated, my views are different from yours. now you start with the less then nice comments.. tch tch..
    Perhaps you should look at your posts #383 and #384? How would you classify those? Really, it's the way you're presenting yourself. It may not be the way you are. Just pointing it out.
    your views are yours, no matter how often you or kam tell me or others we are wrong,
    I never said you were wrong other than within the context of the US system of government. You are free to believe in whatever system you wish.
    based on 200 plus year old ideals, that have absolutely little to no basis in the present world. You choose to believe what you believe, as do i. I would never deny you your right to your views. ever. Unless they caused harm to me or mine. lol. If you want to believe in a god, free market, or whatever you want. pls feel free. Isn't that what your precious constitution gives you the natural born right to do?
    Not according to the precepts upon which it was founded, but I suppose it would be foolish of me to expect you to seriously consider that subtlety.
    are you afraid of the new world order? or are you afraid that the unwashed masses are going to take away what you perceive as yours? or is it both?
    It would be neither.
    whether your for or against obama, bush, or you just want it all to go back to a simpler time, when things were supposedly more black and white.
    I'm no more for or against Obama than I was Bush (although I didn't vote for either). I've also no desire to go back to any particular 'simpler time'. That being said, change for the sake of change is not always positive.
    And again, i will point out, the biggest problem with any damn system,was in the past, is still, will be in the future, is PEOPLE.
    I agree, but the corollary to that is not that a different group of PEOPLE in the form of government is going to de facto give you a better outcome.
    Along with individuality comes free thought, with free thought, you have differing opinions. One of the things your constitution wants to guarantee is the right of the individual. Which is all fine and good. In a practical world, not alway attainable. Along with free thought, comes ideas that run contrary to what your constitution states, That all men are created equal. yadda yadda. Unless at the time of writing, you happened to be african, chinese, or any other race that was considered to be less then equal. Hell, you didnt even consider women your equals until recently.
    Which is one of the reasons why I'm fond of the US system. We may not get it right all the time, but our general trend is to work in the right direction. I come at it from a slightly different cultural perspective than most other USians since my ancestors took a different path than most to get here.
    there are many many things in your constitution that have been changed. I am sure, some you would like to change back.
    The only one I have a problem with was already repealed.
    well its been fun, hope you enjoyed the read.
    I did read it, but most of it was directed at someone other than me apparently.
    No matter what i say, you have your beliefs, as i and many others have theirs. Now smile damn it , its life. As sure as the sun will come up tomorrow, not much will have changed.
    The sun has yet to make a real appearance today.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  15. #375  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I find myself wondering why David Frum, conservative author, confirmed that (a) the Republican position was based upon creating "Obama's Waterloo", (b) the plan itself reflects many Republican ideas, and is by no means radical, (c) the Republican Party has been co-opted by the fringe of the party, (d) the positive outcomes of this bill make it impossible to repeal, and (e) the Waterloo will be the Republicans.

    Required Reading: [url= | FrumForum[/url]
    I don't doubt that republicans are hoping for this to be Obama's Waterloo (and in ssome ways he deserves it to be for what it will probably causeau

    but, I never claimed that either party is actually trying to solve a problem. They rarely do. That why most of us have such a dislike and distrust of congress. Equally likely the Dems are trying to make this the Rep waterloo, and set themselves up for 6 years of week opposition. Politics as usual rarely has anything to do with voters other than to bring home pork and buy votes.

    that's why we need to replace mos of them and hold them accountable for results. It been since clintons first term since we have seen congress accomplissh anything that benefited americans.
  16.    #376  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    that's why we need to replace mos of them and hold them accountable for results. It been since clintons first term since we have seen congress accomplissh anything that benefited americans.
    It must be wonderful to be able to determine all by yourself what benefits and what doesn't benefit Americans. If you want to see something that benefits 30 to 45 million uninsured Americans, you can do that right now by turning on your tv.
  17. #377  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Well, then I suggest you read up on American History, the foundation of things like the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. However, if you choose to simply not believe in the existence of such things...well, I can't convince you otherwise.

    KAM
    frankly Kam from what i have experienced, you and a number of others here in this forum and others that i subscribe to, are intelligent people. however, your recent beauty queen f aux pas as well as a number of canadian programs that like to poke fun at our southern neighbors, I find that perhaps you should be throwing a hell of a lot more money at your education system. I have actually had Americans insist, that Alaska is south of Canada. lolol I kid you not. Yes this has to be anomaly, has to be right, tell me it was. This also includes some that actually think that we have Polar bears in downtown Toronto. Do not misunderstand me, I think much of what America has accomplished is fantastic. I, like many others, think in other areas you lag far behind the rest of the world.
  18. #378  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Yes, I'm quite aware why you asked the questions. I'm also perfectly willing to admit that I do not know everything there is to know about the Dept. of Education. But I do know that it provides money to schools and that it is supported by taxpayer money, which was the point I was making. Just don't think it deserves much more discussion. Sorry.
    That's the ultimate problem. We don't want to really discuss this sort of thing. We want to come up with either a quick one liner to shut 'our opponents' up, or overwhelm them with such a filibuster that they shut up. The Department of Education is supported by taxpayer money. The amount of money it provides to schools varies greatly (and technically, it doesn't provide it directly to the schools) depending on which programs they participate in (Title I, II, etc.). I'm not sure how well the model would work with health care, though, without some other drastic changes at the state levels.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  19.    #379  
    By the way, for those who wondered about the identity of the Parkinson's Disease patient:

    And then there's the Parkinson's victim. Turns out 60-year-old Robert Lechter was first diagnosed with Parkinson's 15 years ago. He has two Master's Degrees and a PhD from Cornell. He taught at the University of Michigan and worked as a nuclear engineer.
    Lechter was able to have a $150,000 surgery thanks to Medicare and the Cleveland Clinic. It has greatly increased his quality of life. He attended the event in Columbus because he believes in giving back and thinks everyone should have access to affordable health insurance and quality health care.
  20.    #380  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    That's the ultimate problem. We don't want to really discuss this sort of thing. We want to come up with either a quick one liner to shut 'our opponents' up, or overwhelm them with such a filibuster that they shut up. The Department of Education is supported by taxpayer money. The amount of money it provides to schools varies greatly (and technically, it doesn't provide it directly to the schools) depending on which programs they participate in (Title I, II, etc.). I'm not sure how well the model would work with health care, though, without some other drastic changes at the state levels.
    I'm pretty sure you're missing the point of the conversation. It was a discussion about what "rights" we are provided for in the constitution,and that is something wasn't clearly identified as a right, then we shouldn't expect to be provided it. All I stated was that nowhere in the constitution are we guaranteed a right to education, but that we as a society deemed it important for our individual children that they be provided with an education so they could be successful. The argument was made that that "right" is provided by the states, and I was just making the point that that is not the case exclusively. I was not suggesting that health care be provided using the same mechanism at all. In fact, I think health care should be the sole responsibility of the feds to ensure consistent health care that will not bankrupt the states based on their variability in terms of tax income. Medicare works better than Medicaid, which is the closest delivery system analogous to the education system. But that's my opinion.

    Health care does not have to be mentioned in the constitution as a right in order for our country to provide it. The elderly and disabled have been provided it since 1964.

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