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  1. #861  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    I know dbd, I still haven't gotten to why didn't God 'finish the job' in Noah's day. I haven't forgotten.
    It's ok, you know i'll be here...

    I do find it interesting that nobody else is taking on this question though.
    Last edited by dbdoinit; 02/25/2010 at 04:23 AM.
  2. #862  
    God accomplished what He wanted to accomplish . I would say that sums it up. Lol
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  3.    #863  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    We can rest assured that God will do what is right.

    Job 34:10 "So listen to me, you men of understanding. Far be it from God to do evil, from the Almighty to do wrong.
    Wow! What a nice website. I like how it showed lots of parallel translations. @rileyinstl: Check out the "Living Bible" compared with the other translations and see how it "nails" the message in everyday language. By comparing the translations, you can see that "evil" is not something that "exists" (like a car) but instead is something that is caused by a person(s) who sins. (This is why I say multiple translations of the Bible results in a richer (rather than a degraded) message.)

    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    (It's also good to read verses in their context)
    I can't tell you how many times I've "fallen victim" to the "trap" of looking at "sound bytes" in the Bible. It really helps to have a few friends who read the same stuff in parallel with you (or to discuss things online, or with a priest/pastor after you have developed your own understanding). For Catholics, there's an index in the back of the "CCC" (Catechism) of all the Bible passages referenced in the Catechism. Many Bibles have footnotes and references to related passages in the margins.

    In this particular Bible website, it's easy to just click on the name of the bible for any translation that you want to read the entire chapter for. (Just remember the verse number before clicking, visually spot where the verse is in the text, and then read the chapter.

    Also notice the "Commentary" section on this website. Often this will give you views from various prolific "theologians" and they often represent a particular religious view. Each denomination has it's own "lens" (their overall beliefs) that shapes how they read/interpret various passages. You can google the name of the commentary to get an idea where they are coming from. This is a great way to sort out why different faiths believe what they do.
    Last edited by sudoer; 02/25/2010 at 07:06 AM.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  4.    #864  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadavis08 View Post
    God accomplished what He wanted to accomplish . I would say that sums it up. Lol
    Let's also be clear that God is far from just "sitting in Heaven" waiting for the world to "do it's thing". God exists in 3 persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is very much at work in each of our lives when we are open to "hearing" God's word. One of my favorite parts in the Gospel of Mark is where Jesus tells someone that even though he's here on Earth, God is still 'running the world' (my words).
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  5. #865  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Let's also be clear that God is far from just "sitting in Heaven" waiting for the world to "do it's thing". God exists in 3 persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is very much at work in each of our lives when we are open to "hearing" God's word. One of my favorite parts in the Gospel of Mark is where Jesus tells someone that even though he's here on Earth, God is still 'running the world' (my words).
    yes he's running the world but only through his people is he doing so . We as the bride have to do our part too. And Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God not here on earth the Holy Spirit is here and we have access to Jesus through the Holy Spirit and to God through Jesus
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  6.    #866  
    Some might argue that miracles, earthquakes, and the final coming aren't won't be be works of God done through people.
  7. #867  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Some might argue that miracles, earthquakes, and the final coming aren't won't be be works of God done through people.
    Yes, quite right. I would be willing to argue that. Especially the earthquake bit. I believe those have been shown to be the direct result of plate tectonics.....earth's crust floating around on a liquid molten core.
  8. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #868  
    Quote Originally Posted by joshaccount View Post
    Ok, but help me out here. If I do live the good life, yet cannot accept Christ as my saviour, am I living the sweet afterlife or smoldering forever? I need to know.
    No one can really say. General Christian belief tends towards saying that you cannot have a "sweet afterlife" without Christ. Others believe in the mountain theory--there are many paths to the top.

    Nice Avatar BTW.

    KAM
  9. #869  
    Originally Posted by joshaccount
    Ok, but help me out here. If I do live the good life, yet cannot accept Christ as my saviour, am I living the sweet afterlife or smoldering forever? I need to know.
    No one can really say. General Christian belief tends towards saying that you cannot have a "sweet afterlife" without Christ. Others believe in the mountain theory--there are many paths to the top.

    Nice Avatar BTW.

    KAM
    I've read several posts talking about how science and faith are totally different. While I think those two thought groups definitely split the lines on how people feel about God, I think they can very much work together. In fact, there is plenty of science out there that proves God's existence! A video called "The Priviledged Planet" comes to mind; it explains the perfect balance that allows our planet to exist in a violent universe.

    I saw another post that said history can't be debated, but the Bible could. Well, the Bible is considered to be one of the most historically accurate books ever written. If you're willing to do the research, and take into consideration the customs and laws of the time, as well as the context surrounding the different books (when they were written), it becomes apparent.

    Another person mentioned how they struggle with God because he allows terrible things to happen to totally innocent people. First of all, not a single person on this planet is innocent. We were all born into a fallen world and each of us is evil at the core. Do we have to teach a child how to misbehave? No. We're all selfish by nature because of the sin that entered the world through Adam and Eve. God's standards are very high, and because we're not Him, we cannot ever meet them. Thus we can never be sinless.

    That's what wonderful about God. He loves us all of us very much and has allowed a way for our sins to be "washed away", so we can be seen as innocent. That's why He sent Jesus to earth to die for our sins.

    Think of it as a trial. We're on trial with God (who's judge) for sins and we've been found guilty because we can't possibly meet all of God's perfect standards (10 commandments). Just before we receive our punishment, Jesus walks into the courtroom and says He'll take the punishment on our behalf. We're then faced with a choice. Do we accept the gift Jesus is offering, or refuse it? By accepting Jesus's gift, we get to walk away...acquitted. If not, we face God's judgment alone.

    Several of you mentioned how we're talking about the "Christian" God. I thought I'd mention how Christianity is different than the other religions, because it's the only one where God condescends to us; out of His love for us. We can never be good enough to be sinless; to reach God or His standards. Therefore, God sent Jesus to live among us and to be killed by us...creating the path for salvation through Christ.

    As such, in response to the previous post, we CAN say what will happen if you live the good life without Christ. It's been laid out in black & white in the Bible. The most famous verse says it plainly (John 3:16). Jesus said, "...no may come to the Father except through Me..."

    Lastly, I'll close with a question. I know the topic of morality has come up several times. If there's isn't a good and perfect God, then what separates good from evil? In other words, what makes murder wrong? The internal "good/evil" sensor within each of us? If we're each born with such a sensor (assuming there is no God), and I chose to do something "bad", I would be perfectly justified in doing it since it didn't register as "evil", right? You may say it's because of the laws in place that makes it wrong, but where do those laws come from? Who decided that it would be good to have a law forbidding some evil action, and why should it apply to me?

    Thanks for sticking with my diatribe!

    -Karla
  10.    #870  
    Quote Originally Posted by soccerbudd View Post
    I've read several posts ...

    ... we CAN say what will happen if you live the good life without Christ. It's been laid out in black & white in the Bible. The most famous verse says it plainly (John 3:16). Jesus said, "...no may come to the Father except through Me..."
    Thanks for reading through the thread and for the great guidance you gave in your post. (This is an example of what I mean when I say the Bible is best read "not alone" but in discussion with others!)

    For reference, here are the quotations of the verses that Karla mentioned (from the ESV translation):
    Quote Originally Posted by John10:6
    Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
    Quote Originally Posted by John3:16
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  11.    #871  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadavis08 View Post
    yes he's running the world but only through his people is he doing so . We as the bride have to do our part too. And Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God not here on earth the Holy Spirit is here and we have access to Jesus through the Holy Spirit and to God through Jesus
    People might not understand the concept of His believers being the "Bride of Christ". One of us should explain this. (I'll EDIT IN something HERE if no one else wants to tackle this first.)

    EDIT: Here's a fairly neutral explanation of "The Bride of Christ" (from Wikipedia). Many Christian denominations have widely different interpretations of the book of Revelation. Colossians 3 is a good place to see how Christian families are like "mini churches" themselves. (Colossians 4 follows on with how Christians are to act with non-Christians.) Romans 12 also addresses Christian people as a "body" and is also a good place to understand this concept and Ephesians 4 is a good place to see how Jesus expects Christians to be one united Church.

    but Ephesians 5:25 is the verse that I think best nails the concept of "Bride of Christ":
    Quote Originally Posted by Ephesians 5:25
    Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church ...
    Last edited by sudoer; 02/25/2010 at 11:27 AM.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  12. #872  
    Im sooo bummed!
    God just punished me!!!!!!
    I wrote a nice long response (you know me) and I hit a wrong button and closed my tabs!

    PS JK about the god punishing me thing!

    I will repost in a min!
  13.    #873  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsonspre View Post
    God just punished me!!!!!!
    I use the (less than Christian) "**** Happens!" phrase to describe this phenomenon
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  14. #874  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    I use the (less than Christian) "**** Happens!" phrase to describe this phenomenon
    haha
  15. #875  
    Still reading through this forum and finding lots of interesting opinions, some well thought out, some not. While reading an article this morning, I came across this little gem, and I quote:

    "We are a people estranged from critical thinking, divorced from logic, alienated from even objective truth. We admit no ideas that do not confirm us, hear no voices that do not echo us, sift out all information that does not validate what we wish to believe."

    I think this is an accurate description of the 2010 American, including people on this forum, and certainly myself.

    Thoughts?
  16. #876  
    Quote Originally Posted by soccerbudd View Post
    I've read several posts talking about how science and faith are totally different. While I think those two thought groups definitely split the lines on how people feel about God, I think they can very much work together. In fact, there is plenty of science out there that proves God's existence! A video called "The Priviledged Planet" comes to mind; it explains the perfect balance that allows our planet to exist in a violent universe.

    -Karla
    Karla, I would like specific examples of science proving gods existence, as I have been patiently waiting for this information since I was 12. I have a feeling that scientific conclusion would be ground-breaking, stop-the-presses, international news -- immediately -- upon the very moment of discovery. Are you referring to the theory of intelligent design? Can you be more specific?
  17. #877  
    Quote Originally Posted by soccerbudd View Post
    I've read several posts talking about how science and faith are totally different. While I think those two thought groups definitely split the lines on how people feel about God, I think they can very much work together. In fact, there is plenty of science out there that proves God's existence! A video called "The Priviledged Planet" comes to mind; it explains the perfect balance that allows our planet to exist in a violent universe.
    Well its nice to see a new face hear. Unfortunately we are now starting to look outnumbered! OK I give, we lost! haha JK
    I know its not "us" vs "them" But we look forward to any insight one has to bring!

    I agree with you on part of this point, I feel religion and scientists and archeologists really need to start working together more and making their actions more publicly present, to be followed (If anyone knows of any they could reference that would be great!). I would love to see a mythbuster like show on religion with a neutral focus. My fears is that the church would not like to do this sort of stuff publicly bc if it turns out against them it would create more work and back peddling for them (in some cases)... just a thought..
    I have not seen this film you are refering to, but I have read a few things on the links of the earths miracles to a God but they just point out that things "work too good" for it to be a coincedence... I disagree... It just happens that our genetic makeup and what we evolved from thrives on the elements of our planet. We dont know what life form is under the surface of other planets? We dont know if there is interplanetary life, that thrives on a completely different set of elements making "our miracles" just a coincidence...
    So to bring this back to God... What happens if and when we find life on other planets? Are the "aliens" going to believe in a god, will they tink our believes are foolish? Is there a different God for each planetary "being"? How is this find going to effect the bible? There is no mention of interplanetary life in the bible, Id be curious on how the church would handle this phenomenon. Would God love the aliens as much as he loves us, would it be an equal love or them more?
    Sudoer mentioned God only present himself to things he wants to know of his existence... So where do the animals go when they die? Is the only options after death Heaven or Hell?

    I hope my questions do not start annoying... I will just be a philosopher no answers just questions!
  18. #878  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsonspre View Post
    ...clip...
    What happens if and when we find life on other planets? Are the "aliens" going to believe in a god, will they tink our believes are foolish? Is there a different God for each planetary "being"? How is this find going to effect the bible? There is no mention of interplanetary life in the bible, Id be curious on how the church would handle this phenomenon. Would God love the aliens as much as he loves us, would it be an equal love or them more?
    ...clip...
    I also like to let my imagination run.

    If we were to think of possible life on other planets, we can really open this discussion up to just about anywhere we want to take it. Not saying they aren't out there. Just think it's fun thinking.

    Think about this;
    Where is the end of the universe? After that, what is out there? How far does the nothing past the edge of our universe go?
    How big are we? How small are we?
    Is there people so small that we couldn't see them with the most powerful microscope? Are there people so big that they can't see us even with the most powerful microscope?

    I remember way back when my buddy and I were smoking banana peels arguing whether trees dream or not?
    Just call me Berd.
  19. Micael's Avatar
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    #879  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Some Protestants believe this, but not all. I have a friend whose church is trying to "convert" me, and their view is much more nuanced (and "acceptable enough" for me that I "worry less" about them). The agree you are "saved instantly", but they say that you won't know (for sure) whether you are saved unless your your life reflects the way the Bible teaches that will be used by God in the final judgment.
    With all due respect, sudoer, but your friend isn't 'thinking'. You either are saved based on faith, or you're not. It can't be nuanced. The second you nuance it, it completely wipes away the 'salvation by faith'. As soon is you diverge, it's salvation by works. There's no gray area here.
    Essentially, if you "go bad", then you weren't really saved in the first place (because you didn't *really* believe). I've dealt with other Christian groups that say exactly what you said (but I've since learned that these groups seem to be out for "easy conversions"). Each church does what they believe to be correct based on their (pastor's) understanding of the Bible. That does not satisfy me, hence the reason I never converted to any of these churches. I do appreciate their sincerity. I like them for the same reason why I'm liking this thread: because it challenges me to think about whether my position is still right or not (and it forces me to learn both their faith and mine).
    It sounds to me that you are much more comfortable with the works idea vs. the faith one.
    Except you probably also have evangelists from every "wrong" religion knocking on your door every day (still trying to convince you how to "get to Heaven").
    For me, every religion that claims to be -the- pathway to god is "wrong".
    I'm getting a bit tired of mentioning the Catholic teaching. (I think you already "got the idea" enough in previous posts.)
    I did before hand. One half of my family was/is Catholic, the other half Protestant. Hey! Maybe that's why I was so conflicted as a young man and decided to find my own path!
    This depends on the group. Most believe you are damned to hell. Some don't believe that hell is "permanent" (but more like an incinerator where you are disposed).

    This is sort of a "nice causal description" of one of the forms. Hopefully I'll understand it better once I do my (what's wrong with) "left behind" study.


    I think this is a healthy way to think unless God is able to reveal something more clear and more logical to you. -- thx
    I don't believe God reveals himself selectively to individuals. I believe His gift to all of us is logic and reason, and it's up to us to apply those gifts and come to our own realizations.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  20. #880  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    One half of my family was/is Catholic, the other half Protestant. Hey! Maybe that's why I was so conflicted as a young man and decided to find my own path!
    Hey! Me too!
    Grampa Side = Catholic
    Grandma Side = Protestant
    Result = No Religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I don't believe God reveals himself selectively to individuals. I believe His gift to all of us is logic and reason, and it's up to us to apply those gifts and come to our own realizations.
    I'm starting to like you after all.
    Just call me Berd.

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