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  1. #1201  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Thanks for enduring my great wall of text.
    Can you provide a short version? This is too much.
  2. #1202  
    Quote Originally Posted by donovan34 View Post
    Can you provide a short version? This is too much.
    In the beginning God created man.
    Man didn't want God.
    God still Loves Man.
    Just call me Berd.
  3. #1203  
    Quote Originally Posted by donovan34 View Post
    Can you provide a short version? This is too much.
    AKA:

    tl;dr
  4. #1204  
    Quote Originally Posted by jverity View Post
    AKA:

    tl;dr
    *Insert stupid comment here*

    Edit: Didn't like the comment...so i deleted
    Last edited by donovan34; 03/04/2010 at 04:16 PM.
  5.    #1205  
    Quote Originally Posted by jverity View Post
    AKA: tl;dr
    Now you're educating me in "board speak"!
    May 16, 2005 Urban Word of the Day
    Literally, "Too long; didn't read"
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  6.    #1206  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Augustine faced this question 1600 years ago. In The City of God ...
    Someday I hope to learn to read some of his stuff. I guess I'm currently sort of in the "tl;dr" camp. I can see that he's already dealt with most (if not all) of the questions we have been raising here! Here is a brief summary of How Augustine dealt with the diverse conflicts between science and religion.

    I've been told that Augustine and Aquinas are the "best places to start" answering many of the sorts of questions that I (and many others here) seem to have. Can anyone here map out some good ways to begin this sort of reading?
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  7. #1207  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Now you're educating me in "board speak"!
    May 16, 2005 Urban Word of the Day
    Literally, "Too long; didn't read"
    Yeah,
    I planned on looking it up when I got back to my PC.
    Old fogey here.

    Although,
    I like that commercial where gramma is texting. Someone says something to her, and she replies back: m.y.o.b..
  8. #1208  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Can anyone here map out some good ways to begin this sort of reading?
    Have groovy post small excerpts.
  9. groovy's Avatar
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    #1209  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Have groovy post small excerpts.
    Today's lesson

    You wish to be great, begin from the least. You are thinking to construct some mighty fabric in height; first think of the foundation of humility. And how great soever a mass of building one may wish and design to place above it, the greater the building is to be, the deeper does he dig his foundation. The building in the course of its ********, rises up on high, but he who digs its foundation, must first go down very low. So then you see even a building is low before it is high, and the top is raised only after humiliation. What is the top in the ******** of that building which we are constructing? Whither will the highest point of this building reach? I say at once, even to the Vision of God.

    Augustine of Hippo New Testament Sermon 19
  10.    #1210  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    This is for dbd, and any who might find it interesting.
    ...
    After this berdinkerdickle quotes previous conversations (to "recap" them).
    ...
    After the recaps, berdinkerdickle gives refined answers to those recapped questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Thanks for enduring my great wall of text.
    It looked more intimidating than it actually was.
    Good post. Your explanation (so far) seems reasonable to me.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  11. #1211  
    Quote Originally Posted by bullsnort10 View Post
    The Christian religion has alway's had the most blessings.The Christians have alway's had sight for things that could not be seen.(all the great minds of the history of man)When an apple hit let's say a different man on the head.(a man of different religion or faith)he simply threw the apple,muttered some bad words and stompped off.
    When an apple hit one of the greatest christians of all time.He was given guidance and asked what made that apple hit me on the head.And the first theory of gravity was discovered.(It was one of the greatest blessings man has ever been given)
    And there have been many since then.(electricity,medicine,penicillin,radio waves,heat theory,discovery of the atom,combustion,fuel,)
    How can someone discover the world is round when all they have is the piece of land they are standing on.And simply just looking.
    How could anyone come to realize it's so much bigger and better than what their eyes were telling them.
    And that goes for every major discovery man has been blessed with.The list goes on and on.Without the sight God has given man.We would still be hunter gatherers,dieing at the age of thirty,and clubbing your neighbor for looking at your woman the wrong way.
    It's comments like this that make non-christians, agnostics, athiests, etc. giggle at the moronic, nonsensical mess that spews from a small segment of your ilk. If you want to make yourself sound ignorant, leave religion out of it, because in the perception of the masses, you are dragging others down with you.
  12. #1212  
    Quote Originally Posted by bullsnort10 View Post
    The Christian religion has always...
    been around for a little over 2000 years.
  13. #1213  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    This is for dbd, and any who might find it interesting.
    (Warning - Great Wall of Text)

    Some of you might remember this slogan: “We Will Sell No Wine Before Its Time”

    God has a timetable. He knows when and how to act to do the most good.

    Let's look back at what I posted earlier:














    Looking at these questions again:
    1. Why didn't God just bump these rebels off and start anew?

    Would that have answered the accusation that Satan made? - that God was lying, that they wouldn't die and in fact they would be 'enlighten' with the wisdom of what is considered good or bad. No, the question would of remained.
    (Side point; the name “Satan” means “Resister” and the name “Devil” means “Slanderer” Satan caused Adam and Eve to join him in his resistance to God's Authority. And he Slandered God by in effect, calling him a Liar.)

    We, with our inherited tendency to challenge authority, continue to debate as to if God's way of doing things is best or not. God isn't allowing time so much 'to make a point' but rather for us to see for ourselves, that we need God. God wants us to serve him because we see it as the best choice, not because he will bump us off if we don't.

    2. When God cleansed the earth of the wicked in Noah's Day, why wasn't that good enough?

    I've already posted much on this already. But to make sure the point wasn't missed. Noah was still tainted with inherited sin. Christ had not yet come to pay the ransom.
    Also, what happened in Noah's day was the result of Angels coming down from Heaven to have relations with woman. Gen. 6:1-4; Jude 6; 2Peter 2:4,5.
    The Earth became polluted by wicked Angels. This didn't leave the question to answer itself.
    If two opponents were fighting, and people were betting on an outcome. And then a third party steps in. It would disrupt the natural outcome. The third party would be taken out of the ring and the two would be sent to their corners. Once order was reestablish, the challenge would proceed.

    God cleansed the earth, gave man another fresh start and another opportunity to try it on his own again.
    The wicked angels lost their heavenly positions, and God repeated the direction to Noah and his family that he originally gave Adam and Eve.

    [url= 1:22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth."[/url]
    [url= 9:1 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth.[/url]


    3.Why doesn't God step in and fix this mess were in?
    I'll get to this later.

    Thanks for enduring my great wall of text.
    @Berd:

    I will pull one of my extremely intelligent replies out of my hat tomorrow, after i have a minute (a half-hour? ) to read your explanation without any distractions (family, co-workers etc.)
  14. #1214  
    The drink no wine before it's time thing keeps making me think of this joke:

    I saw this wino, he was eating grapes. I was like, "Dude, you have to wait."
    -Mitch Hedberg
  15. #1215  
    Quote Originally Posted by joshaccount View Post
    It's comments like this that make non-christians, agnostics, athiests, etc. giggle at the moronic, nonsensical mess that spews from a small segment of your ilk. If you want to make yourself sound ignorant, leave religion out of it, because in the perception of the masses, you are dragging others down with you.
    I know, seeing stuff like that, or the young earth people, makes me cringe.
  16.    #1216  
    Let me add a word about how I would like us to discuss this post:
    Quote Originally Posted by bullsnort10 View Post
    The Christian religion has alway's had the most blessings.The Christians have alway's had sight for things that could not be seen.(all the great minds of the history of man)When an apple hit let's say a different man on the head.(a man of different religion or faith)he simply threw the apple,muttered some bad words and stompped off.
    When an apple hit one of the greatest christians of all time.He was given guidance and asked what made that apple hit me on the head.And the first theory of gravity was discovered.(It was one of the greatest blessings man has ever been given)
    And there have been many since then.(electricity,medicine,penicillin,radio waves,heat theory,discovery of the atom,combustion,fuel,)
    How can someone discover the world is round when all they have is the piece of land they are standing on.And simply just looking.
    How could anyone come to realize it's so much bigger and better than what their eyes were telling them.
    And that goes for every major discovery man has been blessed with.The list goes on and on.Without the sight God has given man.We would still be hunter gatherers,dieing at the age of thirty,and clubbing your neighbor for looking at your woman the wrong way.
    1. Let's assume the poster is serious (as indicated in his 2nd clarifying post).
    2. While it might seem arrogant or "uncharitable" to say that Christian churches have the most blessings, let's remember that most "people of religion" would say something similar about their own belief. So I'd suggest we start off with a "position of respect" (simple acknowledgment) that this is the poster's view. Feel free to provide feedback on this, but more importantly, let's get at the root of why the poster feels this way.
    3. Discussing how religion might enhance or detract from scientific observations is something else this poster seems to want to address. We've done some of that already and more discussion might be fruitful. (Just try and read back through the thread and expand on of this after seeing what's been discussed (and accidentally dropped) so far.)
    4. The last topic this poster seems to be indicating is that we can be guided by "God's providence" (I'm not sure I've used the right word here). The "scientific" among us would do well to hear of "legitimate" and clear examples of this sort of thing happening.


    thanks, -- Bob
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  17. jwinn35's Avatar
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    #1217  
    My major problem when it comes to the non belief of a creator is this, if you look at the elements they are all that we are made of correct? So say you had a box full of parts to make a quad (4 wheeler) or something like that. Would ever in a million billion years would you believe that it may actually build its self by any imagination or circumstance? That is how i see our creation, we are exponentially more complexed than any quad could ever be yet some how we just came into existence from some lightening or whatever else some people believe, I just don't buy it for even a second that all life wasn't intelligently designed.
    Last edited by jwinn35; 03/05/2010 at 11:33 AM.
  18. #1218  
    Quote Originally Posted by jwinn35 View Post
    My major problem when it comes to the non belief of a creator is this, if you look at the elements they are all that we are made of correct? So say you had a box full of parts to make a quad (4 wheeler) or something like that out of. Would ever in a million billion years would you believe that it may actually build its self by any imagination or circumstance? That is how i see our creation, we are exponentially more complexed than any quad could ever be yet some how we just came into existence from some lightening or whatever else some people believe, I just don't buy it for even a second that all life wasn't intelligently designed.
    Interesting thought... but the parts of your quad are made of non-biological ("non-living") elements, unlike us. The elements we are created of are full of life and move and naturally interact with other elements, unlike a box of bolts.

    Interestingly though you're box of bolts will activley corrode together into a giant clump, by biological elements. So it wont magically move and build itself but it will "magically" morph into an entire living ecosystem. So yes it will make something all on its own by the elements, like how all other living things were created by the elemntal laws of attraction.
    Last edited by gsonspre; 03/05/2010 at 11:56 AM.
  19. jwinn35's Avatar
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    #1219  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsonspre View Post
    Interesting thought... but the parts of your quad are made of non-biological ("non-living") elements, unlike us. The elements we are created of are full of life and move and naturally interact with other elements, unlike a box of bolts.
    I understand what your saying, but I would put more emphasis on the fact that we are so much more complex that what is the likeliness that there could ever just be a chance that so much could just come from chance its self. Also the Bible is the only book in history to ever be so spot on with prophecy, that the mathematical chance of so many things coming to fruition is basically zero, when it comes to being false documentation.
  20. jwinn35's Avatar
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    #1220  
    check this link here explaining some of the prophetic natures of the bible, that cannot be historically disputed. http://www.believers.org/hughross.htm

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