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  1. #1221  
    Isn't religion nothing more than who's imaginary friend is the best?
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    #1222  
    Quote Originally Posted by arachnoman1 View Post
    Isn't religion nothing more than who's imaginary friend is the best?
    imaginary? is the wind imaginary just because you cant see it. God is like the wind, you can't see Him, but you can feel and see the effects of His existence.
  3.    #1223  
    Quote Originally Posted by arachnoman1 View Post
    Isn't religion nothing more than who's imaginary friend is the best?
    I'd say there's a bit more to religion than this. The real issue that I see is in determining of any (views) of this (these) "imaginations" represents divine inspiration from a real God. I'm inclined to apply logic to this "problem" in order "find this God" should He exist. To me, this requires separating "emotions" (as much as possible) and investigating "evidence" (scriptures or other "claimed" teachings of God) to see whether any or all "fit" better or not than the absence of any religion. (Did I "read " your question correctly? If not, please restate it and I can try again.)
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  4. #1224  
    Quote Originally Posted by jwinn35 View Post
    check this link here explaining some of the prophetic natures of the bible, that cannot be historically disputed. Fulfilled Prophecy: Evidence for the Reliability of the Bible
    I read through this and the probabilities of most of the (IMO of course) prophecies are completely exaggerated... There is a lot of typing if I were to go through and dispute these individually but... I appreciate you showing us that.

    As far as the biblical prophecies, a lot of them can be linked through astrology, and prior "stories" that are practically identical to the story of Jesus. I know we disputed this in the past about pre Jesus divine beings on Earth but the point is that some of the "Prophcies" are very similar to stories told hundreds to thousands years prior, on multiple occasions in multiple regions.

    As far as #7 how do we know that the 9 suburbs werent built around that "prophecy" in the bible...

    Dont misinterpret my reponses, Im not trying to say that God does not exist, i just feel that a lot of "Evidence" or Science used to proove that God exists has never made a solid link, controversialy nor has science disproving either
    Last edited by gsonspre; 03/05/2010 at 12:53 PM.
  5.    #1225  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsonspre View Post
    I read through this and the probabilities of most of the (IMO of course) prophecies are completely exaggerated...
    @gsonspre,
    If I ever find a good book that explains this in terms of "Catholic" teachings, I'll let you know. (I haven't done any searches yet, but in my opinion, this would be key for an agnostic or an athiest to have before being able to accept any teachings from the Bible.)
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  6.    #1226  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    @gsonspre,
    If I ever find a good book that explains this in terms of "Catholic" teachings, I'll let you know. (I haven't done any searches yet, but in my opinion, this would be key for an agnostic or an athiest to have before being able to accept any teachings from the Bible.)
    This radio program is probably a good start. Fr. Mitch Pacwa really know his stuff (including knowing a good bit about other faiths too if I recall correctly). I'll listen to it now too.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  7. #1227  
    Quote Originally Posted by arachnoman1 View Post
    Isn't religion nothing more than who's imaginary friend is the best?
    To some maybe.
    Just call me Berd.
  8. #1228  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    @gsonspre,
    If I ever find a good book that explains this in terms of "Catholic" teachings, I'll let you know. (I haven't done any searches yet, but in my opinion, this would be key for an agnostic or an athiest to have before being able to accept any teachings from the Bible.)
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    This radio program is probably a good start. Fr. Mitch Pacwa really know his stuff (including knowing a good bit about other faiths too if I recall correctly). I'll listen to it now too.

    Thank You Sudoer, when I have a chance I will listen to that.
  9. #1229  
    Quote Originally Posted by jwinn35 View Post
    check this link here explaining some of the prophetic natures of the bible, that cannot be historically disputed. Fulfilled Prophecy: Evidence for the Reliability of the Bible[/url]
    First, you have to believe the old testament is true and historically accurate (which I don't).
    Also, it's easy to make a prophecy fulfill itself in the 'New Testament' if you have the written information from the 'Old Testament'. We know the old testament was available for the writing of the new testament.
    We call this self fulfilling prophecy. This makes the chance of the prophecy accuracy 1=1. Works every time.
  10. #1230  
    Quote Originally Posted by jwinn35 View Post
    imaginary? is the wind imaginary just because you cant see it. God is like the wind, you can't see Him, but you can feel and see the effects of His existence.
    Wind, is essentially moving air. Air, is a combination of gases pushed around by the atmosphere, therefore, easily explained by simple science, can you say the same about "god"?
    Last edited by arachnoman1; 03/05/2010 at 02:29 PM.
  11.    #1231  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsonspre View Post
    Thank You Sudoer, when I have a chance I will listen to that.
    After you listen to Pacwa, if you can tell me whether it's similar to (or different from) what was said in the "Fulfilled Prophecy: Evidence for the Reliability of the Bible" link, that might help me in understanding the extend of exaggerations. I'm happy to drill down in any Catholic based prophecy interpretations you either dispute or don't believe. I'm willing to look outside of Catholic teachings too (but I'm afraid the scope of the problem could really "mushroom" beyond my ability to comprehend).

    Does anyone else have reactions to what's written in the "Fulfilled Prophecy: Evidence for the Reliability of the Bible" link?
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  12. #1232  
    Has everybody had time to consider my explanation of why God has permitted us to go it alone, and the bad we've brought upon ourselves trying to go it alone?

    If so, I would like to answer now why God hasn't stepped in yet.
    Why he hasn't bailed us out of this mess.

    But first I'd like to throw a wrench into the reasoning that I feel has created much of the confusion toward this whole argument of why God permits suffering.

    So what about these;
    If Adam and Ever never sinned, where would they be today?
    Was it ever his original intention for people to go to heaven?

    If God is testing us to see if we will be good citizens of heaven, what test did the millions of angels have to undergo to prove their worthiness?

    Are there butterflies in heaven? Are there flowers?
    Do people get married and have babies?
    I like to ride dirt bikes. I like the mountains. Will I be able to ride my dirt bike in heaven?

    If all good people who die go to heaven, and all bad people who die go to hell, what's the need for the resurrection?

    Where is Moses? Did he ever accept Jesus as his personal savior?
    Just call me Berd.
  13.    #1233  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Has everybody had time to consider my explanation of why God has permitted us to go it alone, and the bad we've brought upon ourselves trying to go it alone?
    I'm ready for the next step, but let's get some more "buy in" that some others are ready to proceed (and give them a chance to ask questions about what you said so far). Once we have 3-5 "yes to proceed" votes, I think then it would be safe to move on.

    To recap (for others' understanding and my own), you gave reasons for not "starting over" with both Adam/Eve and Noah. The "Adam/Eve" reason makes sense enough to me, but I'd like to see some "commonality among the reasons" for each time God establishes new covenants with man. In other words: I'd like the reasons to also "connect and make sense as a whole". That would really lend credibility to all of this being "part of God's plan". Make sense?
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  14. #1234  
    I'm pumped! By all means let's move forward - let the healing begin.
  15. #1235  
    Wow...you guys have a long thread going here! I'm impressed. I haven't read too much yet, just the first 3 pages and the last, but it does seem you guys are very civil and respectful. That is great.

    I noticed references to Peter Kreeft and Reasons.org. I am familiar with both. I have a few interesting books by Kreeft...I can only find two of them now, but I think I had a third. The first one I have is "Between Heaven and Hell", an imaginary meeting of JFK, Aldous Huxley, and C.S. Lewis in some 'place between heaven and hell' where they discuss some interesting topics. In actual truth, they all died on the same day, November 22, 1962.

    The second book was called "The Unaborted Socrates" and I can't recall just what it was about...it might have had something to do with the issue of abortion, guess I'll have to pick it up again.

    Reasons.org is a good resource for information related to science and faith, the christian faith. I've met the founder, Dr. Hugh Ross, and found he and his organization to be very thoughtful, gracious, and knowledgeable

    Well, I'll be quiet now, until I have a chance to read through more of the ground you all have trod already. It could take me a while!
  16. #1236  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rockbeast View Post
    Wow...you guys have a long thread going here! I'm impressed. I haven't read too much yet, just the first 3 pages and the last, but it does seem you guys are very civil and respectful. That is great.

    I noticed references to Peter Kreeft and Reasons.org. I am familiar with both. I have a few interesting books by Kreeft...I can only find two of them now, but I think I had a third. The first one I have is "Between Heaven and Hell", an imaginary meeting of JFK, Aldous Huxley, and C.S. Lewis in some 'place between heaven and hell' where they discuss some interesting topics. In actual truth, they all died on the same day, November 22, 1962.

    The second book was called "The Unaborted Socrates" and I can't recall just what it was about...it might have had something to do with the issue of abortion, guess I'll have to pick it up again.

    Reasons.org is a good resource for information related to science and faith, the christian faith. I've met the founder, Dr. Hugh Ross, and found he and his organization to be very thoughtful, gracious, and knowledgeable

    Well, I'll be quiet now, until I have a chance to read through more of the ground you all have trod already. It could take me a while!
    @Rockbeast - what makes you think you can just come flying in here spouting off your beliefs - crazy!
    I'm just being humorous. Welcome to the discussion
    Just FYI - I am going to be one of the people here who will not likely believe most of what you have to say (esp. if you are quoting for your 'good book').
    For the most part this has been a fairly civil discussion about the fantasy that the religions of the world are living in and I am here to try and ground you with some facts and realities. Be prepared to have civil challenges thrown at your belief with a dash of cynicism and a heaping tablespoon of doubt.
  17.    #1237  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rockbeast View Post
    Wow...you guys have a long thread going here! I'm impressed. I haven't read too much yet, just the first 3 pages and the last, but it does seem you guys are very civil and respectful. That is great.

    I noticed references to Peter Kreeft and Reasons.org.
    Welcome! Yeah, the tread is getting a bit long. Most of it is pretty good. The strategy I often use to catch up on long threads is to alternate my reading from both ends. Another way to "look ahead" of where you are is to look at "all posts" from one or more people in the thread (just to get a general/summary idea of where the thread is "going").

    I'm looking forward to your insights (and bridging together some of our "references").
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  18.    #1238  
    For anyone wanting to become familiar with Biblical Prophecy, this Wikipedia Article seems like it also might be a good place to start your study.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  19. #1239  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    I'm ready for the next step, but let's get some more "buy in" that some others are ready to proceed (and give them a chance to ask questions about what you said so far). Once we have 3-5 "yes to proceed" votes, I think then it would be safe to move on.

    To recap (for others' understanding and my own), you gave reasons for not "starting over" with both Adam/Eve and Noah. The "Adam/Eve" reason makes sense enough to me, but I'd like to see some "commonality among the reasons" for each time God establishes new covenants with man. In other words: I'd like the reasons to also "connect and make sense as a whole". That would really lend credibility to all of this being "part of God's plan". Make sense?
    Please forgive my density.

    I know you said; 'in another words' but could you rephrase just a bit more?
    Just call me Berd.
  20. #1240  
    Quote Originally Posted by arachnoman1 View Post
    Wind, is essentially moving air. Air, is a combination of gases pushed around by the atmosphere, therefore, easily explained by simple science, can you say the same about "god"?
    As was said; the thread is pretty long. I say that's a good thing.

    We have pretty much addressed arguments such as these.
    The lack of certain so-called 'evidence' has to be applied for any explanation we accept.

    When it comes down to how it all started, and what was before that, it still has to be 'faith' because none of us were here then.
    Just call me Berd.

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