Page 37 of 89 FirstFirst ... 2732333435363738394041424787 ... LastLast
Results 721 to 740 of 1780
  1. Xerlot's Avatar
    Posts
    8 Posts
    Global Posts
    10 Global Posts
    #721  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post

    If you look in the Bible, there are an amazing number of people that God wants his followers to murder. For example, in Exodus 35:2 God lays down this commandment:

    • For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.


    Think about that how many people work on the Sabbath -- all the employees of Wal-Mart, Target, Best Buy, Home Depot, Linnens & things, grocery stores, convenience stores, power plants, airlines, hospitals, emergency services and on and on and on. Don't rabbis, priests and preachers work on the Sabbath? God wants all of them dead.

    Then look at Deut 21:18-21. It says:

    • If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father and mother, who does not heed them when they discipline him, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his town at the gate of that place. They shall say to the elders of his town, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the town shall stone him to death. So you shall purge the evil from your midst; and all Israel will hear, and be afraid.


    That is a whole lot of teenagers that we need to kill.

    Then there is Leviticus 20:13:

    • If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.


    All homosexuals need to be killed.

    What about this:

    • If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbour, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death.


    That's a lot of people who need to be killed.

    In other words, if we actually listened to what God says, we would need to kill at least half of the people in America tomorrow. After all, Isaiah 40:8 says, "The grass withers, the flower fades; but the word of our God will stand for ever." The word of the Lord tells us to kill half of the U.S. population.

    There are two things in this that show you that God is imaginary. First there is the utter stupidity of these verses. Second, there is this fact: If God is an all-powerful being, he would kill them himself. There would be no need for people to do the murdering. These people would already be dead, and Wal-Mart would be closed on the Sabbath through lack of employees.

    Notice that believers completely ignore these parts of the Bible. That is because they know that the verses are insane. By acknowledging that their God is insane, they prove that their God is imaginary.
    What a lot of peaople do not understand is the change that happend with the death of Christ. The laws of the Old Testament were put in the past with the coming of Jesus. Now this is not to say that the rules of the past should not be followed but the consequences have changed. God sent His Son to die on the cross. This forever changed the relationship between man and God. He no longer needs us to sacrifice animals to Him either because He sent the ultimate sacrifice in his Son.
    So to put it in short order the laws of the Old Testament have to be put in context with what God says in the New Testament.
  2. #722  
    Does God exist? Here are six straight-forward reasons to believe that God is really there.

    Does God Exist - Six Reasons to Believe that God is Really There - Existence of God - Proof of God
    Help a guy thats down and out on his luck..
  3. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #723  
    Quote Originally Posted by upperking View Post
    Does God exist? Here are six straight-forward reasons to believe that God is really there.

    Does God Exist - Six Reasons to Believe that God is Really There - Existence of God - Proof of God
    Thanks. I feel much better now about the state of my teeth..... oh, did you write something?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4. #724  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    I will have to research this (or have others explain it to use so we can verify) to be sure exactly what the Bible means in those quotations.
    I'd say given that thousands of years have passed since the bible was published we will never actually know the true meaning of it's passages as intended by the authors. That is, beyond God is real and we should do what it wants.
  5.    #725  
    Let me add one more mention (from my memory) about the first mention of "death" in the Old Testament. In Genesis, in the story of Adam and Eve, God said they were not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, less they die. The serpent told them "dudes, you won't die". Satan makes use of half truths to trick people into doing actions that Satan cannot perform on his own. They didn't "die" after eating the "apple", but they did obtain knowledge of good and evil. They went from living immortal lives in paradise to having a mortal existence on Earth. Assuming the theology behind what God said in this story is correct, it defines death in two ways: physical and spiritual death.

    The Hebrew behind Satan's words to Adam and Eve show the sentence structure as something where Satan wants them to "finish the thought". In other words, it's a veiled threat from Satan. Some see this veiled threat as him literally "threatening to kill them". This Hebrew word we translate as "serpent" or "snake" is more like "dragon". Adam had 3 choices: 1) trust that God would protect them, 2) intervene against the devil's temptation to Eve and stop what was happening, or 3) to do nothing. Adam chose to do nothing. For some reason, all of us find ourselves in this exact same problem every day.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  6.    #726  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    I'd say given that thousands of years have passed since the bible was published we will never actually know the true meaning of it's passages as intended by the authors. That is, beyond God is real and we should do what it wants.
    We have lots of historical writings and debate by members of the early church. This is historical and objective debate. Also any time the Church defends a heresy, the heresy itself is well documented in the defense. I think you are "taking on faith" that we could never know rather than critically looking at whatever clues we have. That seems to go against your stated principles, so you should either change your principles or honestly and methodically evaluate based on known evidence.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  7. #727  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Let me add one more mention (from my memory) about the first mention of "death" in the Old Testament. In Genesis, in the story of Adam and Eve, God said they were not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, less they die. The serpent told them "dudes, you won't die". Satan makes use of half truths to trick people into doing actions that Satan cannot perform on his own. They didn't "die" after eating the "apple", but they did obtain knowledge of good and evil. They went from living immortal lives in paradise to having a mortal existence on Earth. Assuming the theology behind what God said in this story is correct, it defines death in two ways: physical and spiritual death.

    The Hebrew behind Satan's words to Adam and Eve show the sentence structure as something where Satan wants them to "finish the thought". In other words, it's a veiled threat from Satan. Some see this veiled threat as him literally "threatening to kill them". This Hebrew word we translate as "serpent" or "snake" is more like "dragon". Adam had 3 choices: 1) trust that God would protect them, 2) intervene against the devil's temptation to Eve and stop what was happening, or 3) to do nothing. Adam chose to do nothing. For some reason, all of us find ourselves in this exact same problem every day.
    How did anybody know exactly how Satan's sentence was phrased?
    How did anybody know exactly how Adam and Eve reacted?
    Nobody else was around to be a stenographer.

    EDIT:
    Nevermind. I already know what answers i will get to this question.

    Carry on......
    Last edited by dbdoinit; 02/23/2010 at 12:03 PM.
  8.    #728  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    How did anybody know exactly how Satan's sentence was phrased?
    How did anybody know exactly how Adam and Eve reacted?
    Nobody else was around to be a stenographer.
    Yoda has taught you well !!!

    Some Christians (in fact, almost all Christians universally until the 1900's) do not state that all of the Bible is to be taken literally. This story is written as God's explanation of our purpose here on Earth, why he created us, and similar concepts. If this is too hard for you, the Catholic Church does this for you. If you blindly follow the Church's teachings, you don't have to worry about "the Bible". In practice, many Catholics have followed this practice to the point that they can follow rules but that they don't really "know God". That's why we have all these Protestant denominations - because they're better Christians than we Catholics are. They're "more aware" of Jesus words and apply their own critical thinking skills as best as they can. They don't believe that God left a single Church of chosen Apostles and their successors in charge of his church. The men in the Church got cocky and out of touch with "God's message" (at least according to the Protestants) and they needed to reform our church.

    I pray for Christian unity because I think I'm in the "right Church" with some of the "wrong people". I'd very much like to see a time when we each respect and trust God and his Holy Spirit to guide the Church and we eliminate all the confusion which caused you to raise this question in the first place.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  9.    #729  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    Nevermind. I already know what answers i will get to this question.

    Carry on......
    I saw your "EDIT" after completing my post. How close was my answer to the one you expected? (Just curious.)
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  10. #730  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Yoda has taught you well !!!

    Some Christians (in fact, almost all Christians universally until the 1900's) do not state that all of the Bible is to be taken literally. This story is written as God's explanation of our purpose here on Earth, why he created us, and similar concepts. If this is too hard for you, the Catholic Church does this for you. If you blindly follow the Church's teachings, you don't have to worry about "the Bible". In practice, many Catholics have followed this practice to the point that they can follow rules but that they don't really "know God". That's why we have all these Protestant denominations - because they're better Christians than we Catholics are. They're "more aware" of Jesus words and apply their own critical thinking skills as best as they can. They don't believe that God left a single Church of chosen Apostles and their successors in charge of his church. The men in the Church got cocky and out of touch with "God's message" (at least according to the Protestants) and they needed to reform our church.

    I pray for Christian unity because I think I'm in the "right Church" with some of the "wrong people". I'd very much like to see a time when we each respect and trust God and his Holy Spirit to guide the Church and we eliminate all the confusion which caused you to raise this question in the first place.
    Well, that's a better answer than i was expecting. Fair enough.
  11. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #731  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Yoda has taught you well !!!

    Some Christians (in fact, almost all Christians universally until the 1900's) do not state that all of the Bible is to be taken literally. This story is written as God's explanation of our purpose here on Earth, why he created us, and similar concepts. If this is too hard for you, the Catholic Church does this for you. If you blindly follow the Church's teachings, you don't have to worry about "the Bible". In practice, many Catholics have followed this practice to the point that they can follow rules but that they don't really "know God". That's why we have all these Protestant denominations - because they're better Christians than we Catholics are. They're "more aware" of Jesus words and apply their own critical thinking skills as best as they can. They don't believe that God left a single Church of chosen Apostles and their successors in charge of his church. The men in the Church got cocky and out of touch with "God's message" (at least according to the Protestants) and they needed to reform our church.

    I pray for Christian unity because I think I'm in the "right Church" with some of the "wrong people". I'd very much like to see a time when we each respect and trust God and his Holy Spirit to guide the Church and we eliminate all the confusion which caused you to raise this question in the first place.
    I'm not a Christian, but if I remember correctly, Christianity as about salvation through faith, not through works. So Protestants aren't necessarily "better Christians" than Catholics because of thier "works", e.g., effort put forth to better understand the religion. In fact, if someone comes to Jesus, so to speak, moments before death.... they're just the same as all other Christians - saved. Did I get that right?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  12. #732  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    I saw your "EDIT" after completing my post. How close was my answer to the one you expected? (Just curious.)
    I thought the response would be:
    Because that's what God told the authors of the bible to write.
  13. #733  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Some Christians (in fact, almost all Christians universally until the 1900's) do not state that all of the Bible is to be taken literally....
    If you don't take it literally (or close) then it means whatever you want it to mean and therefor means nothing at all.
  14. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #734  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    KAM:

    In general, wouldn't you agree that the U.S. is considered a Christian nation? Remember the Constitution?
    Wouldn't you agree that countries such as Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen etc. are considered Islamic countries?
    Hence the religious differences angle.
    Undoubtedly, Christianity is the predominant Religion amongst Americans.
    Yes, I do in fact remember the Constitution.
    I'm not sure of exactly what the official status is in these various countries (some are "the Islamic Republic of..." for example).
    I would not claim that Religious views have no effect, but in the specific cases I had responded to, I think those were political issues.

    Iran isn't arguing theology with us for example, although many in Iran would, and Iran's politics and religion are highly intertwined. Iran and Saudi Arabia aren't exactly friends either...of course Iran probably has few Friends except amongst other enemies of America.

    My overall point...it seems to me people are quick to highlight where Religion is involved, proclaiming that is a Religious issue--Religious War, Deaths due to Religion. I'm pointing out that I think this is misleading in many cases. Even the Inquisition--the poster child of those who point to Religious wrongdoing was a highly political matter. Religion was involved, but it wasn't an exclusively religious issue. The whole thing is made really muddy by the fact that the secular and religious elements of society had different degrees of integration throughout time and differing between nations.

    KAM
  15. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #735  
    Quote Originally Posted by joshaccount View Post
    How do you get my individual little quotes separated like that with your responses in between? Obviously I'm a newbie and would love to know the little secret that everyone else already knows...
    Well, I do it by copying the Code from one to the next and closing each section with a 'QUOTE' surrounded by brackets. I think there is a way to multi-quote as well.

    KAM
  16. #736  
    The atrocities committed against the First Nations of Canada in the name of the Catholic Church Missions are good proof that there is no God or at least not one who "loves" all of man kind. Atrocities authorized by the Pope, a high ranking Christan leader.
  17.    #737  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I'm not a Christian, but if I remember correctly, Christianity as about salvation through faith, not through works. So Protestants aren't necessarily "better Christians" than Catholics because of thier "works", e.g., effort put forth to better understand the religion. In fact, if someone comes to Jesus, so to speak, moments before death.... they're just the same as all other Christians - saved. Did I get that right?
    Both Catholics and Protestants believe that salvation is not through "works alone". Protestants will tell you it is through "faith alone" (and they are close to the concept that both their and our Bibles teach). The problem is that the only place in the Bible that actually teaches on this specific issue (James 2:24) says:
    20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,"[e] and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
    The New Testament book of Romans teaches around Chapter 8 and onward what a Christian (who has been "saved")'s life is supposed to be like. Christians possessing God's saving power will have "works" that can be evaluated at the time of final judgment (in the end times). I've seen this concept described in both the Gospel of Mark and the Book of Romans. I'm sure it's present in more places too. Here's an article from the "Coming Home Network" that describes much of this better than I can.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  18. #738  
    Works don't gain one salvation. It isn't earned - It's a gift.
    But if there aren't works giving evidence of faith, the faith is dead.
    Just call me Berd.
  19. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #739  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    If you don't take it literally (or close) then it means whatever you want it to mean and therefor means nothing at all.
    You seem to be determined to keep making these simplistic declarations, depending highly on refusal to see any nuance in anything being discussed.

    People such as Sudoer are taking a lot of time explaining in detail many of these issues, that I'm sure they are assuming you are sincerely addressing. I must admit that I am unsure of your sincerity. I say that because things are being explained in quite a lot of detail that would allow you to understand the perspective of others, yet are seemingly ignoring all of that and just making simplistic declarations.

    It's interesting that you are insisting on these absolutist declarations--almost to the degree where I think you enjoying some personal joke at the expense of others who are engaging in sincere discussion.
    Perhaps you are engaging in some mockery based on your perception that Religious believers are absolutist zealots who simply cannot consider other ideas.
    Perhaps you are being completely sincere, and you simply do not recognize the complexity of issues involving religion.
    Now, I really don't know what your motivation is, or what your goals are here, and I'm not trying to label you one way or the other, but I am curious, because you really don't seem to have much interest at all towards learning anything or even really listening to others views. If I'm wrong, and this is simply how you post, then I apologize for any inferred criticism.

    KAM
  20.    #740  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    If you don't take it literally (or close) then it means whatever you want it to mean and therefore means nothing at all.
    First, you have seen problems with taking what the Bible says literally (and you've used this in arguments to poke holes in the Bible).

    I posted how the Church teaches that the Bible is to be read a while back in this thread for Bujin. (I think it was the last post I had made to him, and he has not yet responded to any of my comments since that post.) Briefly summarizing: It's entirely clear (in fact dbd 's response supports) that if noone was around to "report the details of God and Satan's conversations with Adam and Eve, that these conversations were either handed on from generation to generation (possible/doable, as genealogical lineage is traced) or the theological meaning was inspired by God in the human writers of Genesis. If the Bible is the inerrant word of God, simple logic make it clear that the intended "truth" of this story is theological.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!

Posting Permissions