Page 32 of 89 FirstFirst ... 2227282930313233343536374282 ... LastLast
Results 621 to 640 of 1780
  1. #621  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I guess I'm asking.... why worry about proving history or events in order to prove the existence of God, when the evidence that He exists is the fact that you're here trying to answer the question? Kind of a paradox, ain't it?
    If it was evidence, then it would be beyond any doubt, which is hardly the case.
  2. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #622  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    No, the part that came after.
    Ahh, the resurrection. That was just a handful of followers.... a few women noticed his tomb was empty, and John and Mary I think? Not to be a stickler, but I don't think that rises to "500".
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  3. Xerlot's Avatar
    Posts
    8 Posts
    Global Posts
    10 Global Posts
    #623  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Please note that I did not say whether or not I personally believe in God. Only that proving an event occured or that someone existing as stated in the text of the Bible, does not "prove" the existence of God.

    I believe that simply because I am here, there is a God. But that's my personal belief, and based on my own reasoning. Just as you've based your beliefs on your own reasoning.

    So both of us apparently believe in God, Xerlot. I haven't said anything that disproves or attempts to disprove Christianity. Just stating a simple truth.
    Sorry I looked at my post and it does seem combative and that is not the way I wanted to come across. I just have a hard time with groups of people putting down the text in the Bible as nothing more than "stories" The Bible is as acurate of a representation of the life in those times as any other manuscript of it's time. We have actual manuscripts that date within 600 years of that time. Closer than any other found to date.
  4. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #624  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    If it was evidence, then it would be beyond any doubt, which is hardly the case.
    What? You don't exist?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  5. groovy's Avatar
    Posts
    941 Posts
    Global Posts
    955 Global Posts
    #625  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsonspre View Post
    This is one of the problems with historical facts based on a writing... 500 people may have seen something but it was only written by a select few... going back to crime scene phenomina, 500 people can all see the same thing but it is interpreted differently by each person. And thats human nature "the telephone game". Instead of trying to prove that Jesus rose from the grave something completely unprovable today, proof of ancient history is solidified by physical evidence (outside of writings), and if things can be proved w/ physical findings it would make the more "unbelievable" things believable
    So what does that say about every piece of history that was recorded only in writing?
  6. #626  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I guess I'm asking.... why worry about proving history or events in order to prove the existence of God, when the evidence that He exists is the fact that you're here trying to answer the question? Kind of a paradox, ain't it?
    I get what your asking, but my being has more scientific support then religious phenomenon.
  7. Xerlot's Avatar
    Posts
    8 Posts
    Global Posts
    10 Global Posts
    #627  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsonspre View Post
    I get what your asking, but my being has more scientific support then religious phenomenon.
    Really I have got to hear this what "Facts" not theory can you give me in the scientific realm.
  8. #628  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    What? You don't exist?
    Just the fact that I exist does not (to me, anyway) prove there is a God. If it was proof, then (and i repeat) it would be beyond any doubt.
    Are you telling me that there is no doubt about any of this?
    If there isn't, what do you have to say to all the people who've died in religious wars throughout the history of the Earth?
  9. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #629  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsonspre View Post
    I get what your asking, but my being has more scientific support then religious phenomenon.
    I agree completely. And science hasn't gotten to the point of explaining the "first cause", aka, God. I wasn't talking based on Theology. I was talking based on Reason. It's really simple reasoning. If I exist, something or someone must have started this whole enchilada....
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  10. #630  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    So what does that say about every piece of history that was recorded only in writing?
    what it means to me is that we can not know the entire truth about it, unless we can scientifically piece it together through physical evidence.
    One of the biggest reasons why Im not a Scientologist. I never saw (and they never brought forward) any interplanetary matter or material proving that we are from an alien planet...
    May be a bad example I dont know enough about Scientology except it seems like a scary cult...

    I know that someone crossed the atlantic a long time ago, not because it was written in my elementary book (which said pilgrims and indians were buddies) but because of our gene pool in north america and the merge of technological advancement in a given time frame that was not seen in this continent but was seen in others
  11. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #631  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    Just the fact that I exist does not (to me, anyway) prove there is a God. If it was proof, then (and i repeat) it would be beyond any doubt.
    Are you telling me that there is no doubt about any of this?
    If there isn't, what do you have to say to all the people who've died in religious wars throughout the history of the Earth?
    It's not really about religion. You're talking about a specific attribute of God, e.g., whether or not he's engaged with us personally. I say He got the ball rolling, and His gift to us was Reason. "We hold these truths to be self-evident." Sound familiar?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  12. #632  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Well, if the Bible is accurate then the biggest miracle, the one upon which the faith hinges, was actually witnessed by over 500 people, most of whom were still alive at the time of its writing.
    ....far more than 500 people swear they have seen UFO's, dead Elvis, Aliens, Ghosts. Most of us would agree that's all rubbish.

    R
  13. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #633  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    ....far more than 500 people swear they have seen UFO's, dead Elvis, Aliens, Ghosts. Most of us would agree that's all rubbish.

    R
    Actually 500 people may have seen Jesus crucified. What the religion hinges on is the resurrection and ascention... which wasn't witnessed, but surmissed by his followers.... not witnessed by 500.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  14. groovy's Avatar
    Posts
    941 Posts
    Global Posts
    955 Global Posts
    #634  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Ahh, the resurrection. That was just a handful of followers.... a few women noticed his tomb was empty, and John and Mary I think? Not to be a stickler, but I don't think that rises to "500".
    1 Cor. 15:6.
    Last edited by groovy; 02/22/2010 at 08:20 PM.
  15. #635  
    I know this isnt the exact word used in the bible (i think) but heres why I have problems believing all facts in the bible

    sur·mise (sr-mz)
    v. sur·mised, sur·mis·ing, sur·mis·es
    v.tr.
    To infer (something) without sufficiently conclusive evidence.
    v.intr.
    To make a guess or conjecture.
    n.
    An idea or opinion based on insufficiently conclusive evidence; a conjecture.
  16. #636  
    If God exists, why does he make his presence so subjective and open for debate?
    Why doesnt he send Jesus down every 500 years.
    Is Jesus in heaven and would we be able to meet him if he is?
    What about God is he there visibly or is he like a CEO of a major company and all you can do is hear his voice?
  17. Xerlot's Avatar
    Posts
    8 Posts
    Global Posts
    10 Global Posts
    #637  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsonspre View Post
    If God exists, why does he make his presence so subjective and open for debate?
    Why doesnt he send Jesus down every 500 years.
    Is Jesus in heaven and would we be able to meet him if he is?
    What about God is he there visibly or is he like a CEO of a major company and all you can do is hear his voice?

    Well God did not send his Jesus to be proof of His existace. He sent Him to die for our sins, and reconcile us. The value of faith would be lowered if it took no faith to believe in God. Faith is important. Without faith there is no free will. Who would not chose God if he showed himself to us. God wants faithful believers to do His mighty work.
  18. #638  
    faith can go a long way but proof can go further.
    If he would come down I would be a faithful follower, but it wouldnt make me a better person then I already am!
    It would also prevent many religious wars! Heck the Twin Towers would still be standing if God presented himself, not to interfere but to debunk radical religious activists and sacrifices. I personally cant see how not presenting himself is for the better of mankind?
    If a cop was standing outside of a meter I would be sure to put plenty of change in, but if ones not, i may run into the store for 1 minute without paying for 15.
  19. #639  
    What about in heaven, is there any "writings" on how He presents himself in heaven?
    Is He a visual entity?
  20. Xerlot's Avatar
    Posts
    8 Posts
    Global Posts
    10 Global Posts
    #640  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsonspre View Post
    faith can go a long way but proof can go further.
    If he would come down I would be a faithful follower, but it wouldnt make me a better person then I already am!
    It would also prevent many religious wars! Heck the Twin Towers would still be standing if God presented himself, not to interfere but to debunk radical religious activists and sacrifices. I personally cant see how not presenting himself is for the better of mankind?
    If a cop was standing outside of a meter I would be sure to put plenty of change in, but if ones not, i may run into the store for 1 minute without paying for 15.
    Shoot I totally agree with you but you then lose your free will. If a cop is standing by the meter who in their right mind would not put the money in. You just lost your choice of putting money in or not. Same goes with God. He made us to have free will if He was constantly showing Himself we would lose the choice. You would have to be a madman not to follow Him. God does not want us to be mindless zombies following His every command. He allows us to make our own mistakes but is always waiting for us to come back. Like a good parent would do.
    Last edited by Xerlot; 02/22/2010 at 05:53 PM. Reason: Can't spell for crap

Posting Permissions