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  1. #821  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    If he let Noah die, then there would have been no link to Adam from here, right?
    So why didn't he finish the job the first time?
    Please elaborate.
    I'm not sure what you're asking.
    Just call me Berd.
  2. groovy's Avatar
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    #822  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    You thought that would answer the question regarding people who don't have the mental ability to even think for themselves enough to get through each and every day without adult assistance?

    (Whew! That was almost a run-on sentence.)
    It was meant to address the question of salvation for “the millions that were not raised to know of a Jesus” and, hopefully, the question of whether or not anyone is qualified to say whom God will and will not save.

    A sentence for a sentence.
  3. #823  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Please elaborate.
    I'm not sure what you're asking.
    The ONLY link from us to Adam and Eve is through Noah, correct?
    God used a "great flood" to cleanse the wicked Earth, correct?
    He only saved Noah because Noah earned this "prize", right?
    Why then, couldn't he just do a complete job the first time, and save Noah with the rest of the God loving people afterwards; thus avoiding this mess altogether?
  4. #824  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    This has been debated to death here a number of times. I believe the outcome was that neither side could convince the other side they were crazy.

    Yeah? Well...remember....Psychology is considered a science and really, it's just a bunch of hocus pocus...but the majority of people would say it has some "truth" to it, yes?
    But, the most recent advances in neuroscience show that many, if not all, of Psychology's theories are no more "real" or "true" than alchemy is today!
    So, before you leave ridiculous picture-posts like this one, realize that you only believe the way you do about science because your brain has been wired that way... And now, every time you hear or see anything even tangentially connected to this "argument" your brain will shoot off the "correct" actions as you've been fixed to react to them....so there! [raspberry sound] followed by [loud, maniacal, laughing] and a "just kidding" look upon my face so as not to incur your wrath! Lol...

    (Oh yeah...and btw? You're damned to hell for those thoughts!! He he he)

    Which reminds me....I'm watching this show that used to be on ABC (Defying Gravity) and it was really good. Wish I'd known it was on the air when it was last year...
    Anywho...one character, Paula Morales, is an extremely religious person (yeah...and making her a Latina Christian WAS NOT stereotypical, huh?) and at first, it was cool. Then around episode 6 or 7...she starts telling people that they have no beliefs and that they would go to hell...blah blah blah.
    In other words, in America (or really, the Western World) Christians are portrayed as freakin' psychopaths.... But, another character...equally religious...but a Hindu...was portrayed as being very, very wise!! So...why is that? Here we have Christian's who are NOT anything like how they're portrayed on t.v...yet obviously, the media does a lot to push that view. And then we have a man who's religion worships gods with the head of elephants...or 6 armed destroyers of worlds...AND make cows holy...but THEY are considered wise beyond their years???
    Same thing with Muslims on t.v. They're ALWAYS the voice of reason...riiiiiight! But, us Christians are always mad dogs that need to be put down...like that Stephen King movie The Mist...where OF COURSE the evil woman just HAD to be Christian...

    While I never push my Christianity on others...and I don't necessarily buy into End Times beliefs, I DO find it very odd that the whole world seems to be persecuting Christians...so much so, that most of us are actually afraid to even ADMIT we believe in God and Jesus...and that's really a shame!
    You people, like Richard Dawkins, really need to get a life! What I find ironic is...atheists and non-Christians always complain that we are trying to convert them or push our views upon others....and yet...I see more books denying God and Christ and more people writing inane posts online trying to convince Christians that they are wrong and nuts! So who's really proselytizing, huh???
    Plus....all atheists just LOOOOOVE to point out that so many people have been killed by Christians...and yet....they always, and usually only, point to the Crusades....and the Inquisition...which is really strange considering these are 500-1000 years ago (although the Inquistion DID last, in some cases, well into the 18th century)!! But, atheists never pay attention to the fact that just as many people, if not actually more, were killed by atheists just in the last century!! Just combine the atrocities of the U.S.S.R. and China, and you're in the hundreds of millions dead.....ALL BECAUSE OF GODLESS HEATHENS! Lol...ironic, yes? And THAT'S the real way to use irony...not using it as coincidence!

    Other than that...I really don't care...and I wish all people the best no matter what they believe. That's the beauty of free will...although, those same neuroscience studies I vaguely referenced earlier? Well...they also point out that if we are wired according to external stimuli...then there really IS NO free will, per se. I guess the Devil made me do it, huh? Didn't Mohammed say that as well?
  5.    #825  
    Conversion stories (Atheist to Catholic)

    Here are some MP3 recordings of conversion stories of various people who were Atheist at one point in their life before converting to Catholicism. Some of these people were religious, then atheist, and eventually Catholic and others started out as atheists. These stories were presented during a program titled "The Journey Home with Marcus Grodi" on EWTN.

    I'm posting links to these stories as I believe some/many/most of our readers may have at times asked similar questions and I'm hoping maybe there is someone in the list below whose journey you can identify with.

    Anglican - Atheist - Buddhist (20 yrs) - Paul Williams 02/17/03
    Former Anglican - Atheist - Buddhist (20 yrs) describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: English Buddhist Professor There is no final answer about God in Buddhism.. Listen Online

    Atheist - Anglican - "GK Chesterton" 02/16/04
    Former Atheist - Anglican describes journey into the Catholic Church.. Listen Online

    Atheist - Anglican - William Oldie 06/16/03
    Former Atheist - Anglican describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: Editor, Catholic Herald.. Listen Online

    Atheist - Anglican Seminary Prof - David Mills 12/09/02
    Former Atheist - Anglican Seminary Prof describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: Minimalism.. Listen Online

    Atheist - Bible Evangelical - Fr. John Bartunek 03/21/05
    Former Atheist - Bible Evangelical describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: Movie: The Passion of the Christ.. Listen Online

    Atheist - Dr. Paul Vitz 08/19/02
    Former Atheist describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: Psychology as Religion.. Listen Online

    Atheist - Evangelical, non-denominational Protestant - Gary Hoge 07/26/04
    Former Atheist - Evangelical, non-denominational Protestant describes journey into the Catholic Church.. Listen Online

    Atheist - Former Swedish Lutheran - Fr. Tobias Unnerstal 07/10/06
    Former Atheist - Former Swedish Lutheran describes journey into the Catholic Church.. Listen Online

    Atheist - Fr. Jay Scott Newman 03/29/04
    Former Atheist describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: Scientific Materialism.. Listen Online

    Atheist - Hinduism - Fr. Jay Kythe 01/17/05
    Former Atheist - Hinduism describes journey into the Catholic Church.. Listen Online

    Atheist - *** - Dr. Ronda Chervin 08/22/05
    Former Atheist - *** describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: Love of Wisdom.. Listen Online

    Atheist - Marxist - Hari Christna - Hindu - Jean-Francois Thibeault 11/15/04
    Former Atheist - Marxist - Hari Christna - Hindu describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: Led a moral life as atheist - Beauty of Creation - Miracle - Watched video about Mejugoria.. Listen Online

    Atheist - Methodist minister - Dr. David Twellman 08/29/05
    Former Atheist - Methodist minister describes journey into the Catholic Church.. Listen Online

    Atheist - Pentecostal Minister - Paul Thigpen 01/16/98
    Former Atheist - Pentecostal Minister describes journey into the Catholic Church.. Listen Online

    Atheist - Pentecostal Minister - Paul Thigpen 08/02/04
    Former Atheist - Pentecostal Minister describes journey into the Catholic Church.. Listen Online

    Atheist - Pentecostal Minister - Paul Thigpen 09/12/05
    Former Atheist - Pentecostal Minister describes journey into the Catholic Church.. Listen Online

    Atheist - Pentecostal Minister - Paul Thigpen 12/04/98
    Former Atheist - Pentecostal Minister describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: 2nd Time Open Line.. Listen Online

    Atheist - Pentecostal Minister - Paul Thigpen 12/10/99
    Former Atheist - Pentecostal Minister describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: With wife Leisa Thigpen.. Listen Online

    Atheist - Pentecostal Minister - Paul Thigpen 12/31/01
    Former Atheist - Pentecostal Minister describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: Rapture.. Listen Online

    Atheist - Scott McDermott 04/03/06
    Former Atheist describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: 2nd Open Line.. Listen Online

    Atheist Gay - Scott A. McDermott 10/13/03
    Former Atheist Gay describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: Gay Lifestyle - Charles Carroll.. Listen Online

    Atheist Secular *** - Karen Koskoff 07/28/03
    Former Atheist Secular *** describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: Studies about faith and healing - dream.. Listen Online

    Atheist Skinhead - Joseph Pearce 03/03/03
    Former Atheist Skinhead describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: 2nd Open Line Ave Maria.. Listen Online

    Atheist Skinhead - Joseph Pearce 11/19/01
    Former Atheist Skinhead describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: Literary Converts.. Listen Online

    Atheist Unitarian Minister - Evangelical Protestan - Thomas Richard 06/18/01
    Former Atheist Unitarian Minister - Evangelical Protestan describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: Ordinay Path to Holiness Author Science - Unitarian Minister - New Age Relativism.. Listen Online

    Atheist to Assem of God to Priest - Terrance Staples 03/05/01
    Former Atheist to Assem of God to Priest describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: EE Justification -- Works and Righteousness.. Listen Online

    Atheist. - Alexander Deriev 10/16/06
    Former Atheist... Listen Online

    Atheists - Fr. Jay Scott Newman, Scott McDermott, Dr. Joseph 04/17/06
    Former Atheists describes journey into the Catholic Church.. Listen Online

    Baptist - Atheist - J. Budziszewski 05/09/05
    Former Baptist - Atheist describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: Nilist.. Listen Online

    Cultural J e w - Atheist - Myron Moskowitz 03/31/03
    Former Cultural J e w - Atheist describes journey into the Catholic Church.. Listen Online

    Lutheran to Atheist - Steven W. Mosher 04/28/00
    Former Lutheran to Atheist describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: Population Research Institute -- China Abortion.. Listen Online

    Lutheran to Atheist - Steven W. Mosher 05/02/05
    Former Lutheran to Atheist describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: 2nd Time.. Listen Online

    Mom - atheist Dad - nominal *** - Michael Coren 06/13/05
    Former Mom - atheist Dad - nominal J e w describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: Mom Presbyterian minister yet nonbeliever Her mom was atheist converted by von Hildebrands.. Listen Online

    Nominal Anglican - Atheist - Rob Rodgers 09/15/03
    Former Nominal Anglican - Atheist describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: Alcoholic.. Listen Online

    Pagan, Atheist - John Barger 02/03/03
    Former Pagan, Atheist describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: 1st of Mind then later 2nd conversion of Heart.. Listen Online

    Pagan, Atheist - John Barger 09/25/00
    Former Pagan, Atheist describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: What is Truth.. Listen Online

    Revert - Atheist - Anthony Rizzi 06/09/03
    Former Revert - Atheist describes journey into the Catholic Church Note: Physicist.. Listen Online
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  6. #826  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    The ONLY link from us to Adam and Eve is through Noah, correct?
    God used a "great flood" to cleanse the wicked Earth, correct?
    He only saved Noah because Noah earned this "prize", right?
    Why then, couldn't he just do a complete job the first time, and save Noah with the rest of the God loving people afterwards; thus avoiding this mess altogether?
    I really, really apologize for still not getting your drift.
    I just went and got another cup of coffee to see if that will help.

    First though, Noah didn't 'earn'.
    God saw good in him.

    As to why God did what he did then, and only what he did then, most likely had to do with timing, and the situation. Angels had came down form heaven, materialized, and impregnated earthly women. They gave birth to these 'High-Breeds' and the earth became filled with violence.

    The answer as to the goodness of God's ruling was still in question.
    Also God's 'Sacred Secret' wrapped up in the Christ (Messiah) still was unfulfilled. God knows just when to act, and how to act that will bring the greatest good.

    Keep in mind. God has a means for undoing all the pain. Jesus gave a taste of it while he walked the earth. The question will be answered universally and eternally.

    Pain and Suffering that we have brought upon ourselves can be put in light of this:
    2 Corinthians 4:17 For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all.
    Just call me Berd.
  7. #827  
    Sudoer:

    I seriously appreciate all the work you put into that post, but why does the word "infommercial" keep nagging me right now?
  8. #828  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    The ONLY link from us to Adam and Eve is through Noah, correct?
    God used a "great flood" to cleanse the wicked Earth, correct?
    He only saved Noah because Noah earned this "prize", right?
    Why then, couldn't he just do a complete job the first time, and save Noah with the rest of the God loving people afterwards; thus avoiding this mess altogether?
    Hah!
    I knew the coffee would help me.

    I think I get you now.

    Noah was a good person, and only allowing the good from this point forward wasn't yet possible in God's time frame.
    Jesus had not yet came and 'bought back' what Adam lost.
    Noah was still imperfect, and his sons were still subject to our imperfect tendency to shrug God's authority. We still demonstrate that to our day.
    Just call me Berd.
  9. #829  
    Berd:
    I'll get back to you on this.
    Hitting the road right now...
  10. #830  
    Quote Originally Posted by couch1970 View Post
    You people, like Richard Dawkins, really need to get a life!
    Just Googled the guy and I think getting a life is actually his whole point.

    "THERE'S PROBABLY NO GOD. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."
    Last edited by ryleyinstl; 02/24/2010 at 02:34 PM.
  11.    #831  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    Sudoer:

    I seriously appreciate all the work you put into that post, but why does the word "infommercial" keep nagging me right now?
    I believe the information they contain is on-topic and might actually help people to understand the evils of many religions. Maybe if you stop the player about halfway through you can avoid the "Catholic" part!
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  12. #832  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Hah!
    I knew the coffee would help me.

    I think I get you now.

    Noah was a good person, and only allowing the good from this point forward wasn't yet possible in God's time frame.
    Jesus had not yet came and 'bought back' what Adam lost.
    Noah was still imperfect, and his sons were still subject to our imperfect tendency to shrug God's authority. We still demonstrate that to our day.
    Yes, that coffee did help.
    That's what i was talking about..

    More later-
    Driving now.
  13. #833  
    Speculate for a moment.
    What made Satan decide to rebel against God?
    Did Satan have a legit reason to refuse God's way of doing things?

    Maybe God doesn't have to answer - He's God, does he really need to answer to anyone? Maybe he could of just bumped off all the Rebels. How would this prevent another from developing these same concerns.
    Remember; Angels have Freewill also. They can choose to serve God or go their own way, as did Satan.

    God is allowing enough time to answer all questions to his authority.
    Is it to make a point? No. Because honestly, most of us are too stubborn headed to get the point anyway.

    I asked the question earlier; 'do we think we can make this work on our own?' Some think we still can. God says we can't.
    God, as any loving parent, is giving us the chance to try it on our own.
    He wants us to come home.

    John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
    Just call me Berd.
  14. #834  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Speculate for a moment.
    What made Satan decide to rebel against God?
    Did Satan have a legit reason to refuse God's way of doing things?
    I think its like Adican(?) skywalker!
    Im Soooo powerful look what I can do! What a jerk!

    Ok so words of the bible explained evil in humans...
    What about the bad doings of nature? Tsunami's, earthquakes, volcano's, floods, hurricanes... etc, etc....?
    I feel it's Mother Natures population control? (would God ever do a population control for the sole sake of overpopulation? not like the "great flood" to rid of evil.)

    Couldnt God kill Satan? Did Satan create hell or did God? Is the lack of killing evil a test for us if we can overcome the perversions of evil?
    If you are the Ultimate Evil person like H i t l e r is it possible that you would be embraced by Satan and live happily in Hell?
    Is it a sin if we try to take on God's work and kill evil?
    If we do and get the message wrong do we go to hell for the miunderstanding?
    Who was told the story of Adam and Eve to write down? (Bc Adam and Eve existed before there was language!?)

    I think these are my "Evil" questions....

    I have non evil questions too! They can be addressed later for the sake of keeping on topic...
    Could a living being in their after life become and angel?
    Could Micael still go to heaven for not believing in religion but believing in God even if he doesnt embrace Jesus as "The Son of God"?
    If one lives there life as an atheist but still follows the laws of the 10 commandments would God still allow him in to heaven?
    If an agnostic searches his entire life in good faith, but has failed to be convinced one way or another does he go to hell?
    Same question for anyone in any other religion?
    Would God immediately send them to hell or would he make a decision based on that person?
    Where do ghosts stand to religion? Is there mention of them in the bible and do religious people believe in them and how are they portrayed?
    Sorry for the thousand questions! But some questioons that can keep the thread going strong!
    Last edited by gsonspre; 02/24/2010 at 03:57 PM. Reason: Because I think too much!
  15. Micael's Avatar
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    #835  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsonspre View Post
    Could Micael still go to heaven for not believing in religion but believing in God even if he doesnt embrace Jesus as "The Son of God"?
    If one lives there life as an atheist but still follows the laws of the 10 commandments would God still allow him in to heaven?
    If an agnostic searches his entire life in good faith, but has failed to be convinced one way or another does he go to hell?
    Same question for anyone in any other religion?
    Would God immediately send them to hell or would he make a decision based on that person?
    Where do ghosts stand to religion? Is there mention of them in the bible and do religious people believe in them and how are they portrayed?
    Sorry for the thousand questions! But some questioons that can keep the thread going strong!
    If I understand Protestant Christianity, and please correct me, but the answer basically boils down to this:

    If you accept Christ as your saviour, you're in. Period.

    If someone reveals to you the story of Christ, and you reject or ignore it, or choose a different path; you're off to the seven gates for eternity to listen to unending Barry Manilow songs.

    If you've never heard the story of Christ.... somehow you've lived in isolation and cut off from his story, but you live your life aligned with its principles, then you will be judged and might get in to Heaven. An alternative to this that I've heard is that you go to Hell first, Christ reveals himself to you there, and if you accept you're off to fluff clouds, sunny skies, and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. (this version was interesting because in fact there is no "time" in Hell, so in effect, all souls were already there that were going to be there at the time of the cruxifiction. Christ goes down and reveals himself there and loads up the bus for heaven, before going back to earth to show himself to his apostles.... the trip is mentioned in the creed).

    For me, it's all conceptualizing life after death. I personally believe that there is such a thing, and it's not related to man made religion, but is a part of what God created.
    Last edited by Micael; 02/24/2010 at 04:01 PM.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  16. #836  
    Some good questions, gsonspre.
  17. #837  
    I would like to personally thank everyone for taking the time and contribute their Ideas, belief's and knowledge to this thread! This is way more educating then Church but the closest you will get me to it!
  18. #838  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    For me, it's all conceptualizing life after death. I personally believe that there is such a thing, and it's not related to man made religion, but is a part of what God created.
    Loved your response!
    so what you are saying (IF religion is true) is that you are open to accept Hell until Jesus presents himself to you!!?
    Which makes me want to ask...
    Would Jesus present himself to you "visually" in hell or like he presents himself to you now (being that he does???)!?
    And if we are in hell how would we know that it is not Satan presenting a hoax to further damn you for not accepting him!?
  19. #839  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Hah!
    I knew the coffee would help me.

    I think I get you now.

    Noah was a good person, and only allowing the good from this point forward wasn't yet possible in God's time frame.
    Jesus had not yet came and 'bought back' what Adam lost.
    Noah was still imperfect, and his sons were still subject to our imperfect tendency to shrug God's authority. We still demonstrate that to our day.
    Didn't you guys basically say that the word "time" is not in God's vocabulary? That he is not constrained by it?
    And if Jesus had "not yet come" and brought back what Adam had lost, why didn't God arrange to have that done?
    If he is almighty, why didn't he get things finished the first time he cleansed the Earth?
    (I hope you don't think i'm mocking your opinions, i'm just trying to understand all this.)
    Last edited by dbdoinit; 02/24/2010 at 04:25 PM.
  20.    #840  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    If I understand Protestant Christianity, and please correct me, but the answer basically boils down to this:

    If you accept Christ as your saviour, you're in. Period.
    Some Protestants believe this, but not all. I have a friend whose church is trying to "convert" me, and their view is much more nuanced (and "acceptable enough" for me that I "worry less" about them). The agree you are "saved instantly", but they say that you won't know (for sure) whether you are saved unless your your life reflects the way the Bible teaches that will be used by God in the final judgment. Essentially, if you "go bad", then you weren't really saved in the first place (because you didn't *really* believe). I've dealt with other Christian groups that say exactly what you said (but I've since learned that these groups seem to be out for "easy conversions"). Each church does what they believe to be correct based on their (pastor's) understanding of the Bible. That does not satisfy me, hence the reason I never converted to any of these churches. I do appreciate their sincerity. I like them for the same reason why I'm liking this thread: because it challenges me to think about whether my position is still right or not (and it forces me to learn both their faith and mine).

    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    If someone reveals to you the story of Christ, and you reject or ignore it, or choose a different path; you're off to the seven gates for eternity to listen to unending Barry Manilow songs.
    Except you probably also have evangelists from every "wrong" religion knocking on your door every day (still trying to convince you how to "get to Heaven").

    I'm getting a bit tired of mentioning the Catholic teaching. (I think you already "got the idea" enough in previous posts.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    If you've never heard the story of Christ.... somehow you've lived in isolation and cut off from his story, but you live your life aligned with its principles, then you will be judged and might get in to Heaven.
    This depends on the group. Most believe you are damned to hell. Some don't believe that hell is "permanent" (but more like an incinerator where you are disposed).

    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    An alternative to this that I've heard is that you go to Hell first, Christ reveals himself to you there, and if you accept you're off to fluff clouds, sunny skies, and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. (this version was interesting because in fact there is no "time" in Hell, so in effect, all souls were already there that were going to be there at the time of the cruxifiction. Christ goes down and reveals himself there and loads up the bus for heaven, before going back to earth to show himself to his apostles.... the trip is mentioned in the creed).
    This is sort of a "nice causal description" of one of the forms. Hopefully I'll understand it better once I do my (what's wrong with) "left behind" study.

    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    For me, it's all conceptualizing life after death. I personally believe that there is such a thing, and it's not related to man made religion, but is a part of what God created.
    I think this is a healthy way to think unless God is able to reveal something more clear and more logical to you. -- thx
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!

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