Page 38 of 89 FirstFirst ... 2833343536373839404142434888 ... LastLast
Results 741 to 760 of 1780
  1. #741  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    If you don't take it literally (or close) then it means whatever you want it to mean and therefor means nothing at all.
    Yes and no.
    Much of what is written in Revelation is symbolic (in no way to be taken literally) However; much of what is written in Revelation can be understood by comparing with what was written before. For example; Revelation talks a lot about Beasts. We find by comparing these with the writings of Daniel that these Beasts are Ruling Powers.
    Earlier we talked about 6 literal creative days. Most agree that these weren't 6 literal earthly days. Which later we read that 1000 years is as a day to God.
    Just how long a 'Creative Day' is, we do not know. It could be millions of years.
    God has no beginning. He isn't constrained by time.
    Just call me Berd.
  2. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #742  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Works don't gain one salvation. It isn't earned - It's a gift.
    But if there aren't works giving evidence of faith, the faith is dead.
    This is key to the misunderstanding that many non-religious people seem to have. They seem to think that you don't possess free will, because you are a robot simply following what God tells you, and of course that isn't the case. They fail to acknowledge that you don't earn salvation by your actions at all--it is as you say, given.

    I'm skeptical about the inability to understand this--even if the belief isn't shared. The concept really isn't that hard to master, yet it seems that some insist on denying the concept, instead of simply not believing. If one isn't willing to acknowledge what a Religion is and/or says about itself (whether you agree or not) then there is no possibility of understanding. It is simply an exercise in not listening.

    KAM
  3.    #743  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    The atrocities committed against the First Nations of Canada in the name of the Catholic Church Missions are good proof that there is no God or at least not one who "loves" all of man kind. Atrocities authorized by the Pope, a high ranking Christan leader.
    Can you please find/post some references/links describing the problem. I will address it (or the last question you asked) based on which question is most important to you. -- thx
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  4. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #744  
    You guys are way over my head with this christianity discussion. I take it we resolved the OP's original theme?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  5. rjwerth's Avatar
    Posts
    16 Posts
    Global Posts
    23 Global Posts
    #745  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    The atrocities committed against the First Nations of Canada in the name of the Catholic Church Missions are good proof that there is no God or at least not one who "loves" all of man kind. Atrocities authorized by the Pope, a high ranking Christan leader.
    Ok...I'll bite. Is this: Hidden From History > Home what you are referring to? If so, that web site seems to be run by a bunch of whack-jobs. Do you have a better reference?
  6. #746  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    You guys are way over my head with this christianity discussion.
    Start with the book of Genesis, and then skip directly to the book of John.
    Then follow thru with the other three Gospels. Finish up with the rest of the New Testament.
    Then, when time permits start over and read from cover to cover.
    Just call me Berd.
  7. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #747  
    Quote Originally Posted by rjwerth View Post
    Ok...I'll bite. Is this: Hidden From History > Home what you are referring to? If so, that web site seems to be run by a bunch of whack-jobs. Do you have a better reference?
    I have no idea what is being claimed here (the poster didn't bother to make any reference to what they declare), but I've noticed that amongst many anti-religious people (who often tout their "logic" or "facts") they eagerly adopt even preposterous claims that paint religion in a bad light.

    Now, I wouldn't deny that religions (some more than others) have done bad things, but there is an onslaught of distortions out there as well. Then you get someone like Dan Brown claiming that his books are grounded in fact, and a whole new crop of ignorance is planted. What's frightening is the eagerness in which these often complete fabrications are adopted--often with great fervor that is criticized amongst religious believers.

    Disclaimer: This isn't intended to point to anyone here specifically, and I compliment many of the non-religious posters here on their constructive discussion.

    KAM
  8.    #748  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    You guys are way over my head with this christianity discussion. I take it we resolved the OP's original theme?
    Perhaps, but definitely not in the context of non-Christian religions. In my case, my limited (and largely self-taught) understanding of my faith is the product of an initial crisis of faith after my college years. Since I'm the OP, I'm willing to either continue discussions or to "call this done" based on the needs of the group of people reading this thread. I have an advantage of having asked myself these questions for 25-30 years. I still consider myself at about the "baby food" level in my consumption of Holy Scripture.

    Your belief in God but not in religion was a real eye-opener for me. The other big surprise for me was that various faiths have different belief in hell (including faiths that believe you are incinerated in hell rather than living there in eternal isolation from God). I hope we can bring he conversation to areas outside of Christianity. Thanks for all of your posts as well as your feedback that we might be diverging topics. I hope people are able to post more information that you continue to find interesting. -- Bob
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  9. #749  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    You seem to be determined to keep making these simplistic declarations....
    I feel it's a simple subject more or less. Either you believe in what is written in the bible or you don't. In my mind once something like a huge boat full of billions of lifeforms is disproved, by sober thought or otherwise, the rest of the book is suspect at best. It's that simple. You can try to explain it away as olden times metaphorics but generally we find that those speaking the truth can do so simply.

    You can quote bible paragrphs all day long but when they say God did this, Jesus levitated here or Bob said that God said that something is something....none of it is provable or even arguable as it's only source is this one book. I'd argue that one source of data would be unacceptable in most other situations, by folks on both side of the theological battlefield.

    While humans are far from understanding everything there is to know about the physical environment of the universe, if I wanted to disprove the Big Bang (using a scientific argument) I would have thousands upon thousands of per-reviewed original research papers/articles to look over.
  10. #750  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Since I'm the OP, I'm willing to either continue discussions or to "call this done" based on the needs of the group of people reading this thread.
    I vote to leave it open.
    I really appreciate seeing these common misconceptions about Christianity put to rest. You're doing a fantastic job.
    Just call me Berd.
  11. #751  
    Quote Originally Posted by rjwerth View Post
    Ok...I'll bite. Is this: Hidden From History > Home what you are referring to? If so, that web site seems to be run by a bunch of whack-jobs. Do you have a better reference?
    Canadian Mission Boarding Schools.

    Canadian Indian residential school system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  12. #752  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    I feel it's a simple subject more or less. Either you believe in what is written in the bible or you don't. In my mind once something like a huge boat full of billions of lifeforms is disproved, by sober thought or otherwise, the rest of the book is suspect at best. It's that simple. You can try to explain it away as olden times metaphorics but generally we find that those speaking the truth can do so simply.

    You can quote bible paragrphs all day long but when they say God did this, Jesus levitated here or Bob said that God said that something is something....none of it is provable or even arguable as it's only source is this one book. I'd argue that one source of data would be unacceptable in most other situations, by folks on both side of the theological battlefield.

    While humans are far from understanding everything there is to know about the physical environment of the universe, if I wanted to disprove the Big Bang (using a scientific argument) I would have thousands upon thousands of per-reviewed original research papers/articles to look over.
    Mark 10:27 Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God."
    Just call me Berd.
  13.    #753  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    I feel it's a simple subject more or less. Either you believe in what is written in the bible or you don't.
    My point all along was to refute that a belief in a God does not have to be illogical. I'll once more state that you seem to "take it on faith" that your understanding is correct. Even when others have explained their rationale, you haven't seemed to indicate any understanding of others POV. I concluded early on (and shared with you) that I believe you may be invincibly ignorant on matters of faith. I think you should take comfort in this and quit while you are ahead. If you do not, you run the risk that if a God exists, he will hold you accountable.

    charitably yours,
    --
    Bob
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  14. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #754  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    I feel it's a simple subject more or less. Either you believe in what is written in the bible or you don't.
    I think people here have tried to explain to you exactly what that belief isn't accurate--at least as it applies to them. In short--I think you are striving to insist that this is a simple subject. It is clear to me that it is not, and just the elaboration here would seem a strong indicator of that. In short--I disagree with your assessment.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    You can quote bible paragrphs all day long but when they say God did this, Jesus levitated here or Bob said that God said that something is something....none of it is provable or even arguable as it's only source is this one book. I'd argue that one source of data would be unacceptable in most other situations, by folks on both side of the theological battlefield.
    For my part, I don't believe I've quoted the bible once in this entire discussion. It is highly doubtful that much of this is provable, but that's no different from any historical event(s). When you say the only source is "one book"--well, again, how many historical events have 2 or 3 or ten books written independently about them? Also--I think you are making the mistake of thinking that the Bible is "one book" when in fact, it is highly likely (based on scholarly work, not religious claims) that there are at least 2 different Gospel authors, and that's just looking at the Gospels. The Bible is in fact a collection of "books."

    In fact--I think the opposite is true. I think the Bible is held up to more scrutiny than other historical documents, that are readily accepted. That being said--the bible isn't a history textbook. It contains history, and it contains things that aren't historical.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    While humans are far from understanding everything there is to know about the physical environment of the universe, if I wanted to disprove the Big Bang (using a scientific argument) I would have thousands upon thousands of per-reviewed original research papers/articles to look over.
    Yes, physics is well suited to study the physical world. Physics is ill suited to study the non-physical world, and while that might be frustrating if you insist on only that perspective, I'd hope you could accept that others do not share that view (and perhaps you do).

    KAM
  15. #755  
    Yes, Bob (sudoer), like i said earlier; I think you're doing a GREAT job "moderating" your thread.
    While you have your own beliefs, you are understanding and open to other people's views and you allow people to feel comfortable expressing those views.
    You've been extremely professional in your molding of this thread.
    Berd might want to hire you to be the next Pre|C moderator, lol.

    I vote to keep this thread open too.
  16.    #756  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    Berd might want to hire you to be the next Pre|C moderator, lol.
    I will be praying that I'm never asked. I really appreciate the thankless job that our moderators do.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  17. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #757  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Start with the book of Genesis, and then skip directly to the book of John.
    Then follow thru with the other three Gospels. Finish up with the rest of the New Testament.
    Then, when time permits start over and read from cover to cover.
    Actually, I wasn't looking for guidance, but it's appreciated none the less!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  18. #758  
    WOW!!! I am practically half way done with my work day and I still have not caught up to all the posts just from last night and today!
    Soduer,
    I guess the thread hasnt slowed down after all!

    I will be responding hopefully soon with my agnostic thoughts! haha
  19. #759  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Start with the book of Genesis, and then skip directly to the book of John.
    Then follow thru with the other three Gospels. Finish up with the rest of the New Testament.
    Then, when time permits start over and read from cover to cover.
    haha Nice!
  20.    #760  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Start with the book of Genesis, and then skip directly to the book of John.
    Then follow thru with the other three Gospels. Finish up with the rest of the New Testament.
    Then, when time permits start over and read from cover to cover.
    Quote Originally Posted by gsonspre View Post
    haha Nice!
    And if you are lazy like me, just listen to talks on Genesis and Exodus, read and study Mark (the shortest Gospel), then Acts, then 1 Corinthians. This will be enough to convince you of the Bible's basic message or not. It won't be enough to defend you against the likes of people here though! !!!
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!

Posting Permissions