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  1. #81  
    Define terrorist.
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    It's been noted all around that his comments land all over the board. He also supported the failed (so far) healthcare bill.
    There's no evidence that he supported the health care bill...he only complained about the health care system. You'll note that many on the right have said (without much enthusiasm, I'll grant you) that our health care system is flawed.

    And my post asked where the evidence was that he supported Obama, which was the totally unsupported claim. It was simply a lie repeated by the extreme right in an attempt to paint this killer as a liberal.

    I'm not painting him as a teabagger, but his political manifesto was extremely anti-government, anti-IRS, and repeated many of the talking points of the tea party movement. And if you search "joe stack hero" on Twitter, you'll see that many anti-government folks, who align with the tea parties, are treating him as a folk hero.

    Do you need any more evidence than this? Tea Party Patriots | God bless Joe Stack an american hero



    The bigger question is what our media and politicians are doing to fan the flames of this sort of hatred. When folks on TV post that the government is evil and portray the administration as akin to ****s, and repeatedly state that brave folks should start a revolution, crazies will take it as serious.
    Last edited by Bujin; 02/19/2010 at 02:16 PM.
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  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Along these lines, had Amy Bishop NOT been such a poster child of liberal elite and Obama supporter; but instead a teabagger... or had been seen sipping tea once at a party... she'd still be in the headlines and talked about all over the media. In fact, davidra or Bujin would probably have devoted a thread to her. Funny how she's pretty much ignored in the press and by the talking heads.
    She has been on the news virtually every day, and hasn't been ignored. Her political leanings haven't been a focus because, despite your spin to the contrary, her politics have absolutely no connection to her crime.

    That's very different than publishing a political manifesto (a la Stack), or killing an abortion doctor based upon politics and religion (such as Roeder). In cases where politics is the reason for a criminal / terrorist act, politics is relevant. In the Bishop case, it's simply a transparent attempt to make a connection where none exists.
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  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    There are places where you can rent a small plane for a few hours or days if you are a licensed pilot and meet the criteria.
    Get a grip.
    And is that the case here? Please tell me. A lease is far different than renting a plane for a few hours. A lease also requires paying for a slot at the local airport no?

    Non of which is cheap.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by beerbatteredben View Post
    Define terrorist.
    ter·ror·ism
       [ter-uh-riz-uhm]
    –noun
    1.
    the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
    2.
    the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
    3.
    a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.
  6. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    "Voicing your dislike of government" isn't exactly the same as crashing your airplane into the IRS, now, is it? Or maybe you consider that reasonable? If so, please continue to voice away.
    Since, you tend to conveniently forget or deny things, and have demonstrated a repeated inability to comprehend things, let me spell it out very plainly and remind you:
    Davidra Said He was anti-business, anti-government, and anti-tax. Essentially he was anti-everything. Sure sounds like a teabagger to me

    That is--you are likening this guy who crashes an airplane into a building to tea party people...who are voicing dislike of their government's actions.

    So yes, genius, these ARE very different things, which is why it is idiotic for someone like you to liken the two, but apparently you didn't understand that point either.

    The overall point, for others (you aren't able to be reasoned with), is that taking an event like this by an extremist nut-case, and projecting that onto a whole group of innocent people, doing nothing more than exercising their rights as Americans is extremely dishonest, and I suggest intellectually cowardly. The same goes for trying to say that this kook woman who shot up everyone represents all liberals.

    Now, if you are yourself a whack-job and have justified your hatred of others so thoroughly that this sort of stupidity seems reasonable...then its probably important for people to see you for what you are.

    KAM
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    That is--you are likening this guy who crashes an airplane into a building to tea party people...who are voicing dislike of their government's actions.

    So yes, genius, these ARE very different things, which is why it is idiotic for someone like you to liken the two, but apparently you didn't understand that point either.
    Well, the Tea Party Patriots have blogged that he's an American Hero on their official site, so they are making that association themselves. They don't seem to share your view that he's an "extreme nut-case".
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  8. #88  
    Can we agree, then, that every citizen of The United States of America is a terrorist? Can we also agree that the terrorist label is lame?

    Who is the enemy now?

    War is peace?
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by beerbatteredben View Post
    Can we agree, then, that every citizen of The United States of America is a terrorist? Can we also agree that the terrorist label is lame?
    No, but I'll agree that anyone who kills innocents to make political points is a terrorist.
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  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by beerbatteredben View Post
    Can we agree, then, that every citizen of The United States of America is a terrorist? Can we also agree that the terrorist label is lame?

    Who is the enemy now?

    War is peace?
    No.
  11. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Well, the Tea Party Patriots have blogged that he's an American Hero on their official site, so they are making that association themselves. They don't seem to share your view that he's an "extreme nut-case".
    You do realize that Tea Party people are not a uniform group and in many cases not really a group at all right?

    Some people really like ****** or Stalin or Marx or Che too. So what? That is an indication of specific people's views, not everyone you can fit under whatever label chosen to suit someone's needs.

    While I've never attended a Tea party or engaged in any other associated activity, I'll just say that I think the guy was a crackpot loon. In short--I don't care if they share my view or not.

    I'm sure that there are those out there just rubbing their hands together with glee that this jerk has provided them a great weapon to use against Tea Partiers...which (as seen here) will be used to attack all of them I suspect.

    I don't know anything about that group, but that is an extremely stupid move. Did that particular organization endorse this guy as a "hero" or is this someone posting there they are by default "endorsing" by allowing that to be on their site? I'm not familiar with that site or how it works--is that the start of a thread or what? I couldn't see any comments or anything.

    KAM
    Last edited by KAM1138; 02/19/2010 at 03:12 PM.
  12. #92  
    Redefine terrorist, then.

    Is it Eurasia or Eastasia we are at war with now? I always get it mixed up.
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by beerbatteredben View Post
    Is it Eurasia or Eastasia we are at war with now? I always get it mixed up.
    I can't tell if you're being flippant or pseudo-intellectualizing the subject?
  14. Micael's Avatar
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    #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Well, the Tea Party Patriots have blogged that he's an American Hero on their official site, so they are making that association themselves. They don't seem to share your view that he's an "extreme nut-case".
    I can't get through to see this post as it's blocked here at work, but the first question I have is who are the "Tea Party Patriots". Being a grass roots movement, there's lots of little groups - and no cohesive encompassing body. I suspect that not all of these groups are aligned, and certain that none of them can yet qualify as 'the' voice for the movement.

    One thing for certain, he was no patriot or hero. He was a crazed coward.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  15. #95  
    I think this poll, by FoxNews, of all things, says a lot:

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    #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Well, the Tea Party Patriots have blogged that he's an American Hero on their official site, so they are making that association themselves. They don't seem to share your view that he's an "extreme nut-case".
    You're funny. You found a post by someone who has apparently just joined that website (note that if you click on his username you will see that he has one post in his blog). Who's to say that this isn't someone joining the site expressly to cast a bad light on everyone else?

    I guess everyone on Facebook agrees with everything everyone posts in their personal blog.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I can't get through to see this post as it's blocked here at work, but the first question I have is who are the "Tea Party Patriots". Being a grass roots movement, there's lots of little groups - and no cohesive encompassing body. I suspect that not all of these groups are aligned, and certain that none of them can yet qualify as 'the' voice for the movement.
    The Tea Party Patriots is perhaps the largest Tea Party organization, supported by FreedomWorks (**** Armey's organization) and containing over 1000 local chapters. They're the big dog in the movement.

    One thing for certain, he was no patriot or hero. He was a crazed coward.
    Agreed. I wish everyone agreed on that.
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  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by angiest View Post
    You're funny. You found a post by someone who has apparently just joined that website (note that if you click on his username you will see that he has one post in his blog). Who's to say that this isn't someone joining the site expressly to cast a bad light on everyone else?
    Could be. However, you'll not that it hasn't been taken down, although the Tea Party Patriots (a) know that this is a hot button issue, and (b) reserve the right to take down posts that they have an issue with.
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  19. Micael's Avatar
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    #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    In the Bishop case, it's simply a transparent attempt to make a connection where none exists.
    There was no such attempt. Just the opposite..... that politics were not the cause in either case.

    Its really pretty lame to politicize this event for the purpose of painting a group that you disagree with, wouldn't you agree? Isn't what you're saying along the lines of, "He was a teabagger, he was a maniac, ergo, teabaggers are maniacs"?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    I can't tell if you're being flippant or pseudo-intellectualizing the subject?

    I was making a reference to 1984.
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