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  1. #1761  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I discovered that the audiences as football games and concerts are full of hypocrites and judgmental people, so I've stopped attending both of them.

    I must agree that much of what is done as religion is not something God approves of. That's why they only people Jesus ever got angry with were the religious leaders.

    If you ever want an amazing read... pick up a book called "un-christian"... it rocked my world. It's based on very methodical research into the world view differences/similarities of Christians and non-Christians. Fascinating conclusions.
    Is this directed at me? Because if so, it rudely makes light of my issues and what I went through, in particular the very first paragraph.

    And no, I'll not pick up any such book and read it. I thought I made it clear that I no longer have questions about any of it? My opinions and stance are firmly cemented and nothing and no one will change them.



    Beamed down to the earthlings from my eVo
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  2. #1762  
    Perhaps I should state it this way:

    I am NOT a wondering seeker, that's not why I posted in this thread.

    I've NO interest in learning anything more about something that I know is nothing more that pure mythology!

    Beamed down to the earthlings from my eVo
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  3. #1763  
    Quote Originally Posted by verwon View Post
    Is this directed at me? Because if so, it rudely makes light of my issues and what I went through, in particular the very first paragraph.

    And no, I'll not pick up any such book and read it. I thought I made it clear that I no longer have questions about any of it? My opinions and stance are firmly cemented and nothing and no one will change them.



    Beamed down to the earthlings from my eVo
    Not in the slightest. But, it's a good example of why I generally don't post in these thread. The book I suggested is relevant to the discussion, based on rock solid statistics, and explains a lot about why we all have experiences where "religion" gets in the way of God (as one understands him ). It has nothing to do with theology. It is an analysis of differences (or lack thereof) between world views. And that's the point, there are no longer any significant differences. Someone well read and thoughtful might find it interesting. Or not.

    I apologize.
  4. #1764  
    Thank you!

    And the issue of the book is that I don't have a god for religion to get in the way of. For me, reading it would be a pointless waste of time.


    Beamed down to the earthlings from my eVo
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  5. #1765  
    And to be fair, I have read many books and articles like that, in the past. So, I do understand your point and reasoning.

    Such things are part of what I explored, which also included other religions, before making my final life decision.


    Beamed down to the earthlings from my eVo
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  6. #1766  
    Quote Originally Posted by verwon View Post
    Thank you!

    And the issue of the book is that I don't have a god for religion to get in the way of. For me, reading it would be a pointless waste of time.


    Beamed down to the earthlings from my eVo
    I guess that would depend on your interest in cultural trends, social norms, politics, economics, and such. I found it very interesting.
  7. #1767  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I guess that would depend on your interest in cultural trends, social norms, politics, economics, and such. I found it very interesting.
    I'm sorry, but at the moment, I'm just not up for this discussion anymore, right now.

    My dad just called, he does have skin cancer and the initial attempts at removal didn't work. He has to see a specialist surgeon, this week.

    Beamed down to the earthlings from my eVo
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
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    #1768  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Which one? Humans worship various gods.
    Even worse, they kill each other every day to prove that their imaginary friend is better than someone else's imaginary friend.

    I don't fear god, but I do fear (with good reason!) god's mis-guided followers.....
    Sent from my Etch-a-Sketch.

    #staycoolmybabies
  9.    #1769  
    Quote Originally Posted by verwon View Post
    Is this directed at me?...
    @verwon,
    I just got back to my computer and I'm catching up on your post and others.

    The approach I take in this thread is that none of us are to make judgments about others. Typically I error on the side of caution I personally feel like someone might be breaking those rules towards me. (9 time out of 10 as the conversation proceeds I learn that my initial hunches were wrong.) PMs might be another way to ask such a question.

    Going beck to read your (and the other post(s)) now. .. Bob
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  10.    #1770  
    Quote Originally Posted by verwon View Post
    I'm sorry, but at the moment, I'm just not up for this discussion anymore, right now.

    My dad just called, he does have skin cancer and the initial attempts at removal didn't work. He has to see a specialist surgeon, this week.

    Beamed down to the earthlings from my eVo
    I'm sorry to hear that it is cancer and that it hasn't been removed. That call must have been extremely hard for both you and your dad. Let me know if I should call my sister and ask for good places where he should be treated. -- Bob
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  11. #1771  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    I'm sorry to hear that it is cancer and that it hasn't been removed. That call must have been extremely hard for both you and your dad. Let me know if I should call my sister and ask for good places where he should be treated. -- Bob
    Thanks, Bob. I'm still very upset, at the moment. I appreciate the offer and will get back to you on that.

    Beamed down to the earthlings from my eVo
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  12.    #1772  
    @verwon,
    I just read the your story in post #1761. I've found that many church leaders are afraid to accept challenges also. Many Christians churches each have their own interpretation and they have Bible verses that they finagle a little or sometimes read out of context. Please remember that the church is made up of man and women who fall short of the glory of God. While the human church can let you down, God never will. In fact you may have been experiencing graces from God in your study and the leaders saw that your questions would bring you out of their flock. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I'm sorry to hear what has happened to you. I got pulled away from the church by human trickery (all in the name of religion) in the mid-80's also. In my case the trickery was by well meaning Christians in another denomination. I was lucky to eventually find my way back, but I know how seeking advice and realizing that the supposed leaders aren't prepared to help can feel. You (and your father) will be in my prayers tonight. Stay strong right how as you dad probably will need you. -- Bob
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  13. #1773  
    Thanks, I'm glad you understand. Nothing, however, will pull me back to belief.

    I'm also trying to stay strong, but it's not easy. And even though I don't believe, I'll never argue with anyone that's offering up prayers and support for him.


    Beamed down to the earthlings from my eVo
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  14.    #1774  
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromNam View Post
    If people are aware after death, and afterlife exists, then each of us would find out for themselves if they were right or wrong during their life (in their assumption of there being an afterlife or not).

    Alternatively, God being omnipotent, could decide believers are granted an after-life, whereas atheists are left to dissolve into nothingness.
    God, if He exists, already stated what our purpose is for (to know Him and to love him, in this world and the next). The God of the Catholic Church does not exclude anyone from possible entrance into Heaven (unlike the Calvinist understanding of God). Many denominations have different understandings of eschatology (the study of last things: death, judgment, Heaven, and Hell). Many religions outside of Judiasm and Christianity also have their own beliefs. Our job on Earth is (as you correctly pointed out in prior posts) to discern truth. While there can be only one absolute truth, our human understanding of that truth can fail due to no part of our own. While you might not enter Heaven by god's preferred path, I can assure you that had you known the correct path and you would have accepted it given that knowledge, God makes a decision based on his deepest understanding of your heart. Should you think you can trick God and "get in on a technicality", I fear that you will be sadly mistaken. And yes, while many church leaders are squeamish to talk about Hell, it does exist and those entering will be there for eternity with no way out. [Now I can see why people are squeamish talking about Hell. ] -- Bob
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  15.    #1775  
    Note: I tried to PM you (but then I realized you had to turn those off).

    Quote Originally Posted by verwon View Post
    Thanks, I'm glad you understand. Nothing, however, will pull me back to belief.
    I know how you feel. I won't attempt to bring you back. I believe you have been damaged by others promising the same and then leaving you hanging out in danger with no protection. I believe when the time is right, the Lord will show you a sign. You may never see a sign. I would ask however that you trust that even though you do not see God, that He still sees you and knows what is in your heart.

    Quote Originally Posted by verwon View Post
    I'm also trying to stay strong, but it's not easy. And even though I don't believe, I'll never argue with anyone that's offering up prayers and support for him.
    Yep, you don't have to believe for the prayers of others to work. My prayers for myself seem to be less good than when others are praying for me (and yes, I need prayers too). My evening prayers just got a lot longer. I'm hoping that God has a reason to spare your father from the pain of cancer.

    -- Bob
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  16. #1776  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Note: I tried to PM you (but then I realized you had to turn those off).


    I know how you feel. I won't attempt to bring you back. I believe you have been damaged by others promising the same and then leaving you hanging out in danger with no protection. I believe when the time is right, the Lord will show you a sign. You may never see a sign. I would ask however that you trust that even though you do not see God, that He still sees you and knows what is in your heart.



    Yep, you don't have to believe for the prayers of others to work. My prayers for myself seem to be less good than when others are praying for me (and yes, I need prayers too). My evening prayers just got a lot longer. I'm hoping that God has a reason to spare your father from the pain of cancer.

    -- Bob
    I was having a problem with some weirdos who only wanted to send me repeated PMs to tell me how hot and sexy I am. It got annoying really fast. I have them set to contacts/friends only, so I'll add you to them, since I know your PMs are safe and for intelligent discussion.

    And thank you, that means a lot to me. He's all I had for many years. It took a special man, back then to raise a little girl on his own.



    Beamed down to the earthlings from my eVo
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  17.    #1777  
    Quote Originally Posted by verwon View Post
    I'll add you to them, since I know your PMs are safe and for intelligent discussion.
    See! I learn new things about what is possible in the world of internet discussion software every day just by hanging around you!

    Quote Originally Posted by verwon View Post
    And thank you, that means a lot to me. He's all I had for many years. It took a special man, back then to raise a little girl on his own.
    While I never worked for your father, but I worked doing similar work (closer to Pittsburgh) from childhood through college. If your dad is like most other construction people I know, he's always felt invincible and self-empowered. This might shake him a bit. Please let him know that while he will be weakened, others have fought this and won and that you always be (at most) a phone call away.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  18. #1778  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    See! I learn new things about what is possible in the world of internet discussion software every day just by hanging around you!


    While I never worked for your father, but I worked doing similar work (closer to Pittsburgh) from childhood through college. If your dad is like most other construction people I know, he's always felt invincible and self-empowered. This might shake him a bit. Please let him know that while he will be weakened, others have fought this and won and that you always be (at most) a phone call away.
    Oh yes, that describes him to a T!!! At 82, he still hauls junk and tows cars with a friend that has a junkyard, so he hasn't slowed down much.

    And I most certainly will let him know that. Thanks!

    Beamed down to the earthlings from my eVo
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  19. #1779  
    Quote Originally Posted by verwon View Post
    I'm sorry, but at the moment, I'm just not up for this discussion anymore, right now.

    My dad just called, he does have skin cancer and the initial attempts at removal didn't work. He has to see a specialist surgeon, this week.

    Beamed down to the earthlings from my eVo
    I'm very sorry to hear that. We lost my Father-in-law and my Mom to internal cancers in the last 18 months. Hopefully you will hear a good prognosis. My Father-in-law had all kinds if skin cancer stuff over the years, and it was always very treatable even if a bit inconvenient.

    Our prayers are with you.
  20. #1780  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I'm very sorry to hear that. We lost my Father-in-law and my Mom to internal cancers in the last 18 months. Hopefully you will hear a good prognosis. My Father-in-law had all kinds if skin cancer stuff over the years, and it was always very treatable even if a bit inconvenient.

    Our prayers are with you.
    Thank you and sorry to hear of your losses.

    From the little information he had, it seems to be basal cell carcinoma, which is rarely fatal, buy usually recurs. His problem is that he let it go for so long.

    Beamed down to the earthlings from my eVo
    Sent from my favorite gadget!

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