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  1.    #1381  
    Hello everyone

    I'm sorry about some of the recent misunderstandings we've experienced in some of our recent conversations. My "gut feeling" was to jump in a few posts sooner than I did and I'll learn to trust my intuition a bit more if I see this happening again.

    Hopefully everyone has had a bit of time to think about how others might see our questions. One thing to remember is what seems like an innocent question that you are asking might be misunderstood as being irreverent by someone else. I think we all have to give and take a bit when this happens (and learn from such experiences). My immediate friends from another Christian church don't engage is discussions over the Internet for exactly this reason. I feel as long as these discussions can remain "managed", we are pretty safe in continuing. Had I known more about Islam, I would have stepped in a bit sooner and explained what I'm going to explain now.

    Muslims have a view of "completely surrendering" to God. God is not a "democracy" or someone who should be "up for discussion". Anyone participating in these discussions has to understand that others who don't share your beliefs may not understand what you think is "obviously crossing the line. I also feel that no-one here intentionally crossed such a line. If anyone ever feels such a line is being crossed, you need to state "what and why" about the problem (without attacking or insulting anyone else, and without "calling" (or "exchanging") names to/with others. Once again, short questions and short responses will help. For the time being, don't worry about having to provide "many examples" of "what you mean". More than one or two examples seems to be causing the posts to branch out too much. We can make a "parking lot" (of future questions to discuss) if we find we have many issues, but we want to stay focused on only a few at a time.

    I'm sure we each have one or two things we might want to discuss, so I'll open the floor to suggestions. If everyone can post 1-3 topics that they think might be good topics to proceed with, we can see if there is any consensus. I'll hold off (at least a few hours) with my suggested topics (and maybe longer if people are away from their computers enjoying the weekend)!

    peace, love, and penguins!
    --
    Bob
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  2. #1382  
    War! We can talk about that....

    Christians and Muslims should go to war again.

    All in the name of God. lol

    Everyone believes what they want to believe... not sure a discussion on religion on line even makes a difference. Actually, even off line, you have the same old dry answers... it all boils down to faith... and maybe a book. What else is there to discuss? Really?

    With like minds you can discuss different views... but with unlike ( unwilling?) minds you won't get far.

    Heck, let's talk about the conversion process!
    01000010 01100001 01101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01000011 01110010 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100001
  3.    #1383  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    War! We can talk about that....

    Christians and Muslims should go to war again.
    All in the name of God. lol
    I think this is a valid area of discussion. (Holy Wars - I think it's something that probably bothers many who are reading this thread.)
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  4.    #1384  
    @Shadow-360 (and anyone else who questions the "divinity of Jesus" in the Bible. I've only looked at one Gospel here - from the beginning until the point where our Church's first Pope (Peter) made his statement of faith indicating what the Apostles believed about Jesus' divinity.

    In some places, I added hyperlinks to other scripture passages (mostly OT prophecies and writings quoted by Jesus).

    Anyone who does not question Jesus' divinity can probably skip past all the quotes except the last one and my ending comment (without loosing the intent of my post).

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew 1:18-23
    18: Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When is mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child of the holy spirit;
    19: And her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to divorce her quietly.
    20: But as he considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary your wife, for That which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit;
    21: She will bear a Son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins."
    22: All this took place to fulfill what the lord had spoken by the prophet:
    23: "behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel" (which means, god with us).
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew 3:16-17
    16: And when Jesus was baptized, he went up immediately from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened and he saw the spirit of God descending like a dove, and alighting on Him;
    17: And lo, a voice from heaven, saying, "this is My beloved Son, with whom i am well pleased."
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew 4:5-11
    5: Then the devil took him to the holy city, and set him on the pinnacle of the temple,
    6: and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down; for it is written, `He will give his angels charge of you,' and `On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.'"
    7: Jesus said to him, "Again it is written, `You shall not tempt the Lord your God.'"
    8: Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them;
    9: and he said to him, "All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me."
    10: Then Jesus said to him, "Begone, Satan! for it is written, `You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.'"
    11: Then the devil left him, and behold, angels came and ministered to him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew 7:11
    "Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew 8:5-8,10
    5: As he entered Caper'na-um, a centurion came forward to him, beseeching him
    6: and saying, "Lord, my servant is lying paralyzed at home, in terrible distress."
    7: And he said to him, "I will come and heal him."
    8: But the centurion answered him, "Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof; but only say the word, and my servant will be healed.

    10: When Jesus heard him, he marveled, and said to those who followed him, "Truly, I say to you, not even in Israel have I found such faith.
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew 8:2-11
    2: And behold, they brought to him a paralytic, lying on his bed; and when Jesus saw their faith he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, my son; your sins are forgiven."
    3: And behold, some of the scribes said to themselves, "This man is blaspheming."
    4: But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, "Why do you think evil in your hearts?
    5: For which is easier, to say, `Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, `Rise and walk'?
    6: But that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins" -- he then said to the paralytic -- "Rise, take up your bed and go home."
    7: And he rose and went home.
    8: When the crowds saw it, they were afraid, and they glorified God, who had given such authority to men.
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew 9:27-30
    27: And as Jesus passed on from there, two blind men followed him, crying aloud, "Have mercy on us, Son of David."
    28: When he entered the house, the blind men came to him; and Jesus said to them, "Do you believe that I am able to do this?" They said to him, "Yes, Lord."
    29: Then he touched their eyes, saying, "According to your faith be it done to you."
    30: And their eyes were opened. And Jesus sternly charged them, "See that no one knows it."
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew 11:27-30
    27: All things have been delivered to me by my Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
    28: Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
    29: Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
    30: For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew 14:25-33
    25: And in the fourth watch of the night he came to them, walking on the sea.
    26: But when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were terrified, saying, "It is a ghost!" And they cried out for fear.
    27: But immediately he spoke to them, saying, "Take heart, it is I; have no fear."
    28: And Peter answered him, "Lord, if it is you, bid me come to you on the water."
    29: He said, "Come." So Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water and came to Jesus;
    30: but when he saw the wind, he was afraid, and beginning to sink he cried out, "Lord, save me."
    31: Jesus immediately reached out his hand and caught him, saying to him, "O man of little faith, why did you doubt?"
    32: And when they got into the boat, the wind ceased.
    33: And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew 15:22-28
    22: And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and cried, "Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely possessed by a demon."
    23: But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, "Send her away, for she is crying after us."
    24: He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
    25: But she came and knelt before him, saying, "Lord, help me."
    26: And he answered, "It is not fair to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs."
    27: She said, "Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table."
    28: Then Jesus answered her, "O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed instantly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew 16:13-19
    13: Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesare'a Philip'pi, he asked his disciples, "Who do men say that the Son of man is?"
    14: And they said, "Some say John the Baptist, others say Eli'jah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
    15: He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
    16: Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
    17: And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
    18: And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
    19: I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
    The last two verses are where the Catholic Church says that the authority of the Church was given to Peter. Apostolic succession is another issue (which I won't deal with until a good opportunity to discuss that arises).
    Last edited by sudoer; 03/14/2010 at 09:29 PM.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  5. #1385  
    sudoer

    I'd like to answer the previous post by Shadow-360 addressed to me. I personally don't like writing very long posts, I've tryed not to prolong myself before and was taken as not having argument, which is wrong. I won't cite the passages of the quran again. I won't even read all the ones that were already commented, I'll just comment based on what I can remember.

    Shadow-360

    You insist that I called einsten I liar, I never did such thing, not even close, again, all I did was question your numbers, not the physics theory, for example: the exact proportion of the delay in time, etc. I believe all numbers about the origin of the universe are estimate numbers, not pin point especific numbers. I ask you too to read again you old post, you'll see that you said that time was slower and than that the speed of time was higher. Maybe it was a distraction, a typo, but don't curse me before really checking what you've written.

    About the passages, I still don't see the necessary logical conclusions. I remember a passage that said that day and night merges into each other because of the movement of the sun and the moon. There's no necessary logical conclusion that the earth is not flat based on this. It's only said day and night merges because there's obviously nothing in between them and the idea that they occur because of the movement of the sun and the moon makes sense if you imagine a person looking at the sky centuries ago without knowing modern physics.
    The other passage you were so 'fierce' (maybe rude) to defend talks about the place 'where the sun sets' and the place where the sun 'rises'. The passage tells about a person going to these locations, that's all. It doesn't say it was the person 'thinking' or what the person 'was seeing' or if it was a dialogue. It's just a person going to the place where the sun rises and where it sets and we know these places don't exist. Maybe if the earth was flat...
    The passage about the sky being created after the earth... it's clearly not scientific... Maybe it is a metaphor (like the other passages) but to take it literally and try by all means to fit it in science is exactly what I was saying about 'being biased', about 'forcing things' or interpret things biasedly towards making every word count or be accurate because simply there's no alternative, they have to be exactly right because it is the word of 'Alah' or something like that. Turns out, they don't need to be accurate.
    About the treatment to women.. I'm not gonna cite passages but you are well versed on the quran, you probably know there are specific passages that say that a women mustn't tease a man and things like that. In the modern western world, women dress how they wanna dress and do what they wanna do. These parts are NOT in harmony with our morality. I'm saying this to illustrate that these passages were written a long time ago and in a different part of the world, to take them 'literally' and to assume they 'must' apply to rest of the world because it's the word of 'Alah' or anything like that is really not understanting the differences between cultures and even 'gods'.
    There are other passages like the one about the 7 layers of the sky and etc that you try to use to prove that the quran is accurate... I remember my religion classes in my old catholic school when I was a kid and how the number 7 (and many others like 12, 6, 1 etc) show up a lot in religious books because they have a special meaning like a 'perfect amount' or the 'perfect number' and things like that. To imagine that they knew specifically the layers of the sky like we have divided them today is a huge leap of faith and again... just biased into making all 'accurate' and precisely right because the quran cannot be questioned.
    About the 'vile' and 'aggressive' passages. I'm not sure if they are wrong or not, the truth is if you look up for passages on google (not just in websites against quran fyi) you will find examples of more 'hostile' attitutes' towards non belivers of unfaithful ones. But that's not to take offend, it's not specific of the quran, the bible also have passages that are more 'aggressive' and I guess all holy books must have them too. I just cited them to illustrate again the differences in our morality. Most people just choose 'parts' of the holy books to justify their faith but these just show how weak these parts are because if you are serious about following that religion you should follow the whole thing, don't you agree?

    I have no bad feelings about the quran. I've just engaged in this discussion to prove a point. I've tryed not be very long or cite things again or cite useless things, I hope it is ok.
  6.    #1386  
    Quote Originally Posted by sloopjohnb View Post
    sudoer

    I'd like to answer the previous post by Shadow-360 addressed to me. I personally don't like writing very long posts, I've tryed not to prolong myself before and was taken as not having argument, which is wrong.
    Thanks, I trust your judgment.

    Quote Originally Posted by sloopjohnb View Post
    Shadow-360
    ... There are other passages like the one about the 7 layers of the sky and etc that you try to use to prove that the quran is accurate... I remember my religion classes in my old catholic school when I was a kid and how the number 7 (and many others like 12, 6, 1 etc) show up a lot in religious books because they have a special meaning like a 'perfect amount' or the 'perfect number' and things like that. To imagine that they knew specifically the layers of the sky like we have divided them today is a huge leap of faith and again... just biased into making all 'accurate' and precisely right because the quran cannot be questioned.
    At least based on Shadow-360's posts so far, my guess is he might say Muslims don't put credence in "symbology" behind numbers. The "special" numbers in the Bible (as I understand them are):
    • 3 (I don't recall the specifics of this one, except the "Trinity".)
    • 4 (Same here, probably more obscure.)
    • 7 (Number of days of creation. Number of churches written to in Revelation.)
    • 12 (12 tribes of Israel, 12 apostles, etc.)
    • 1000 (used simply to indicate a "large number" (a "bunch", a "multiplier")

    6 is usually a bad number (being one short of 7) and generally means something evil.

    Anyone who wants to flesh in more details about these numbers is welcome to do so. If someone knows whether numbers have special meanings in other religions, please feel free to share.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  7.    #1387  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    ... Heck, let's talk about the conversion process!
    Hello theog (and anyone else really "curious" about how Catholics' beliefs specifically differ from other Christians),

    Here is a (rather long) MP3 talk that describes what Catholics should know (but often don't) about why we hold to our specific Christian beliefs. This MP3 is really 5 one-hour talks appended together into a single MP3 file. If you download this into an MP3 player that you can easily navigate back and forth in (called "scrubbing") you can navigate to each of these 5 talks:
    1. Papal primacy (Matthew 16:13-19, Isaiah 22:22)
    2. Purgatory
    3. Mary
    4. Communion of Saints
    5. Eucharist

    It actually helps to listen to these in order (but that's not required). The first lecture picks up where my prior post (with the scriptue quotes from Matthew) leaves off.

    theog (who'se P|C location is "Purgatory") will probably find the first two talks most interesting. Shadow-360 can probably skip the 2nd and 3rd talks (for now). Christians will find all 5 talks informative, but the most important one is actually the 5th talk. J e w s might want to start with the 5th talk also.
    Last edited by sudoer; 03/15/2010 at 01:45 PM.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  8. Micael's Avatar
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    #1388  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    War! We can talk about that....

    Christians and Muslims should go to war again.

    All in the name of God. lol

    Everyone believes what they want to believe... not sure a discussion on religion on line even makes a difference. Actually, even off line, you have the same old dry answers... it all boils down to faith... and maybe a book. What else is there to discuss? Really?

    With like minds you can discuss different views... but with unlike ( unwilling?) minds you won't get far.

    Heck, let's talk about the conversion process!
    It has always been my belief that all war boils down to greed, power, and control. Religion is what's thrown in the mix as a recruiting tool, but it's not the real reason for the war.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  9. #1389  
    so I just got back from my absence of this thread and see a lot of talk on the Islamic faith.
    @sloopjohnb what are you trying to do get us bombed! haha JK
    @shadow 360 that was just a stupid joke, I know that many misinterpret the Muslims w/ extremists... Just wanted to lighten the mood.
    @ Micael I agree 100%, but a lot of religious folk write it off as non religious wars though.... My feeling is that any war or clensing or extermination using any form of religion is a religious war, including but certainly not limited to WWII. Not neccasarily a religious war but certainly used religion as a backbone and a form of brainwashing. No where in any religious doctrines (that i know of) say to kill all other religions, they may say that others are wrong but nothing of clensing. But another reason why I am against religions is bc people are too quick to use it and twist it words to make their points or to vrainwash or justify theyr absurd (to say the least) actions.

    @sudoer youre patience is envious. You are doing a great job w/ this thread and you are a big reason why it has been able to remain civil, Kudos!

    Something I wanted to respond to before I left someone was questioning virgin birth and how it couldve been an excuse to hide "sins" way back when.. I feel this is very possible but I recently read an article on vrgin birth in sharks... It is absolutely possible for virgin birth to be scientific!
    Scientists confirm shark's ‘virgin birth’ - Science- msnbc.com
    Could it prove anything about God... No, unless the DNA strains are illuminated with rays of light! (jk)
    But it could be that Mary did have a Baby and believed it to be the Son of God...?

    When did Jesus have his first talk with God?
    Is it possible that Jesus was raised to believe that he was, being that is what his mothered believed out of virgin birth?
    Jesus started teaching at the age of 12... when did he perform his first "miracle"? and was it a small miracle when he was young or was it a Big miracle for a little kid?
    Also, I know this was mentioned and I will research myself but I think there is an answer, why would Jesus send his son as an infant not as an adult?
  10. #1390  
    About the virgin birth. I remember reading a long time ago about 'similar' births in other myths and religions. The story about a 'divine' person who is born from a human and a god is not specific of jesus. The story of the 'resurrection' , overcoming death, is also not specific of jesus. These 'myths' already existed in older gods and in older religions, the bible just showed a different version of them. I'm kinda busy now but I'll look up the other examples later.
  11. #1391  
    Is it possible that different religions all have it right!?
    The bible says do not worship another God other than me.
    Is God saying that there is actually other Gods by saying this?
    And the God you worship, you follow their rules and destined path?
  12. #1392  
    Quote Originally Posted by sloopjohnb View Post
    About the virgin birth. I remember reading a long time ago about 'similar' births in other myths and religions. The story about a 'divine' person who is born from a human and a god is not specific of jesus. The story of the 'resurrection' , overcoming death, is also not specific of jesus. These 'myths' already existed in older gods and in older religions, the bible just showed a different version of them. I'm kinda busy now but I'll look up the other examples later.
    You are right there has been , I think 5 other "stories" sharing that, and a lot more then just resurection and virgin birth! From occupation to teachings at a young age born the same way and the same day... I am busuy too but there is a YT video posted earlier I think you would Really Enjoy! It talks about all of these in great detail!
  13.    #1393  
    Bringing and old (somewhat weird discussion) back to life:
    (EDIT: or at least adding "my answer" on this topic.)
    Quote Originally Posted by gsonspre View Post
    Lets keep it rolling!
    I do have one question:
    Dr. Hugh Ross stated that Edgar Cayce as a religious prophet. An interesting read on Cayce:
    According to the Cayce material, Jesus and Adam were different incarnations of the same Christ soul.
    Adam -Adam was the first "son of man" and "son of God"; the Christ soul after his incarnation into a physical body (corresponding to Genesis 2).
    So does that mean that Adam was Jesus? So Jesus sinned, then Jesus came back and sacrificed himself for all the sin he has caused? So we are all born into sin bc of Jesus? That also means that Jesus ignored the word of his Father? Which according to the Bible he shouldve been stoned? And also means that Satan outsmarted Jesus, Man we could all be in a lot of trouble!?
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    I almost want to cry when I read crap like that.
    Thanks for seeing it as the stupidity it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    I agree. It really amazes me how easily some people can "misunderstand" some things that even seem "plain" to an everyday guy like me:

    Bible readers/scholars (particularly Catholics, at least) will make comments ' like "Christ is the 'new Adam' " and "Mary is the 'new Eve' " but these are 'types' (a kind of foreshadowing/fulfillment relationship) rather than a belief that they are actually the "same person"). Here's a Bible verse that makes this very clear:

    Quote Originally Posted by Romans 5 14
    Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sins were not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
    *(The "one who was to come" means Jesus.)

    Essentially this is just saying that Jesus came to do for us what Adam and every man couldn't. Mary was essentially "Jesus' tabernacle" and because of this Catholics concluded she needed to be born free of the "original sin" of Adam and Eve. Mary was saved by Christ (through grace) just as any other Christian is, but this was pre-arranged by God before (or perhaps at the exact same time) as her soul was created. This is what Catholics call the "Immaculate Conception" (which happened at the time Mary was conceived (not Jesus). Mary and Joesph would have had free will to have relations after Jesus' birth, but the Church asserts that they did not. Since Mary was "assumed" into Heaven under God's power (while being "asleep" and not really "dead"), she now remains alive in Heaven in a glorified body and is called the "Queen of Heaven". Most non-Catholic Christians more or less assert that our "Church" is full of "hot air" here. It sounds like a "pretty concocted" story yet it remains one that has stood the 2000 year test of time (so far, anyway).

    As far as other religions having "similar stories", I believe God may have "programmed us" with a certain amount of "understanding" (or "ability to comprehend His intended theological/divine truths"). I find some of the similarities remarkable! The similarities make me (and many atheists and agnostics) reasonably suspicious! Logic tells me though that the "Christ story" has held up better than any other so far. I'm open to discussion but so far taking the "what if current faith is true?" position seems to better explain things (at least to me) than any alternative. Of course: YMMV.
    Last edited by sudoer; 03/17/2010 at 04:49 PM.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  14.    #1394  
    You had to know it would be impossible for me not to post a "we bit" about the Trinity and St. Patrick on his feast day:

    St. Patrick used the shamrock (native to Ireland) to explain the Trinity. He'd ask people whether it was one leaf, or three. They would answer "both one and three" - and he would say the same it is with God.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  15. #1395  
    This discussion reminds me of that old letter someone wrote to Dr Laura a number of years ago:

    Dear Dr. Laura,

    Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding Gods law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

    When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?

    I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

    I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

    Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify?

    I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

    A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I dont agree. Can you settle this?

    Lev. 20:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

    I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that Gods word is eternal and unchanging.
    Sprint|Samsung Epic
  16.    #1396  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    This discussion reminds me of that old letter someone wrote to Dr Laura a number of years ago:
    How did she answer these questions?
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  17. #1397  
    0_o
  18. Xerlot's Avatar
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    #1398  
    in response to the dr laura thing. I do not have the time nor the patience to list things for people that cherry pick the Bible and not look into the context of the verse. However I will give you this short explination.. You are comparing moral law and cerimolial law. Cerimonial law was done away with when Jesus died for our sins however moral law is unchanged. Also some of the verses listed were in accordance to the time. If you read a historical text, there may be things you don't agree with but I doesn't mean that the author agreed with it eiher ie slavery. So mind you that taking things out of context is dangerous.
  19.    #1399  
    You have to remember that's Riley's specialty in this thread! He's consistently shown the same strategy since post #2 with his famous flowchart!

    Riley is fishing to understand why God was willing to do away with J e w ish precepts, but he wonders why God didn't "get with the program" and declare homosexuality as a natural and ordered behavior that benefits society. If God did that, Riley would be trolling on about why God didn't want society to procreate. I wonder who will win in the end: Riley, or a possibly existent or non-existent God?

    This makes me think about the Charlie Daniels song "The Devil went down to Georgia". Riley, are you hot with the fiddle?
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  20. #1400  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    This makes me think about the Charlie Daniels song "The Devil went down to Georgia". Riley, are you hot with the fiddle?
    Sadly, no.
    Sprint|Samsung Epic

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